BUTANE EXTRACTION AND RECOVERY SYSTEM

Gray Wolf · Feb 15, 2011

dope_roor said:
cool i think what i was referring to is the refrigerant recovery system as for the oilless pump i think your vacuum pump is not oil less but the refrigerant recovery system pump is?

Correct. I just ecavuate air and moisture with the AC vacuum pump, but butane with the oil free refrigerant recovery machine.

Butane dilutes the crank case lubricant of non-oil free compressors, plus even with an oil separator, the lubricant gets mixed with the butane and meds.

Lapides · Feb 23, 2011

I am really loving this thread. I stumbled upon the Tasmisium extractor a few days ago and my mind has been reeling, trying to come up with a DIY model. I appreciate your work! Subscribed.

Gray Wolf · Mar 1, 2011

!#$%^&*())(*&^%$#@ ah shit, woops!

Hi ya'll!

As is typical with new processes, two steps forward shaking out and one step backward. Significant progress was made, but I wiped out the refrigerant recovery pump and am investigating why with the manufacture and a refrigeration engineering forum.

First obstacle was that the factory miss-installed one of the control valve knobs (clocking), which I had to involve the factory customer service engineer in to sort out.

On my own side, if you compare plumbing pictures, you will see that I replaced the check valves with full port stainless ball valves to reduce pumping time and I gutted all the hoses of Schrader depressors and check valves. Still working on a larger shorter connection from the pot to the pump, when the pump died.

Easy to rebuild in less than an hour, but I want to make sure all components are compatible with R-600 refrigerant.

After my other efforts and and four dry cleaning runs with butane only, I ran a column load of fan leaves to test out the system and further "temper and clean the inside of the system." Despite my best cleaning efforts, and the four previous flushes, I could still taste the new system, vis a vis my normal extraction using conventional columns.

I will look at electro polishing the inside of the Schedule 10 304SS column to further clean it and aid in keeping it clean of future residue.

Fortunately, and by plan, I use fan leaves for topical, so flavor is not an issue, unless someone is seriously kissing my patient all over, in which case they might not even notice the subtle background flavor.

I used a five minute soak at ambient temperatures, and because N-butanes polarity is not zero, I extracted more plant waxes than a simple flow through column, and in finishing off the extract I noticed the similarities of this extract to an alcohol extract that gets similarly frothy toward the end of the purge. I haven't cleaned it up yet, so I don't have a feel yet for how much drop out there might be.

Clearly I need to refine the process to compete for flavor and other qualities with a simple well executed column extraction.

At Foaf's suggestion, I picked up a refrigerant recovery scale, to keep track of where I am at. I set the butane recovery tank on its platform and zeroed out the tare, before transferring butane to the column. Since the system was already under vacuum when I opened the transfer valve, transfer of 800 grams of butane took less than a minute.

I calculated that at the specific gravity of butane, the column actually holds about 792 grams of liquid butane if it were empty. Since the column was packed, the excess butane just flows through the column to the collection vessel, to be vacuumed off, so I used 800 grams as a starting process parameter.

In this case, since my pump died before the process was complete, I just vented off the excess gaseous butane and poured the remaining butane solution into a bain marie pot and flashed off the rest using conventional methods.

More on recovery without resorting to conventional methods, after more sorting out.

While this process didn't shine at the first throwing of the switch, I've designed and implemented new systems for my professional lifetime prior to retirement, and none of them came on line without opportunities for improvement, soooo, that is what I will continue doing to this system.

The process is relatively simple, giving me great faith in the possibilities, but if it were reeeal simple, we would not be discussing developing it further, would we? Hee, hee, hee................

Note in this trial I was simply switching hoses and did not assemble the system as a complete system.

Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Gray Wolf · Mar 1, 2011

Just another quick note about the first extraction from fan leaves.

Check out the pictures, as the camera saw them. I was unable to see through the blue mass shown by the camera with backlighting, but it saw the light coming through as blue at ISO 1600 equivalent film speed.

What an interesting development and wondering what it might have to do with anthocyanin's, which research says can be blue, as well as yellow to red amber, depending on Ph.

Could also be influenced by the spectrum from the Quartz Halide lamp I use for reflected neutral backlighting, but this is the first time that I have had such a reaction or any hint of blue.

Similarly, I can see a slight electric green hue to the oil sloshed up on the side of the beaker, but the camera sees only gold.

Haven't tested it beyond tongue taste yet and ya'll should know that I am slightly red green color blind, which modifies the color spectrum that I see...............

EclipseFour20 · Mar 1, 2011

Hmmm....anyway to incorporate an activated charcoal filter? It seems to be a simple but affordable technique to generate super clarified/stabilized bho.

medicalgreen · Mar 1, 2011

EclipseFour20 said:
Hmmm....anyway to incorporate an activated charcoal filter? It seems to be a simple but affordable technique to generate super clarified/stabilized bho.

I'm not convinced activated charcoal will help much, and i'm under the impression, it can alter the flavor of the end product, as well as removing some desirable attributes.

If anyone cares to set the record straight on this, I'm sure many would appreciate it.

007. · Mar 1, 2011

I'm interested in activated carbon as well. I believe the boiling point for butane is around the 0 C, so in the frigid Canadian winter its no problem to handle the butane outdoors and work with it. I'm also thinking about using a separation funnel to recover some butane.

I'm not quite smart enough to keep up with or even understand your unit GrayWolf. Looks pretty incredible though!

jump117 · Mar 1, 2011

Gray Wolf said:
the blue mass shown by the camera with backlighting,

any hint of blue.

Hey Gray Wolf ! Remembered Dominican blue amber, which was mentioned in the discussion "Theory about oil color and density",
such a funny things!

dextr0 said:
the next two are courtesy of Jump:

Gray Wolf · Mar 1, 2011

jump117 said:
Hey Gray Wolf ! Remembered Dominican blue amber, which was mentioned in the discussion "Theory about oil color and density",
such a funny things!

Yeah, cool stuff brother Jump! Light shining through blue amber is amber and light shining on it is reflected as blue.

This stuff is just the opposite. Light shining through shows up as blue and reflected light is dark amber. It also doesn't fluoresce under ultra violet light like the blue amber does.

Gray Wolf · Mar 1, 2011

EclipseFour20 said:
Hmmm....anyway to incorporate an activated charcoal filter? It seems to be a simple but affordable technique to generate super clarified/stabilized bho.

Yup, plenty of room for filters, but there are probably easier ways to remove most of the stuff with out paying losses to the charcoal gods.

I will have a better idea after I play with it some and find out what all I have extracted.

I think I will do a hexane and salt water wash to see what drops out for starters. I suspect I picked up additional waxes, based on the frothy appearance during final purge.

I also picked up slightly more chlorophyll than my normal flow through process, because butane has low polarity, but it isn't zero.

More will be revealed................... Hee, hee, hee, snicker, snark, snort!!!!!

eloquentsoution · Mar 2, 2011

please remove post

EclipseFour20 · Mar 2, 2011

medicalgreen said:
I'm not convinced activated charcoal will help much, and i'm under the impression, it can alter the flavor of the end product, as well as removing some desirable attributes.

If anyone cares to set the record straight on this, I'm sure many would appreciate it.

Not that I believe everything I read--but it was determined in a recent patent that activated charcoal can increase the resistance to thermal degradation of THC & CBN in oil by 50%.

Check out columns 23-25 at http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7344736.pdf

"Investigation of the Stabilisation of Botanical Drug Substance (BDS) by Partial Purification Using Activated Charcoal

Results from stability studies on THC formulations indicate that THC in the form of BDS is unstable even at storage temperatures as low as 5° C. This contrasts with the behaviour of the purified THC (Dronabinol USP) in Marinol soft gel capsules, for which a shelf life of 2 years at cool ambient temperature is accepted. It should also be noted that the shelf life of THC standard solutions in methanol supplied by Sigma-Aldrich is claimed to be 4 years when stored refrigerated and protected from light.

This apparent discrepancy between the stability of BDS (THC) and purified THC prompted speculation that some component of BDS was destabilising the principal cannabinoid.

A solution to this problem would be to purify the BDS (THC) to yield high purity, preferably crystalline cannabinoid. However, the additional processing costs incurred on transforming BDS to pure cannabinoid would substantially increase the cost of finished pharmaceutical products incorporating the cannabinoid.

Hence, the applicant sought to develop a simple purification step which would produce BDS with enhanced stability but which did not increase processing costs to a prohibitive extent.

The applicant has determined that a charcoal clean-up step may be conveniently carried out in close conjunction with the “winterisation” process by passing the ethanolic winterisation solution through a filter bed to remove precipitated waxes and then directly through a charcoal column in a single step and that the use of activated charcoal significantly improves shelf life. "

The patent describes their procedure in good detail.

Yeah--I was with you...who knew that simple activated charcoal could accomplish a "complex task".

Rickys bong · Mar 4, 2011

I can possibly shed some light on your pump failure cause.

I'm on my fourth iteration of a closed loop system so I'll help with your pump problems but I can't share details of my systems.

I started with a Promax RG5000 which worked for about 12 hours and abruptly seized.

A post mortem revealed the cause, and since the design is similar to the Reftec I'm guessing you may have the same problem.

The Promax pump uses a design where the crankcase is pressurized from the pump outlet to balance the pressure across the piston rings. This means the crankcase and bearings are pressurized with whatever gas you are pumping. The crankshaft bearings are permanently lubed and sealed.
However, the seals are not perfect and gas can get into the bearings. What seemed to happen with my pump is that gaseous butane diluted the grease in the bearing and pushed it out causing it to seize.

The crankcase and the pump gas flow are connected in the reftec design so I'm guessing the butane washed out your bearings somehow. Look at the parts diagram here:
http://www.centurytool.net/RefTec_MVS115F_MicroVac_Recovery_Unit_Parts_s/22010.htm

There's a little port to he right of the piston bore that pressurizes the crankcase, that's probably your problem.
Most refrigerant systems always have oil circulating in them and I suspect most pumps are not designed to pump "dry" refrigerants continuously.

But!!! One design I have grown to love has overcome this problem.

The Appion G5 has the crankcase completely isolated from the gas flow so the gas being pumped can't affect the bearings.
I've got over 70 hours on this pump now without any problem, I'd recommend splurging for a new pump.

http://www.centurytool.net/G5_Twin_Appion_Oilless_Recovery_Unit_p/g5-twin.htm

X

Gray Wolf · Mar 4, 2011

Rickys bong said:
I can possibly shed some light on your pump failure cause.

I'm on my fourth iteration of a closed loop system so I'll help with your pump problems but I can't share details of my systems.

I started with a Promax RG5000 which worked for about 12 hours and abruptly seized.

A post mortem revealed the cause, and since the design is similar to the Reftec I'm guessing you may have the same problem.

The Promax pump uses a design where the crankcase is pressurized from the pump outlet to balance the pressure across the piston rings. This means the crankcase and bearings are pressurized with whatever gas you are pumping. The crankshaft bearings are permanently lubed and sealed.
However, the seals are not perfect and gas can get into the bearings. What seemed to happen with my pump is that gaseous butane diluted the grease in the bearing and pushed it out causing it to seize.

The crankcase and the pump gas flow are connected in the reftec design so I'm guessing the butane washed out your bearings somehow. Look at the parts diagram here:
http://www.centurytool.net/RefTec_MVS115F_MicroVac_Recovery_Unit_Parts_s/22010.htm

There's a little port to he right of the piston bore that pressurizes the crankcase, that's probably your problem.
Most refrigerant systems always have oil circulating in them and I suspect most pumps are not designed to pump "dry" refrigerants continuously.

But!!! One design I have grown to love has overcome this problem.

The Appion G5 has the crankcase completely isolated from the gas flow so the gas being pumped can't affect the bearings.
I've got over 70 hours on this pump now without any problem, I'd recommend splurging for a new pump.

http://www.centurytool.net/G5_Twin_Appion_Oilless_Recovery_Unit_p/g5-twin.htm

X

Thanks brother RB! Looks slick! I will check them out further!

foaf · Mar 20, 2011

good work Gray Wolf. thanks for sharing. I love the integral column/recovery tank. I want a column too, but I havent done whats needed, a long narrow column like you have.

I haven't changed my setup, except that I now put the evaportaing vessel in a hot water bath, and the recovery tank in an ice bath. It halves the recovery time.

Anything · Mar 20, 2011

Just a question...but why the use of the refrig unit? Why not do something like they have with the http://www.tamisiumextractors.com/ setups?

I'm playing with the idea of building something similar to theirs, and wondering why you guys have gone such a different route.

Gray Wolf · Mar 20, 2011

Anything said:
Just a question...but why the use of the refrig unit? Why not do something like they have with the http://www.tamisiumextractors.com/ setups?

I'm playing with the idea of building something similar to theirs, and wondering why you guys have gone such a different route.

Speed.

Gray Wolf · Mar 20, 2011

foaf said:
good work Gray Wolf. thanks for sharing. I love the integral column/recovery tank. I want a column too, but I havent done whats needed, a long narrow column like you have.

I haven't changed my setup, except that I now put the evaportaing vessel in a hot water bath, and the recovery tank in an ice bath. It halves the recovery time.

Thanks for showing the way bro!

Trichgnomes · Mar 20, 2011

Gray Wolf said:
Speed.

Regarding the Tamisium, IIRC, one can choose to use pumps to speed up recovery time.

I guess the benefit of not using a pump is for folks doing small runs, are not in a hurry, or people in remote areas where electricity usage is an issue.

The fact that you could use the Tamisium with no power is pretty cool. Theoretically, if the space was safe, one could have a guerilla grow in which all of the drying and processing is done on site, and the only thing that you bring back is the golden resin.

Gray Wolf · Mar 21, 2011

Trichgnomes said:
Regarding the Tamisium, IIRC, one can choose to use pumps to speed up recovery time.

I guess the benefit of not using a pump is for folks doing small runs, are not in a hurry, or people in remote areas where electricity usage is an issue.

The fact that you could use the Tamisium with no power is pretty cool. Theoretically, if the space was safe, one could have a guerilla grow in which all of the drying and processing is done on site, and the only thing that you bring back is the golden resin.

What does a Tamisium system sell for with a pumping system?

BUTANE EXTRACTION AND RECOVERY SYSTEM

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