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Bernie Sanders calls for an end to marijuana prohibition
- Thread starter Cur
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creativeprocess
Member
I know you did not ask me, but Socialism is inherently wrong because all the resources that are supposed to be justly distributed, seem to come from a magical place that no socialist can explain
However, if we are honest to ourselves, we know these resources come about through hard work, and the "socialist" in charge will take by force (aka social programs) and re-distribute to whomever backs him up, and those who don't are persecuted basically.
Just look at what happens anywhere where socialists have taken control...
Peace
creativeprocess
Member
Bill Maher, who interviewed Sanders on HBO’s “Real Time”, pressed Sanders on the point.I know you did not ask me, but Socialism is inherently wrong because all the resources that are supposed to be justly distributed, seem to come from a magical place that no socialist can explain
“Now this has been studied, the amount of tax revenue we would get just from taxing the people who I think your fans think you’re talking about -- the people who own a yacht -- does not come close to covering what you want to pay for,” Maher argued.
“Not true, not true,” the Democratic presidential hopeful responded.
Sanders then went through the largest items on his policy agenda -- Medicare for all; free college tuition at public institutions; higher Social Security benefits; and free child care -- and explained how each of them would only require asking more of wealthy Americans. [...]
The top 1 percent is made up of 1.13 million households with average incomes of $2.1 million a year, according to the Tax Policy Center. The New York Times estimates that increasing those households’ total tax burden from roughly one-third today to 40 percent would raise an additional $157 billion in revenue per year.
To put that amount in perspective, the Times noted that Sanders’ plan to cover the cost of undergraduate tuition at a public college or university would cost the federal government $47 billion.
Sanders intends to pay for his college plan, however, by taxing financial transactions. He has introduced Social Security legislation that expands benefits and extends the program’s solvency by eliminating the cap on taxable earnings, which currently means millionaires only contribute to the program on the first $118,500 they earn.
The senator told Maher he would pay for child care by closing corporate tax loopholes.
The arithmetic on a single-payer health care system is a little bit trickier. Although Sanders has not yet released a detailed single-payer plan, a similar bill introduced by Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) would be financed in part by payroll taxes on middle-income and wealthy earners.
An analysis of the plan by Gerald Friedman, an economist at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, projects that Conyers’ bill would reduce overall health care costs by $592 billion per year, ultimately saving consumers money.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-tax-the-rich_5622670ae4b0bce34700f168
So he is doing a Chavez move, tried and failed, going after the "evil olygarchs"... Until they freeze their assets and can't tax shit since it is not being moved in any transaction, so cannot tax, so checkmate.
It is so easy to solve problems with money that is not yours...
Who cares about managing the country properly when you think you can just force individuals to pay for your "socialism"
Next...
It is so easy to solve problems with money that is not yours...
Who cares about managing the country properly when you think you can just force individuals to pay for your "socialism"
Next...
The republicans War on Drugs and there mass incarceration over the last 25 years was a lot of fun.
Republican Pot Heads.Haa Haa thats funny
Every Pig I ever new was a Republican.
Now that is funny. But you need to let on to both sides of the story
Not to mention that the war on drugs has lasted through some 2 term democratic presidents and a democratically controlled house and senate too. No change and nothing new there. Hillary is still trying to decide on her stance regarding marijuana. Pelosi and Reid didn't come around publicly until their last election.
Regarding cops. You do know that nearly every major police union votes for and endorses Democratic candidates in nearly every election from local to national. Look it up. Hell Biden has been one of the biggest drug warriors and a huge backer of police and their financing and he's still trying to smooth things over with wanting to roll back mandatory sentencing guidelines with the nations top cop.
The Angel Raich case would have changed mmj laws had the Democratic leaning Supreme court justices not sided against her.
Altho they are getting better and coming around, democrats in general have not been friendly to marijuana or drug laws in the past .
That may soon change as Obama and his justice dept is not backing police depts, which isn't a bad thing. I have a huge dislike for cops.
Think of England, France, Scandinavia...everyone gets taxed a scandalous high %, and everyone has access to social programs.
Now, if you are Bernie and are a sneaky sob, you keep that quiet, and mouth off about taxing only the "evil 1%", because if he says everyone must get taxed the same, he looses the vote of the people that buy into his empty populist promises, no free shit basically.
But there won't be any free shit anyways, only the votes he gets on empty promises...
How can he deliver when he has no real way to take hold of other people's money to give away to his voters?
Magical socialist funds lol
Now, if you are Bernie and are a sneaky sob, you keep that quiet, and mouth off about taxing only the "evil 1%", because if he says everyone must get taxed the same, he looses the vote of the people that buy into his empty populist promises, no free shit basically.
But there won't be any free shit anyways, only the votes he gets on empty promises...
How can he deliver when he has no real way to take hold of other people's money to give away to his voters?
Magical socialist funds lol
Bernie could give me a pound of weed for my vote, I still would never vote for that commie.
creativeprocess
Member
As much as we sit here like chickens bawking our opinions at each other, Bernie has the balls to do something about his opinion. The longest-serving independent in U.S. Congressional history, after settling in Vermont in 1968, Sanders ran unsuccessful third-party campaigns for governor and U.S. senator in the early to mid-1970s. As an independent, he was elected mayor of Burlington, Vermont's most populous city, in 1981. He was reelected three times before being elected to represent Vermont's at-large congressional district in the U.S. House of Representatives in 1990. In 1991, Sanders co-founded the Congressional Progressive Caucus. He served as a congressman for 16 years before being elected to the U.S. Senate in 2006. In 2012, he was reelected by a large margin, capturing almost 71% of the popular vote.
A self-described "democratic socialist", Sanders favors policies similar to those of social democratic parties in Europe, particularly those instituted by the Nordic countries. Sanders is known as a leading progressive voice on issues such as income inequality, universal healthcare, parental leave, climate change, LGBT rights, and campaign finance reform. He rose to national prominence following his 2010 filibuster against the proposed extension of the Bush tax cuts. He is outspoken on civil rights and civil liberties, and has been particularly critical of mass surveillance policies such as the USA PATRIOT Act, the NSA surveillance program,and racial discrimination in the criminal justice system. He has long been critical of U.S. foreign policy, and was an early and outspoken opponent of the Iraq War.
Unlike other presidential candidates, Sanders has stated that he will not pursue funding through a "Super PAC", instead focusing on small individual donations. Sanders' presidential campaign raised $1.5 million within 24 hours of his official announcement. After four days, Sanders' campaign had raised $3 million from small donors, with an average of $43 per donation. On July 2, the campaign announced that it had raised $15 million from 250,000 donors. On September 30, The New York Times reported that Sanders had raised $26 million over the preceding three months, exceeding Barack Obama's pace of fundraising in 2008; the campaign announced that it had reached one million individual donations, becoming the first 2016 candidate to reach that threshold.
Whether or not he gets it this time, "democratic socialism" is the way of the future -- whether we like it or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjviGX8z1aE
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c06xOF4uQ8
A self-described "democratic socialist", Sanders favors policies similar to those of social democratic parties in Europe, particularly those instituted by the Nordic countries. Sanders is known as a leading progressive voice on issues such as income inequality, universal healthcare, parental leave, climate change, LGBT rights, and campaign finance reform. He rose to national prominence following his 2010 filibuster against the proposed extension of the Bush tax cuts. He is outspoken on civil rights and civil liberties, and has been particularly critical of mass surveillance policies such as the USA PATRIOT Act, the NSA surveillance program,and racial discrimination in the criminal justice system. He has long been critical of U.S. foreign policy, and was an early and outspoken opponent of the Iraq War.
Unlike other presidential candidates, Sanders has stated that he will not pursue funding through a "Super PAC", instead focusing on small individual donations. Sanders' presidential campaign raised $1.5 million within 24 hours of his official announcement. After four days, Sanders' campaign had raised $3 million from small donors, with an average of $43 per donation. On July 2, the campaign announced that it had raised $15 million from 250,000 donors. On September 30, The New York Times reported that Sanders had raised $26 million over the preceding three months, exceeding Barack Obama's pace of fundraising in 2008; the campaign announced that it had reached one million individual donations, becoming the first 2016 candidate to reach that threshold.
Whether or not he gets it this time, "democratic socialism" is the way of the future -- whether we like it or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjviGX8z1aE
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c06xOF4uQ8
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Cur
Member
My hippie professor at college would laugh at that... sense I'm not in college, and the only hippies I have had contact with are the very very few who protest whenever I have returned from overseas deployments.
Cur
Member
I know you did not ask me, but Socialism is inherently wrong because all the resources that are supposed to be justly distributed, seem to come from a magical place that no socialist can explain
However, if we are honest to ourselves, we know these resources come about through hard work, and the "socialist" in charge will take by force (aka social programs) and re-distribute to whomever backs him up, and those who don't are persecuted basically.
Just look at what happens anywhere where socialists have taken control...
Peace
I am re-posting this, since it seems you didn't see it or just ignored it earlier in your rush to get in a snide remark about "hippie college professors":
As far as not believing Mr. Sanders will make good on his promises, one has to only look at his voting record, and his history as an activist. He is genuine, and always has been.
Cur
Member
You're making the point against government going against the rules, not against social programs themselves. I agree, they need to keep the funds separate. Most rational people would agree with that. LBJ raided to funds to help pay for the Vietnam War, btw.
But as far as how are those programs working? Idk... did you drop your kids off at school today? If so, you road on roads paid for by taxes, to a school funded by taxes, where your kids will use books paid for by taxes, drink water paid for by taxes, eat food which was at the very least subsidized by taxes, receive medical care provided by taxes (from the school nurse), and be protected by the security guards paid for by... you guessed it... taxes. So, I'd say some of the programs are working pretty ok.
ellyfish;7193960]By "taxing only the "evil 1%""?[/QUOTE]
LOL you always have a great sense of humor, seriously
But seriously, he won't be able to tax them as he claims, the "evil 1%" are not passive and will for sure react to any attempts to single them out and have them fund Bernie's Socialism, like I said, he's not the first to think of it and all that have tried, have failed.
Cur, when you have any real meat to bring to the argument, I'm all ears, we already know you think Bernie is a good guy and a genius, and repeating such ad-nauseum does not change the fact that he is a dinosaur...
Legalization won't come through any promises from socialist that do not understand that he can't just force people to fund his social programs unwillingly...if we lived in an ideal world, the very rich would help out way more than they do without anyone trying to force them, in our actual world however, they will resist and prevail like they have done in every single country that has had a government that has tried.
You need to vote smart, not emotionally attached to impossible ideals.
Be good man
Peace!
[/QUOTE]LOL you always have a great sense of humor, seriously
But seriously, he won't be able to tax them as he claims, the "evil 1%" are not passive and will for sure react to any attempts to single them out and have them fund Bernie's Socialism, like I said, he's not the first to think of it and all that have tried, have failed.
Cur, when you have any real meat to bring to the argument, I'm all ears, we already know you think Bernie is a good guy and a genius, and repeating such ad-nauseum does not change the fact that he is a dinosaur...
Legalization won't come through any promises from socialist that do not understand that he can't just force people to fund his social programs unwillingly...if we lived in an ideal world, the very rich would help out way more than they do without anyone trying to force them, in our actual world however, they will resist and prevail like they have done in every single country that has had a government that has tried.
You need to vote smart, not emotionally attached to impossible ideals.
Be good man
Peace!
Cur
Member
I understand that making assumptions about people you don't know from Adam is standard fare on the internet, but maybe... just maybe... if you look at a logical argument and take it for what it is, you might be able to discern something therein that isn't so easily dismissed by just waving it off?
For my part, I am not a socialist of any type, even a democratic socialist. I am a "classical liberal", which is what eventually gave rise to the libertarian ideology. I have over the years come to accept that taxation is a necessity of modern life and, based on my own moral compass and considering that I come from a family where half of the children earn in excess of six figures due to their own hard work, that the richest of the rich should pay a higher share of taxes than the median or below-median income families. It's just logical.
I also know, since I've had a sibling as well as another very close friend work as a lobbyists on the hill, that not everything proposed will make it through to law. Not even half. So some of his more outrageous ideas would never come to fruition. That was the same reason I was comfortable getting on the band wagon with Ron Paul... a gentleman who is about as far removed from Bernie's democratic socialist agenda as a person can be. I don't vote for party lines, I vote for the individual. And the top of my list isn't the economy, although if an individual has an economic solution that makes sense to me, I weigh it heavily. My number one concerns are individual liberties and what is morally right for a country to do.
And no, legalization won't come from any presidential candidate, or president. But de-scheduling *can*. Once removed from the Controlled Substances List, the states must then criminalize it themselves, instead of parroting the federal law. And thanks to the newest ruling by the supreme court on gay marriage, once the majority of states make it a right to grow and use marijuana, it becomes a right of every citizen across the country. The only way to make it legal across the board without having to go through each state's legislature would be to propose a law in congress that straight-up legalizes possession, cultivation, and use. That isn't going to happen any time in the forseeable future. So yeah, voting a man into office who has promised to de-schedule MJ *and* has a habit of keeping his promises isn't a bad way to go about it.
You want to know about me, to avoid misguided ad-hominem attacks in the future? I'm in the military and have been now for 9 years with two tours to Afghanistan, a registered republican, single, and have lived for a total of 1 year as a civilian and 2 years as a military member in a European "socialist" country, as well as traveling when I can to get out and see how the rest of the world lives. I am from a small city in the deep south, love my guns, and am religious (Christian, fwiw). I believe in the right to bear arms, the right to love who you love, and the right to grown your own plants and use them any way you see fit. I believe in disciplining children, the authority of those appointed above you, and that the most important role government can play is the physical security of its citizens and protecting the rights of those citizens.
Hello Cur,
We are gonna have to agree to disagree on Bernie.
If you really took offense from my college and hippy professor comment, I do apologize, I was just trying to be funny, sorry!
You are obviously free to vote for whomever you want, just don't get heart-broken when those delivering populist speeches don't do anything and then try to blame others for their failed policies.
real world examples of socialist programs that have tried to bite chunks off the richer have failed, like in Venezuela, where the Socialist then proceeded expropriate assets using the army when the richer found new loop-holes not to be extra-taxed. etc...
And like I already explained, in Europe, everyone gets taxed, not just the rich, big difference; if you just target one sector to give free stuff to other sector, only creates dependence and resentment, it further divides and rules, it sets up an us vs. them atmosphere, and the politrickians feed the poor populism and in turn they get votes; it is so transparent it is crazy people don't see through it...
We are gonna have to agree to disagree on Bernie.
If you really took offense from my college and hippy professor comment, I do apologize, I was just trying to be funny, sorry!
You are obviously free to vote for whomever you want, just don't get heart-broken when those delivering populist speeches don't do anything and then try to blame others for their failed policies.
real world examples of socialist programs that have tried to bite chunks off the richer have failed, like in Venezuela, where the Socialist then proceeded expropriate assets using the army when the richer found new loop-holes not to be extra-taxed. etc...
And like I already explained, in Europe, everyone gets taxed, not just the rich, big difference; if you just target one sector to give free stuff to other sector, only creates dependence and resentment, it further divides and rules, it sets up an us vs. them atmosphere, and the politrickians feed the poor populism and in turn they get votes; it is so transparent it is crazy people don't see through it...
To be fair Bernie would likely just be more Obama. Which is shit as far as I am concerned. Hillary too.
I support single payer healthcare but Obama forcing this fucked up thing he created is wrong. Less involvement with being the world police force is another Dem ideal I kinda favor. They ought to pay us or something you would think?
One thing is for sure, if the Repubs can not win this election they are finished. Hillary has the personality of a spinster schoolmarm and Bernie sounds like Castro to a lot of people. Weak Democrat candidates.
I would support Trump but think Rubio is the only 'presidential' guy they have to offer who stands a chance. Half of what Trump says is crap but you know it is and laugh. The other guys are lying and it is a bit more believable.
I support single payer healthcare but Obama forcing this fucked up thing he created is wrong. Less involvement with being the world police force is another Dem ideal I kinda favor. They ought to pay us or something you would think?
One thing is for sure, if the Repubs can not win this election they are finished. Hillary has the personality of a spinster schoolmarm and Bernie sounds like Castro to a lot of people. Weak Democrat candidates.
I would support Trump but think Rubio is the only 'presidential' guy they have to offer who stands a chance. Half of what Trump says is crap but you know it is and laugh. The other guys are lying and it is a bit more believable.
Hello yesum
I'd like to just point out that the U.S military policing of the world does bring in payment, by securing special interests abroad etc...
whether those interests are only good for the U.S and bad for most everyone is another subject all together and we'd be going way off topic.
I don't know much about Rubio; but if I could vote, I'd vote for Trump just because the guy has so much money that lobbyist / bribes, will have to either step up their offers to levels they may not be willing to, or may just be turned down all together.
on the other hand, I've never met a leftist that can bear an attractive offer, $$$ destroys idealists lol...
human, way too human, aren't we?
peace!
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