Ruderalis can't suck forever
- Thread starter jomorning
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horror business
Member
Well you would be crossing it with indica's or sativa's to give it potency, so in the long run, it wouldn't really be ruderalis. It would be a hybrid.
Have you not heard of lowryder and its hybrids? I do not think that ruderalis all by its self will improve in potency unless hybridized.
B
Bluebeard
It took hundreds or maybe even thousands of years for humans to properly combine the genes to create THC content over 20%, so I guess if you selectively inbred your ruderalis for a thousand years, then you might have something decent. The breeding stock humans had probably started with probably went into the range of about 3-4% THC, much higher than ruderalis. As far as I am aware, ruderalis is a primary CBD producer and like modern DEA approved hemp cultivars is a homozygous Bd cultivar giving it a permanently high CBD/THC ratio which cannot be altered without the occurrence of a random mutation. CBD blocks the effects of THC so even if you could breed the THC level to be high, the CBD level would still have to be at least 10 times higher. Also if you could find a ruderalis sample that did produce THC as its primary cannabinoid, the lack of ability to produce high cannabinoid concentrations would put it around .5%. This could probably be increased over a long period of selective breeding with very good male selection, but when you consider that most potent cannabis came from wild ancestors capable producing a more respectable 3-4% THC you'd have your work cut out for you.
As was already said your best bet would be to hybridize, as was already suggested, or better yet start with a Hokkaido landrace which frequently produce 3-4%THC and finish in late July and early august at 45N, and grow much higher than 10" and yield much more than 5-10 grams.
As was already said your best bet would be to hybridize, as was already suggested, or better yet start with a Hokkaido landrace which frequently produce 3-4%THC and finish in late July and early august at 45N, and grow much higher than 10" and yield much more than 5-10 grams.
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horror business
Member
I agree with most of what you said Bluebeard, except for "It took hundreds or maybe even thousands of years for humans to properly combine the genes to create THC content over 20%".
More like a few decades... Besides, it wasn't until the mid 70's when indoor growing and breeding became popular. And it wasn't until the past few decades when we have even had reliable ways of testing for THC and other cannabinoid percentages.
More like a few decades... Besides, it wasn't until the mid 70's when indoor growing and breeding became popular. And it wasn't until the past few decades when we have even had reliable ways of testing for THC and other cannabinoid percentages.
B
Bluebeard
A few decades? Are you kidding? What do growing indoors and GC testing have to do with anything? Cannabis hasn't improved in the slightest since indoor growing caught on. Indoor growing using Hid's wasn't possible until the mid 1980's. Haze, skunk, and northern lights were all developed well before the mid 1980's, and you cannot find one soul who will tell you that pure haze, northern lights, or skunk 1 have done anything but decline in quality since then. Even the best indoor bred lines still don't compare with a real heirloom Keralian or Highland Colombian in terms of potency, although the THC levels might be less.
All of the potent modern lines are potent because the breeder crossed the best, most potent family heirloom landraces from all over the world that they could find. This is hybridization, and not line improvement from strictly inbreeding one line from being a wild ancestor to something over 20% THC. Without those building blocks being created generation after generation, the modern breeders probably wouldn't have gotten much higher than 6-7%. Improvement of completely wild and feral lines as opposed to hybridization is a process which takes time and thorough selection of both sexes.
Hell, if it only takes 20 years to inbreed a wild line into something that is 20% THC, there's lots of feral hemp which occasionally produces homozygous Bt plants, capable of producing a decent THC/CBD ratio. You should breed those and you will have a 20% THC plant that keeps the feral hemp traits that allow it to finish in July yield multiple kilos can withstand almost any pests and disease.
It took DJshort 25 years to create his lines from one single cross, and he started with some excellent HEIRLOOM thai mexican and afghan genes that had underwent generation upon generation of selective breeding before him, and still, only selected plants from the Indica doms he bred barely test over 20%.
Now I'm not saying these wild lines are not important for breeding, quite the opposite.
All of the potent modern lines are potent because the breeder crossed the best, most potent family heirloom landraces from all over the world that they could find. This is hybridization, and not line improvement from strictly inbreeding one line from being a wild ancestor to something over 20% THC. Without those building blocks being created generation after generation, the modern breeders probably wouldn't have gotten much higher than 6-7%. Improvement of completely wild and feral lines as opposed to hybridization is a process which takes time and thorough selection of both sexes.
Hell, if it only takes 20 years to inbreed a wild line into something that is 20% THC, there's lots of feral hemp which occasionally produces homozygous Bt plants, capable of producing a decent THC/CBD ratio. You should breed those and you will have a 20% THC plant that keeps the feral hemp traits that allow it to finish in July yield multiple kilos can withstand almost any pests and disease.
It took DJshort 25 years to create his lines from one single cross, and he started with some excellent HEIRLOOM thai mexican and afghan genes that had underwent generation upon generation of selective breeding before him, and still, only selected plants from the Indica doms he bred barely test over 20%.
Now I'm not saying these wild lines are not important for breeding, quite the opposite.
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horror business
Member
And what I'm saying is these breeders didn't start traveling and selecting seeds until the 60's. That's almost 5 decades ago, not thousands or hundreds of years...
B
Bluebeard
But those seeds they used for breeding already had a very long history of being selected for potency. People in the 60's weren't the first to start selecting for potency. I don't know of any westerner that was breeding in the 1960's with completely wild cannabis that had no history of being selected for potency, and even if they were the increases in potency were in large part due to introducing new populations to each other, not inbreeding.
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it is rediculous to think that we are the reason cannabis is potent. yes we may have helped it along in the last couple of decades but by no means are we the reason the plant is potent. yes tribes ect have been breeding for 100s maybe 1000s of years but i doubt they had the goals we have today. i believe they were just happy with a successful harvest. with selective breeding and im assuming a great breeder behind the project i believe ruderalis can and will become formidable just look in mds forum if you think im bsing. last but not least cannabis is a versatile plant the most i've seen, they remind of humans as every one is different.
dkmonk
Member
they were mainly growing mexican and columbian bricked seedy weed, and selecting the best plants from them and started stabilizing.
they were all for the most part pure LANDRACES, that hadn't been messed with, or crossed with other landraces yet.
It was all outdoors as well, so how would you really control breeding when everything would be getting pollinated by random plants that might not have even been that good?
they were all for the most part pure LANDRACES, that hadn't been messed with, or crossed with other landraces yet.
It was all outdoors as well, so how would you really control breeding when everything would be getting pollinated by random plants that might not have even been that good?
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G
Guest
horror business, I am not in either your or Bluebeard's league but the thought that comes to mind is of hash. There are countless stories of marijuana being bred for potency for hash. We, as far as I know, have no records of the natives of Mexico and South America so we don't know if they did the same. I know I would have. lol
Thanks friends 
and specially Bluebeard.
I'm looking for high CBD strains for medical purposes and because I guess it would be interesting (for me) to smoke weed without getting high. Anyway, do you have any idea about how should the high of a low THC/high CBD strain be? I understand that it is not (or very little) psychoactive, but would it be narcotic, like couchlock strains?
I bought a pack of Ruderalis Indica from SensiSeeds Seedbank (15 seeds - 22eur) to satisfy my curiosity and I have 2 plants with 12 days. I find it interesting to grow because I really want to know how the CBD "high" feels like and because I also plan to breed it with some strong Indica, like Bubba Kush or Black Domina. Also, CBD is an antagonist of THC and is also know to have anti-psychotic effects. I also think that cannabis produces those anti-psychotic effects for a reason, and when commercial breeders seek low CBD/high THC hybrids they forget that CBD and its medicinal properties are there for a reason and so they may be breeding dangerous strains for people predisposed to psychosis, skizophrenia, depression, anxiety, etc.
I'll also use my Ruderalis Indica buds to mix with any other strain that shows to be excessively psychoactive or just too strong for me (mixing them in the same joint).
Thanks again and if you can tell how does the CBD effect feels I would appreciate.
My 2 little Ruderalis I:
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and specially Bluebeard.I'm looking for high CBD strains for medical purposes and because I guess it would be interesting (for me) to smoke weed without getting high. Anyway, do you have any idea about how should the high of a low THC/high CBD strain be? I understand that it is not (or very little) psychoactive, but would it be narcotic, like couchlock strains?
I bought a pack of Ruderalis Indica from SensiSeeds Seedbank (15 seeds - 22eur) to satisfy my curiosity and I have 2 plants with 12 days. I find it interesting to grow because I really want to know how the CBD "high" feels like and because I also plan to breed it with some strong Indica, like Bubba Kush or Black Domina. Also, CBD is an antagonist of THC and is also know to have anti-psychotic effects. I also think that cannabis produces those anti-psychotic effects for a reason, and when commercial breeders seek low CBD/high THC hybrids they forget that CBD and its medicinal properties are there for a reason and so they may be breeding dangerous strains for people predisposed to psychosis, skizophrenia, depression, anxiety, etc.
I'll also use my Ruderalis Indica buds to mix with any other strain that shows to be excessively psychoactive or just too strong for me (mixing them in the same joint).
Thanks again and if you can tell how does the CBD effect feels I would appreciate.
My 2 little Ruderalis I:
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horror business
Member
But the point is, they were still landraces. I'm not saying cannabis was more potent then or now.
The whole point of this thread was Ruderalis, and THC percentages! Besides, THC alone isn't what gets you high. As I'm sure you know, it is the terpenoid profile in combination with the cannabinoids, which will effect the high. What may be considered potent to one person, may not be potent to another. A variety with under 10% THC content, can get one person much "higher", than something with a much higher THC percentage, but with a much different profile.
Such as indicas with high THC contents that get you couchlocked, not high... With very little CBD which is not found in high amounts in western cannabis, despite popular belief. That is not what causes the couchlock effect. Ask Sam the Skunkman, he has done research on all of this.
You said it yourself Bluebeard, that breeders probably started with something with a lower THC content, and then selectively bred the finest heirloom varieties from all over to create something "better". In your other threads, you've stated how you find old school varieties to be much more potent than modern varieties. Yet, most modern varieties have a very high THC content... yet don't seem to get them that high that they remember... Why? Different terpenoid profiles... And the fact that everything has been hybridized to hell with the same strains...
But the point is, it is a known fact that the true breeding and hybridizing started in the 60's, and has continued up until now. Until then, people didn't travel around the world to find the finest varieties of cannabis. They used what they had... the pure landraces...
Like I said, I agreed with everything you said, except for your thousands/hundreds of years theory.
The whole point of this thread was Ruderalis, and THC percentages! Besides, THC alone isn't what gets you high. As I'm sure you know, it is the terpenoid profile in combination with the cannabinoids, which will effect the high. What may be considered potent to one person, may not be potent to another. A variety with under 10% THC content, can get one person much "higher", than something with a much higher THC percentage, but with a much different profile.
Such as indicas with high THC contents that get you couchlocked, not high... With very little CBD which is not found in high amounts in western cannabis, despite popular belief. That is not what causes the couchlock effect. Ask Sam the Skunkman, he has done research on all of this.
You said it yourself Bluebeard, that breeders probably started with something with a lower THC content, and then selectively bred the finest heirloom varieties from all over to create something "better". In your other threads, you've stated how you find old school varieties to be much more potent than modern varieties. Yet, most modern varieties have a very high THC content... yet don't seem to get them that high that they remember... Why? Different terpenoid profiles... And the fact that everything has been hybridized to hell with the same strains...
But the point is, it is a known fact that the true breeding and hybridizing started in the 60's, and has continued up until now. Until then, people didn't travel around the world to find the finest varieties of cannabis. They used what they had... the pure landraces...
Like I said, I agreed with everything you said, except for your thousands/hundreds of years theory.
Lets digress and not talk about the subject... shouldn't this little debate be in the breeding area?
Ruderalis is basically hemp that is used for hemp seeds production. Since companies that sell help seeds need a constant supply, they needed something that would flower year round.... hence ruderalis. The better question is why would anyone inbreed ruderalis until its potent, when I have my Auto white russian. Lets break down my auto white russian
Lowryder = williams wonder x northern lights x "mexican" ruderalis
Auto Ak = Lowryder x ak47 x lowryder x ak47
Auto white russian = Auto ak x white russian x auto ak.
In a couple years, there is a stable autoflowering plant that is potent as well.
Ruderalis is basically hemp that is used for hemp seeds production. Since companies that sell help seeds need a constant supply, they needed something that would flower year round.... hence ruderalis. The better question is why would anyone inbreed ruderalis until its potent, when I have my Auto white russian. Lets break down my auto white russian
Lowryder = williams wonder x northern lights x "mexican" ruderalis
Auto Ak = Lowryder x ak47 x lowryder x ak47
Auto white russian = Auto ak x white russian x auto ak.
In a couple years, there is a stable autoflowering plant that is potent as well.
Sam the Skunkman has stated that sometimes weed with lower THC is a much better smoke that super high THC. I see where Mandala is claiming that their Satori was measured at 28% THC, which would make it even more potent than White Russian.Horror business is probably correct in that different combinations of cannabinoids and terpenes will give different effects.
Many medical scientists are stating that CBD may be a more important cannabinoid than THC. CBD is anti-nausea,anti-convulsive,anti-anxiety, anti-inflammitory and may inhibit cancer cell growth. Also has some neuroprotection, as does THC. Since it is not only nonpsychotropic, but an antagonist to THC, it is perceived by doctors to be more acceptable as a medicine.
I read one study that I can no longer find, that states CBD slows down glutamate production in the brain. This is important for glutamate-induced neuron death in the retina of the eye during glaucoma, and may have implications in motor neuron diseases like Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, which is characterized by excessive glutamate excitotoxicity .
Psychotropic, you may want to consider growing 2 strains, one a CBD pure strain and the other a THC strain. Make oil out of both strains and combine them in capsules for medication. That is what a couple of us are trying to do now. My son has ALS and my friends father has Parkinsons.
Many medical scientists are stating that CBD may be a more important cannabinoid than THC. CBD is anti-nausea,anti-convulsive,anti-anxiety, anti-inflammitory and may inhibit cancer cell growth. Also has some neuroprotection, as does THC. Since it is not only nonpsychotropic, but an antagonist to THC, it is perceived by doctors to be more acceptable as a medicine.
I read one study that I can no longer find, that states CBD slows down glutamate production in the brain. This is important for glutamate-induced neuron death in the retina of the eye during glaucoma, and may have implications in motor neuron diseases like Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, which is characterized by excessive glutamate excitotoxicity .
Psychotropic, you may want to consider growing 2 strains, one a CBD pure strain and the other a THC strain. Make oil out of both strains and combine them in capsules for medication. That is what a couple of us are trying to do now. My son has ALS and my friends father has Parkinsons.
Hi! Thanks Pops!
This came on the news almost a year ago, about THC and medical properties of CBD: on BBC and FOX
There is also a very good thread on this subject here in the ICMAG.
...and also The Canadian Consortium for the Investigation of Cannabinoids
Well, the THC/CBD debate may be a bit off-topic so I'm not going to keep with it, hehehe.
One more thing I've heard about Ruderalis Indica is that some people don't consider it as an auto-flowering plant, because they say that she will only start flowering after getting mature enough, and by mature enough I mean 3 to 4 months or after the 5th node/pair of leaves. After that, even with 24h of light per day she (or he) will start flowering.
Being a very resistent strain, dealing well with cold temps and long periods without water, it seems like a very good strain to put outdoor (guerilla) in January and leave her alone until June/July (Europe) and then go back to the place to see if there's anything to harvest. I would inbreed it or make some S1 seeds to use in a guerrilla grow.
Stay cool!
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Everything clear about your advice, and thanks again for sharing, except for one thing... What do you mean by "..a CBD pure strain"? Any example? Do you consider Ruderalis Indica a "CBD pure strain"?Pops said:
This came on the news almost a year ago, about THC and medical properties of CBD: on BBC and FOX
There is also a very good thread on this subject here in the ICMAG.
...and also The Canadian Consortium for the Investigation of Cannabinoids
Well, the THC/CBD debate may be a bit off-topic so I'm not going to keep with it, hehehe.
One more thing I've heard about Ruderalis Indica is that some people don't consider it as an auto-flowering plant, because they say that she will only start flowering after getting mature enough, and by mature enough I mean 3 to 4 months or after the 5th node/pair of leaves. After that, even with 24h of light per day she (or he) will start flowering.
Being a very resistent strain, dealing well with cold temps and long periods without water, it seems like a very good strain to put outdoor (guerilla) in January and leave her alone until June/July (Europe) and then go back to the place to see if there's anything to harvest. I would inbreed it or make some S1 seeds to use in a guerrilla grow.
Stay cool!
.
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Ok 
Thanks!
One I'm considering to get in the near future is a Japanese landrace named 'Obi', from Hokkaido Islands, but I need to get some more information about it first. Maybe I can get a high CBD pheno from it or from Ruderalis Indica. I'll let you know then
For breeding and selecting purposes, a cheap way to test a strain for CBD levels would be really helpful. I know cannalyse but it doesn't give you a % and is very expensive.
More about Ruderalis: The return of Ruderalis
Good smokes
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Thanks!One I'm considering to get in the near future is a Japanese landrace named 'Obi', from Hokkaido Islands, but I need to get some more information about it first. Maybe I can get a high CBD pheno from it or from Ruderalis Indica. I'll let you know then
For breeding and selecting purposes, a cheap way to test a strain for CBD levels would be really helpful. I know cannalyse but it doesn't give you a % and is very expensive.
More about Ruderalis: The return of Ruderalis
Good smokes
.
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looks like we have the same goal. I have heard that the Obi strain is somewhat unworked and may contain both THC and CBD or a combo. I have heard about the Cannalyze kits but don't know where to order them. They give you a very rough analysis of the cannabinoid profile, and by measuring the size of the stain, you can get a rough approximation of %. Not very accurate, but better than nothing.
I want a CBD strain
