F
fat freddy
How many LED watts to equal hps watts? eg how many watts of LED lights to replace a 600hps or 1000hps. Is it approximately half? eg 300ish watts of LED = 600 hps
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Screw-in around. High wattage SIL grows & designs
- Thread starter Drop That Sound
- Start date
Interesting
Interesting
Got it. Sounds good man. Check out this link. It gives a thorough break down of the bulbs I believe you are using.
https://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/2013/10/what-s-inside-the-walmart-60w-replacement-led-bulb.html
Interesting
Got it. Sounds good man. Check out this link. It gives a thorough break down of the bulbs I believe you are using.
https://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/2013/10/what-s-inside-the-walmart-60w-replacement-led-bulb.html
Drop That Sound
Well-known member
Lets talk costs more
As far as baseline cost estimates for LED comparisons, I'm pretty sure that;
High end commercial fixtures: upwards of $2 a watt
Lower end commercial or DIY LED/COB: around $1 A watt?
SILs: to get the lowest cost I will consider a 15.5w great value 2700 k bulb at my current price of $2.08. Lets say I did use a .40 cent ebay base, and .25 cents worth of wiring per bulb. Lets go ahead and round up to $3.
Thats about .20 per watt.
Depending on where you live/source the materials, and your price on bulbs, it could be upwards of .40 per w.
Hastings said 300 canadian for his 840w so thats like .35 in his country.
Im hoping to stay under .20, by re-using my own stock of materials mostly, and not using sockets. I won't know for a few weeks.
I hope my math is correct too, feel free to call me out on it.
As far as baseline cost estimates for LED comparisons, I'm pretty sure that;
High end commercial fixtures: upwards of $2 a watt
Lower end commercial or DIY LED/COB: around $1 A watt?
SILs: to get the lowest cost I will consider a 15.5w great value 2700 k bulb at my current price of $2.08. Lets say I did use a .40 cent ebay base, and .25 cents worth of wiring per bulb. Lets go ahead and round up to $3.
Thats about .20 per watt.
Depending on where you live/source the materials, and your price on bulbs, it could be upwards of .40 per w.
Hastings said 300 canadian for his 840w so thats like .35 in his country.
Im hoping to stay under .20, by re-using my own stock of materials mostly, and not using sockets. I won't know for a few weeks.
I hope my math is correct too, feel free to call me out on it.
F
fat freddy
Drop That Sound. How do you work out how many Sil's you need to cover an area, eg if you were trying to light a 4foot x 4foot area? I have been reading the threads but can't figure out how people are working this out. Have read people using from 25 watts to 40 watts (in LED's) per square foot, however the 'kill a watt' thread is showing that what the bulbs or qb's etc claim is different to actual watts used. Have seen a side by side 1000w hps v 480w LED setup that looks similar results so how are people working out the conversion? Is a 'kill a watt' meter the tool I need? I am new to the whole LED thing and there seems to be so many ways to skin this cat that I'm thinking the cat will escape before I figure it out.
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Drop That Sound
Well-known member
Freddy: 4x4 = 16 sq feet. So if you want say 30w per sq ft thats 30 x 16 which =480watts. Just multiply the watts you want x sq ft to get the amount you need.
Now, the bulbs advertise the equivelent output compared to an incandescent bulb (60w/75w/100w etc), but usually state the actual wattage too. In my case 100w equivelent is actually using 15.5.
So if you wanted 30watts per sq in your 4x4 using the 15.5w bulbs im using, you divide 480w x 15.5 which = 30.97.
So 31 bulbs would technically be the answer.
OI: I suppose watt per watt any lighting creates the same heat output. A general figure for 1000w HPS is roughly 3500btu's.
I also suppose actual 1000w worth of SILs will also create around 3500btus.
The thing is HPS puts out a sprectrum consisting of green and yellow that the plants don't even use. Basically only 50% of the photons are used so the rest is wasted.
LEDs on the other hand create more photons that can be synthesized, like around 30% more, so you need less power and in turn create less heat.
As far as the actual temp of the bulb itself, most the heat is on the PCB with the diodes. I blinded myself the other night trying to get a reading with my laser temp gun, I wanna say it was around 180f. Ill do another reading with my welding helmet on soon.
The heat is what degrades the components of the bulbs, thats why Im gonna air cool my SILs with my newest design. Nothing to fancy, but I think it will make them last longer and less chance of bulbs burning out..
Now, the bulbs advertise the equivelent output compared to an incandescent bulb (60w/75w/100w etc), but usually state the actual wattage too. In my case 100w equivelent is actually using 15.5.
So if you wanted 30watts per sq in your 4x4 using the 15.5w bulbs im using, you divide 480w x 15.5 which = 30.97.
So 31 bulbs would technically be the answer.
OI: I suppose watt per watt any lighting creates the same heat output. A general figure for 1000w HPS is roughly 3500btu's.
I also suppose actual 1000w worth of SILs will also create around 3500btus.
The thing is HPS puts out a sprectrum consisting of green and yellow that the plants don't even use. Basically only 50% of the photons are used so the rest is wasted.
LEDs on the other hand create more photons that can be synthesized, like around 30% more, so you need less power and in turn create less heat.
As far as the actual temp of the bulb itself, most the heat is on the PCB with the diodes. I blinded myself the other night trying to get a reading with my laser temp gun, I wanna say it was around 180f. Ill do another reading with my welding helmet on soon.
The heat is what degrades the components of the bulbs, thats why Im gonna air cool my SILs with my newest design. Nothing to fancy, but I think it will make them last longer and less chance of bulbs burning out..
Drop That Sound
Well-known member
I'm new to LED lighting too, other than running a few SILs, and researching a bit over the years.
I hope to learn as much from this thread I created as much as the info I give out.
I'm choosing to go the SIL route to save money, and challenge myself to see what kind of results I can come up with.
I'm by no means an LED lighting expert, just a crazy guy with a gut feeling that what Im doing will work. And possibly change the way others build there own fixtures too. If I was running a larger wattage LED grow, I would surely rather spend 15-35 cents a watt over a dollar or 2, even if it took me a few days to string all the lights. Just sayin!
I hope to learn as much from this thread I created as much as the info I give out.
I'm choosing to go the SIL route to save money, and challenge myself to see what kind of results I can come up with.
I'm by no means an LED lighting expert, just a crazy guy with a gut feeling that what Im doing will work. And possibly change the way others build there own fixtures too. If I was running a larger wattage LED grow, I would surely rather spend 15-35 cents a watt over a dollar or 2, even if it took me a few days to string all the lights. Just sayin!
F
fat freddy
Thanks Drop That Sound, that helps me a bit. It was the way I started to work out things (30-40w led watts not equivalent watts per square foot) but got confused with all the tech jargon and qb board watts etc. Thanks for starting this thread
St. Phatty
Active member
Nope.
I tried drying Cannabis on top a SIL Panel. Gave it a week. Nothing. Wasn't a normal dry, I like slow-drying dry buds till they are easier to crumble. Used to use a HID ballast for that.
The SIL bulbs are so efficient there is no heat coming off the back-side of the Panel. (House temps 50 to 60 F).
The bulbs only cost about $200 Canadian (64 bulbs, taxes in). All the sockets, wire, wood for the 3 frames/enclosures cost just under $100 altogether. I'd say that's pretty cheap for lighting 25 square feet.
Drop That Sound
Well-known member
In a series wiring config, if one bulb go's out, the rest of the bulbs further along in the circuit will lose power as well.
Parallel would still work, even if one did burn out, and also distributes the current better to all the bulbs.
Im not sure how many bulbs would be ok to wire in series if you did do it that way, I probably wouldn't do more than 10 or so though.
I was planning on wiring individual parallel circuits for each row, with a seperate switch too. Only because i'm building my fixture without sockets, and need a way to turn off bulbs to save power.
Parallel would still work, even if one did burn out, and also distributes the current better to all the bulbs.
Im not sure how many bulbs would be ok to wire in series if you did do it that way, I probably wouldn't do more than 10 or so though.
I was planning on wiring individual parallel circuits for each row, with a seperate switch too. Only because i'm building my fixture without sockets, and need a way to turn off bulbs to save power.
Drop That Sound
Well-known member
Speaking of going socket-less, I just did a test finally, and was releived to find out how easy the metal screw end popped off.
Too easy.
Here's the problem though: the nuetral wire will work fine by simply adding a small wire nut to my wires, but the positive wire has a little resistor that might get in the way.
It might not though, and still fit in the wire nut, I'll find out soon. If it doesn't its no big deal, I'll either use a different type of 3 way connector, or even solder a small peice of wire to it.
Also, see how I stick a butcher knife between the base and the globe diffuser? Then I just roll it on a flat surface, and able to remove the globes in no time.
It will take me less than an hour to remove the globes, and screw end terminals off 60 bulbs.
Too easy.
Here's the problem though: the nuetral wire will work fine by simply adding a small wire nut to my wires, but the positive wire has a little resistor that might get in the way.
It might not though, and still fit in the wire nut, I'll find out soon. If it doesn't its no big deal, I'll either use a different type of 3 way connector, or even solder a small peice of wire to it.
Also, see how I stick a butcher knife between the base and the globe diffuser? Then I just roll it on a flat surface, and able to remove the globes in no time.
It will take me less than an hour to remove the globes, and screw end terminals off 60 bulbs.
Attachments
I wire my sils in parrallel that way I can unscrew some and everything will still light up. The 14watt greatvalue sils I use at 120volt math out to be only .1167amp each, with 16 gauge lamp cord you could wire up a 1000watts of sils with one sufficient cord.
I know it's not a full room but it's a little eye candy for those who are interested in sils. What you're seeing here is 350 watts from 12 2700k bulbs, and 13 5000k bulbs spaced about 5 inches apart in a 3x3 tent, equaling 38.88watts per square foot. The light sockets are mounted on a very lightweight wood crib side that happen to work perfect after cutting to size. I'll be using this little space for small seed runs, cross pollinating, and just because I wanted to try flowering with sils after seeing what others have done.
I know it's not a full room but it's a little eye candy for those who are interested in sils. What you're seeing here is 350 watts from 12 2700k bulbs, and 13 5000k bulbs spaced about 5 inches apart in a 3x3 tent, equaling 38.88watts per square foot. The light sockets are mounted on a very lightweight wood crib side that happen to work perfect after cutting to size. I'll be using this little space for small seed runs, cross pollinating, and just because I wanted to try flowering with sils after seeing what others have done.
Attachments
Drop That Sound
Well-known member
Love it, nursery complete with crib for the babes. Such a joy when they grow up and start trying to climb out of it. 
Seeing it sideways (hate how that happens to 80% my pics, unless I re-save them on the PC first) gives me plenty ideas though.. A vertical sillz sandwich grow. 2 SIL arrays on the sides, pointing towards each other, and a vertical double scrog trellis with flowers growing on both sides. Or an A-frame trellis type setup with a slope on both sides so you can have just a little more room under it with 2 rows of plants. Or even a trickle down gravity PVC\fencepost NFT system, with some SOG action going on. Like having 2 grows and barely using much floor space.
Seems like these bulbs would be perfect for going vertical, you could cover whole walls pretty cheaply compared to other LED tech, and really maximize space. Most people wouldn't know if you blocked like 3 ft off the whole end of a room or shop with a partition wall, compared to a whole room being used as normal..
Seeing it sideways (hate how that happens to 80% my pics, unless I re-save them on the PC first) gives me plenty ideas though.. A vertical sillz sandwich grow. 2 SIL arrays on the sides, pointing towards each other, and a vertical double scrog trellis with flowers growing on both sides. Or an A-frame trellis type setup with a slope on both sides so you can have just a little more room under it with 2 rows of plants. Or even a trickle down gravity PVC\fencepost NFT system, with some SOG action going on. Like having 2 grows and barely using much floor space.
Seems like these bulbs would be perfect for going vertical, you could cover whole walls pretty cheaply compared to other LED tech, and really maximize space. Most people wouldn't know if you blocked like 3 ft off the whole end of a room or shop with a partition wall, compared to a whole room being used as normal..
Drop That Sound
Well-known member
The Great Value bulbs some of us are getting at Walmart boast a 20,000 hour lifespan on the package, or 18 years when used 3 hours a day. The 14w version of GV bulbs say 9 years but might be for 6 hr a day usage, not sure but i'll look next time.
If they even last that long I would suspect they are prone to decreasing in output over time, just as most diodes on all the other LED lights do. Only some of the newer models, as of very recently, have better diodes that claim to last longer and brighter.
One of the main reasons I am choosing to light my garden with SILs, because they are a fraction of the cost of commercial lights. So even if some burn out I don't feel like i'm getting burned on cash.
Lets say a QB lost 30-40% of its output over 10 years, I could buy 4-5 more sets of bulbs over that time and always have around 100%. Lets say the main driver burned out, or any component of a commercial fixture, that could potentially ruin a grow or set you back more than a new set of bulbs.
Unfortunately there are lots of reviews about SILs burning out anytime, with standard household usage, from within a month to a year. But then again I've seen them last for years myself so its hard to say really. Plenty of good reviews to I suppose.
I'm sure that heat, and as well as bad quality control (worker had a bad day and a few runs weren't assembled correctly?) are the main enemies of SILs. The heat is basically trapped in the base, and the heatsinks aren't really the greatest. Some bulbs of certain brands really cheap out and only have a small heatsink on the PCB, and aren't very generous with thermal compounds, but some are better
and transfer the heat into the base with added metal inside.
I've been preparing to build an enclosed air cooled fixture to try and help preserve the bulbs life. I'm willing to gamble a little bit
