How much Lecithin in MCT sublingual tincture ?

Vaporizando192 · Feb 8, 2020

Hi Cooks,
after a lot of readings here about this topic i got very confused.

How much Lecithin (of Soy because i have only that one) should be used in a MCT sublingual tincture ?

Thxxx! :comfort:

Gry · Feb 8, 2020

I don't use any in what I sublingual.
I go with decarbed frozen quick wash or rosin.
They are basically interchangeable for me.
I add olive or coconut oil( interchangeable) to it, just enough
to be able to thin it enough so the eyedropper
can pull it up.
This how I do it for myself, never tried it
on others etc.
Do use lecithin when making candies or brownies
or baked goods in general.

I'mback · Feb 8, 2020

a tsp ber batch ia all you need

I use sunflower lecithin vice soy.

Bobby Boucher · Feb 8, 2020

I would argue “the more the merrier”.

I use as much as my recipes will allow for. I would make whatever your making in small batches, incrementally using more and more lecithin, so you can see for yourself how much more effective it is with added lecithin, and which threshold is right for the desired consistency of your end product.

In my chocolates, I use what.. 3-4 times as much liquid soy lecithin as I do concentrate, by weight. I would use more if I could. A $20 8 oz bottle is enough for 2 oz of concentrate, or about 200 full sized bars.

Granted, when I don’t have chocolates made, it is much more convenient to just weigh out a .1 of solid dab and throw it under my tongue.

Throw that .1 in a pill or a medible with a .3-4 of lecithin.. it’s a lot more effective, ime.

Vaporizando192 · Feb 8, 2020

Gry said:
I don't use any in what I sublingual.
I go with decarbed frozen quick wash or rosin.
They are basically interchangeable for me.
I add olive or coconut oil( interchangeable) to it, just enough
to be able to thin it enough so the eyedropper
can pull it up.
This how I do it for myself, never tried it
on others etc.
Do use lecithin when making candies or brownies
or baked goods in general.

I did sublingual tincture with and without Lecithin but always wondering how much is the right dose.

What i notice is that if i use it i have a quicker effect, otherwise not.

Vaporizando192 · Feb 8, 2020

I'mback said:
a tsp ber batch ia all you need I use sunflower lecithin vice soy.

Tsp per batch ?

How big is ur batch?

Vaporizando192 · Feb 8, 2020

Bobby Boucher said:
I would argue “the more the merrier”.

I use as much as my recipes will allow for. I would make whatever your making in small batches, incrementally using more and more lecithin, so you can see for yourself how much more effective it is with added lecithin, and which threshold is right for the desired consistency of your end product.

In my chocolates, I use what.. 3-4 times as much liquid soy lecithin as I do concentrate, by weight. I would use more if I could. A $20 8 oz bottle is enough for 2 oz of concentrate, or about 200 full sized bars.

Granted, when I don’t have chocolates made, it is much more convenient to just weigh out a .1 of solid dab and throw it under my tongue.

Throw that .1 in a pill or a medible with a .3-4 of lecithin.. it’s a lot more effective, ime.

The more the merrier

i read it during my research here and i remember it often when i think about this topic!

In that post u were saying u use from 2 % to 5 % by volume (but you were talking about chocolate)

In this post u say u use 3-4 times more than extract by weight.

I am still a bit confused .

But anyway thx for ur 2cents!

Bobby Boucher · Feb 8, 2020

Both can be true, and are true. Say I use 10 grams of dab to make 30 chocolates @80 grams per bar. 2400 grams of chocolate total. In pure milk chocolate, I would use 2% Soy lecithin by weight, or volume, the difference is negligible.

2400 x .02 = 48 grams of lecithin for 30 bars or 10 grams of dab.

10 grams of dab x 4 er 5 = 40 er 50 grams or lecithin.

I use more for dark.

Put it this way.. the majority of the liquid in any gel capsule.. is lecithin. It’s a carrier. For drugs. The more you incorporate into your recipe, the better your meds will travel through your system.

The only downside is obviously that after a certain point, your end product will change too drastically in consistency, or increase too much in volume.

Vaporizando192 · Feb 9, 2020

Bobby Boucher said:
Both can be true, and are true. Say I use 10 grams of dab to make 30 chocolates @80 grams per bar. 2400 grams of chocolate total. In pure milk chocolate, I would use 2% Soy lecithin by weight, or volume, the difference is negligible.

2400 x .02 = 48 grams of lecithin for 30 bars or 10 grams of dab.

10 grams of dab x 4 er 5 = 40 er 50 grams or lecithin.

I use more for dark.

Put it this way.. the majority of the liquid in any gel capsule.. is lecithin. It’s a carrier. For drugs. The more you incorporate into your recipe, the better your meds will travel through your system.

The only downside is obviously that after a certain point, your end product will change too drastically in consistency, or increase too much in volume.

Yes both are true, right!

But lets calculate now for my needs.

I will prepare sublingual tincture in MCT oil

15 grams of CBD in 400 ml of MCT oil is my goal !

If i use ur numbers something will be Wrong

400 x .02 = 8 grams of Lecithin
But
15 (grams of CBD) x 4 er 5 = 60 - 75 grams of Lecithin

Where is the mistake ?

Bobby Boucher · Feb 9, 2020

There is no mistake.

I expect people to eat a larger volume of chocolate than you expect them to eat of your mct oil.

My chocolate is 1 part dab, 4 parts lecithin, and roughly 250 parts chocolate. That’s the difference. This is what I found to work for me to achieve my desired strength and consistency.

All you need to do is start small and work your way up.. until you reach YOUR desired strength and consistency.

If you don’t want the viscosity of your starting material to change much, use very little lecithin. Milk chocolate only TOLERATES as much as 2%.

I could use more dab or less dab, I would still add 2% total volume worth of soy lecithin in my milk chocolate. 3% for dark. That wouldn’t change, regardless of how much more or less dab I used.

It’s about the final viscosity you are looking for depending on what you are making.

If you were making pills, you wouldn’t use.. 2% soy lecithin. You would use at least 50% lecithin, probably closer to 90% lecithin.

Try that with milk chocolate... not so good.

Silly Billy! :biggrin:

Bobby Boucher · Feb 9, 2020

A more concrete answer. I would use at least as much lecithin as concentrate. But really, there is no ceiling, ime. If you could stomach a half pint of lecithin in one sitting, it’d be the most effective way to consume whatever you are taking.

The only ceiling, ime, is at what point does it become an inconvenience to add more?

If I wanted dab on the go, I wouldn’t add nothin. Like Gry said, I’d just dip a little chip of dab under my tongue.

The convenience comes at a sacrifice, I’ve noticed, where I have to eat almost exactly twice as much for the same effects. I use a shitload of lecithin in my chocolates, which already contain a fair bit of lecithin in them.

That being said, I don’t do syrups or tinctures or gel caps. I eat straight dab if I don’t want to emulsify my lecithin into a recipe.

Vaporizando192 · Feb 9, 2020

Bobby Boucher said:
It’s about the final viscosity you are looking for depending on what you are making.

Thx Bobby, Here is the key probably!

The viscosity of the product i wanna make !

Chocolate obviously (or Pills) are not same thing of MCT oil in a sublingual way.

Hope that someone experienced in Tinctures come here and suggest me a good ratio for it !!

Vaporizando192 · Feb 9, 2020

Bobby Boucher said:
A more concrete answer. I would use at least as much lecithin as concentrate.

This could be a good starting point to talking about with experts of Tinctures (in MCT oil)....but noone came

Bobby Boucher · Feb 9, 2020

I make the oil, braj. I just don’t eat it without mixing it with my chocolates or cookies. It tastes nasty. Adding a bunch of lecithin will make it more effective but it’ll just act as a surfactant on your tongue and coat the entire inside of your mouth with crud.

And while I certainly wouldn’t call myself an “expert”, I wouldn’t hesitate to call myself a “professional”, being that people are happy to compensate me for my time.

Adding the mct oil to food not only helps the taste, it helps the drugs pass more readily through your system. The novelty of having a syrup you have to syringe out under your tongue is.. cool, I suppose, but i still can’t figure why you wouldn’t put it in a capsule and swallow it to avoid the unpleasantry of having the entire surface of your mouth coated with what tastes like burnt goo, simply adding the oil into a recipe, or just skipping out on the coconut oil and lecithin all together and eating straight dab chips so you don’t have to deal with a whole mouthful of crud.

If you choose to use coconut oil and lecithin, the amount you use is entirely up to you. I personally don’t add lecithin until I start cooking. I’ll just dissolve my dab in a little glass vial of hot coconut oil and store it somewhere dark, or I’ll decarb it as is and leave it in a piece of parchment or ptfe in the freezer

The coconut oil just acts as an emulsifier. It’s just something to suspend the dab in that’ll mix and spread easily. The lecithin acts like a carrier. The more you use, the better. Just start with less and keep adding more til you are happy.

If you just plan to stick it in your mouth, less is more.

If that doesn’t answer your question.. i dunno. I think you are over analyzing. Why don’t you just take little .1’s of whatever you got and try mixing it with with different ratios or lecithin and coconut oil yourself and try eating it? There is no magic formula that fits in every equation.

Vaporizando192 · Feb 9, 2020

Bobby Boucher said:
Why don’t you just take little .1’s of whatever you got and try mixing it with with different ratios or lecithin and coconut oil yourself and try eating it? There is no magic formula that fits in every equation.

I know there is no formula that fits for everyone.

For sure i will make some try but before to do i wanna see (and understand more) what people do with their sublingual tinctures and how it is their experience with MCT and Lecithin.

My previous Tinctures were made by coconut oil, they were really efficient and even the taste was good.
But now i wanna use MCT oil and see how it works...and how much Lecithin people use in it.

:huggg:

Bobby Boucher · Feb 9, 2020

If I don’t decarb my dab, the resulting tincture will also taste wonderful and floral. Never had a tincture that tasted good that was decarbed as per jump’s graph found on skunkpharm, and I start with really flavorful extracts. Live resins and such, often enough.

Maybe I’m doing something wrong. Don’t think so, though.

Sorry if I’m being a wet blanket at this point. Gry had it on the money, though. It’s better not to inflate the volume of the material if you are just going to stick it in your mouth, IMO. The decarb cooks off all the flavors that would make the experience of a syrup more bearable.

I'mback · Feb 9, 2020

@Vapo...
You need to research the subject away from here. e.g sunflower lecithin is better than using the GMO soy lecithin we find on the shelves. There is ton of info out there (seriously)

<<Although lecithin occurs naturally in many foods, lecithin supplements are typically derived from eggs, soy, or sunflower seeds. Lecithin is also obtained from canola, cottonseed, or animal fats.

Soy is one of the most widely-grown crops in the United States, and 94 percent of it is genetically modified. Soy is a cost-effective source of lecithin. Chemicals, including acetone and hexane, are used to extract the lecithin from soybean oil.

However, lecithin derived from sunflower oil is becoming increasingly popular, possibly due to requirements to declare allergens in foods. Also, those who wish to avoid genetically modified crops may choose sunflower lecithin. The extraction process is typically gentler and is carried out by cold pressing rather than with chemical solvents.>>

Furthermore, any fat can be used for absorption, through the liver because that is where it takes place. That being said, regular coconut oil has no where near the absorb-ability of MCT oil (medium chain triglycerides).

FME and research, lecithin is more akin to edibles than sublingual applications.

When it comes to salves, grape seed oil is your friend as it has greater penetrability through the skin. e.g it acts "deeper" Although most salves utilize olive or MCT oil, nothing beats grape seed oil.

I get accused of telling folks to "google" it. There is a reason

During your research you will run across a lot more info than you will here. That being said, your research is only as good as the effort you put in to it.

It is not uncommon to run across points of interest, which you should be bookmarking for future use. That in itself will mlead you down further rabbit holes (POIs).

I make mari pills. Capsules made from raw decarbed flowers alone. Folks said I should not be getting anything out of them because a: they don't contain any type of fat;nor do they contain any lecithin. Let me tell you. You don't need that shit in order for the stuff to be effective. Decarbed or not and, I made a batch containig lecithin and didn't see any increase in bio-availability. Same as "back dooring" a pill. It shouldn't work! Yeah right!! Give it a whirl and get back to me. The delta between both methods, one gives you your head rush (oral) while the other only a slight head rush but you can definitely feel the CBD acting on your body, as tingling sensation <--- read not at all unpleasant.

That being said... green flower vs decarbed flower, makes a huge difference. Mari pills and sublingual applications aren't "food" and don't necessarily require the liver, to process the THC. For those that question this statement, look it up :tiphat:

Trike_home · Feb 11, 2020

Good info, thanks! Ive always used a quarter teaspoon per 20grams of total solution (decarbed bho or rosin and mct oil)

Vaporizando192 · Mar 27, 2020

I'mback said:
@Vapo...
You need to research the subject away from here. e.g sunflower lecithin is better than using the GMO soy lecithin we find on the shelves. There is ton of info out there (seriously)

<<Although lecithin occurs naturally in many foods, lecithin supplements are typically derived from eggs, soy, or sunflower seeds. Lecithin is also obtained from canola, cottonseed, or animal fats.

Soy is one of the most widely-grown crops in the United States, and 94 percent of it is genetically modified. Soy is a cost-effective source of lecithin. Chemicals, including acetone and hexane, are used to extract the lecithin from soybean oil.

However, lecithin derived from sunflower oil is becoming increasingly popular, possibly due to requirements to declare allergens in foods. Also, those who wish to avoid genetically modified crops may choose sunflower lecithin. The extraction process is typically gentler and is carried out by cold pressing rather than with chemical solvents.>>

Furthermore, any fat can be used for absorption, through the liver because that is where it takes place. That being said, regular coconut oil has no where near the absorb-ability of MCT oil (medium chain triglycerides).

FME and research, lecithin is more akin to edibles than sublingual applications.

When it comes to salves, grape seed oil is your friend as it has greater penetrability through the skin. e.g it acts "deeper" Although most salves utilize olive or MCT oil, nothing beats grape seed oil.

I get accused of telling folks to "google" it. There is a reason During your research you will run across a lot more info than you will here. That being said, your research is only as good as the effort you put in to it.

It is not uncommon to run across points of interest, which you should be bookmarking for future use. That in itself will mlead you down further rabbit holes (POIs).

I make mari pills. Capsules made from raw decarbed flowers alone. Folks said I should not be getting anything out of them because a: they don't contain any type of fat;nor do they contain any lecithin. Let me tell you. You don't need that shit in order for the stuff to be effective. Decarbed or not and, I made a batch containig lecithin and didn't see any increase in bio-availability. Same as "back dooring" a pill. It shouldn't work! Yeah right!! Give it a whirl and get back to me. The delta between both methods, one gives you your head rush (oral) while the other only a slight head rush but you can definitely feel the CBD acting on your body, as tingling sensation <--- read not at all unpleasant.

That being said... green flower vs decarbed flower, makes a huge difference. Mari pills and sublingual applications aren't "food" and don't necessarily require the liver, to process the THC. For those that question this statement, look it up

Thx so much !!

Ringodoggie · Mar 27, 2020

I am with Bobby on the 'more the merrier' train. I use as much as I can in my recipes without it affecting taste or consistency. I use liquid sunflower lecithin.

I have tolerance issues and the lecithin is a great bioavailability enhancer so it really affects the 'potency'. I use as much as I can.

My avatar shows how I feel about the importance of lecithin in canna edibles.

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How much Lecithin in MCT sublingual tincture ?

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