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Turnkey WFE Still Units

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powerbong2000

Member
Curious if anyone on here has first hand experience with the pope, chemtech, or a similarly scaled and priced unit. Wondering they they really provide a great benefit over a pieced together unit in terms of throughput/ ease/ect.

Roji maybe?? I keep ogling that hard distillate.
 
HG23

HG23

Member
I went to the Helderpad seminar last month and checked out their KDL-6. The parent company, Chemtech Services, works closely with the petroleum industry and has built distillation columns that are multiple stories tall. They use only the best equipment in their stills. It seems with the necessary options, a properly outfitted KDL-6 will cost about 130k. They have all kinds of cool toys to go with it: heated feed plate, extra large collection flasks, and my favorite, a carousel of large tubes that spins inside a large flask so you can collect different fractions of distillate under varying conditions without breaking the system vacuum.

I messaged a few Chinese lab suppliers about short path gear/Kuglerohrs a few months ago but they said they couldn't make them. Now I notice there is one company offering wiped-film short path molecular stills on alibaba. They have a couple all stainless steel models that use electric heaters on the evaporator, which is similar to what the Pope unit uses. They also have a glass unit that uses heated oil on the evaporator which is what the Helderpad used. The engineer operating the unit at the seminar said the oil bath heaters are more precise versus the electric heaters and that while fun to watch, a glass evaporator operated at about half the speed of an all stainless unit due to heat transfer efficiency of the materials.

Also, the KDL-6 is equipped with separate oil heated jackets on the residue and distillate collection arms which helps with efficiency. It doesn't look like any of the Chinese units offer this option as it appears they have bare stainless arms on all units. Perhaps some kind of heat tape of something can be used.

The price is right for me on the Chinese units (about 20k) with vacuum setup and a metering pump on the feed side. However I'm too scared to risk both customs seizure and problems in the design/fitment/functionality being that it's the company's first attempt. Also not sure about the vacuum setup they offer.
 
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powerbong2000

Member
Mannnnn, I wonder if I am going to have to be the guy to pull the trigger on one of these units and either bite the bullet, or be a happy camper.
 
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powerbong2000

Member
Oh by the way, thanks for the great response HG! People are being pretty damn hush hush about this stuff, signing NDA's and generally expressing what Old Gold said.
 
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powerbong2000

Member
Oh shit, I just came up with an idea for a magnetic coupling for rollers on an jacketed evaporation vessel sidestepping the whole engineering problem of vac on bearings, OH SHIT GUYS! WILL YOU SIGN THIS NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT!?
 
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Old Gold

Active member
I'm not holding any secrets. I just didn't want to throw someone's name out there (like I had) for something they may or may not actually be involved in the production, design, etc. of.
What I can say is that there are surely one or two heads in the United States probably trying to design units that utilize a falling, wiped film. Timeframe? Nadaclue.

Let us know when you have pricing on that little guy from Alibaba.
I've received quote of 40-50k for a unit "built to order", so stainless or fiberglass options, different heating/cooling mechanisms, different pumps/controllers, vessel sizes and styles, but dunno the logistics of it getting through customs (or if domestic), nor do I know specifics on where the glassware, chillers, pumps, etc are coming from.
I'm not legitimately in the market for one, so really haven't pursued that for more info.
 
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Daub Marley

Daub Marley

Member
WFE are for ppl looking for serious volume output. If you need 1L/hr processed or more then you should start looking into WFE. You can process about a lb of distillate a day using standard spd set-up so everyone should start there and only then move on to WFE.
They still require periodic cleaning and maintenance which can take several days. Break a part you have to special order it and that can take weeks.
The falling film also does not get all the thc distilled from it and never will no matter how many times you re-distill it. SPD doesn't give complete separation and recovery of THC either but it costs a fraction of WFE systems. WFE systems are best suited to low cost oils like fish, biodiesel, etc. where you can get a fast distillation at volume and you're not too concerned with squeezing every last drop of oil out of it and can throw away a somewhat rich portion without too much worry.
 
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powerbong2000

Member
Oh hey old gold, wasn't meaning to razz you there. I remember what your post was before now and get why you edited.

Thanks for the advice Daub, I am more of an extreme hobbyist that is really into big fancy machines and their potential, rather than coming at it from a purely practical view. (lulz)

Quick off subject question. Are you/others using a rotovape with their short path glass, or are you requiring more vac than the rotary union can take? Just using a regular heating mantle?

This question really shows that I shouldn't get a WFE.....but.....that's just sorta how I roll.
 
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Old Gold

Active member
powerbong2000 said:
Oh hey old gold, wasn't meaning to razz you there. I remember what your post was before now and get why you edited.

Thanks for the advice Daub, I am more of an extreme hobbyist that is really into big fancy machines and their potential, rather than coming at it from a purely practical view. (lulz)

Quick off subject question. Are you/others using a rotovape with their short path glass, or are you requiring more vac than the rotary union can take? Just using a regular heating mantle?

This question really shows that I shouldn't get a WFE.....but.....that's just sorta how I roll.
Click to expand...

No worries, I figured I could make a more contributional post at this point lol.
Us "extreme hobbyists" have just as much potential/ability as perhaps a "qualified professional" and have all the time in the world to think and act on innovation.
Don't let them tell ya "You can't."
:dance013: :joint:
 
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snake11

Member
Avoid helderpad like the plague unless you want to be taken advantage of. You can get the same machine from chemtech for cheaper. Just call chemtech and say that you refuse to deal with the dishonest people at Helderpad. Helderpad is charging a premium to try and take advantage of the cannabis industry. Watch out for helderpad as they have screwed over quite a few people.
 
Daub Marley

Daub Marley

Member
I haven't seen any stirrers in the feed flask. You would think they would heat it a little and stir it to mix it well before letting it run down the column and distilling, but I haven't seen one that does that.
 
Rickys bong

Rickys bong

Member
Veteran
The feed flask usually functions as a degasser. Any components with higher boiling points boil off in the degasser othewise they foam violently in the higher vacuum still part. Large degassers might need agitation.

RB
 
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powerbong2000

Member
Ahhh, I have (almost) no lab distillation experience, but remember this concept from consulting on a drilling project where they used a huge vac degasser on mud to get laminar flow mud flow.

For "large" labscale feed flask would you use gas for agitation?
 
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icmagaccount

New member
Designing my own fully jacketed system and having a local scientific glass bowing company make it to avoid the long lead times I've received from the listed companies while asking for prices.

Anyone know of a wiper blade/motor source? Will pope/CTS/etc sell me just the wiper blade setup?
 
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