Washington cannabis cultural café

Donn · May 23, 2015

Hey Washington folks - what's up!?

So, here we are, living the life - legal, like we were hoping for when in a brief optimistic moment I joined NORML back in the '70s, and I'm super interested in how it can turn out, so thought it would be interesting to get some thoughts from people, maybe a sort of ongoing conversation where we can drop by from time to time and chip in, with a vignette of the life, or a tip on something that's about to happen.

I guess at this point, after maybe 6 months of meaningfully available legal weed where I am in Seattle, the cultural landscape as it were is still kind of dominated by the old scene, black market and medical. I know that's where a lot of us come from, but the I-502 legal world has the potential to be different, and that's what I think is really interesting, at a cultural level. I mean if you consider how "civilized" societies have adapted to alcohol for the last several thousand years, and cannabis is a lot more complex pharmacologically speaking ...

And for sense of mission, ask yourself how long we have, before we're swamped by the Altria, big pharmaceuticals, etc., and the synthetic corporate driven culture they'll hand us? Come on, let's dig in! Drop, in, say hi, show the flag.

What I hope this thread is not about, is legal advocacy etc. Maybe I-502 is botched, or not. That's covered elsewhere, and so are the other legislative actions. And I don't really mean to exclude non-Washington people, the only thing that's really specific here is that we're all looking at the same stuff on the shelves.

Donn · May 24, 2015

recreational CBD

recreational CBD

For example ... a couple days ago, I picked up a gram of "Dancehall", which tests 16% CBD and less than 1% THC. I wasn't really in any pain, other than my right shoulder has a sore spot that seems to come out when I ride my motorcycle, but it seemed like it would be a good thing to have around, in case.

And I was curious. This store has 10 different high CBD flowers at last count, the staff has their favorites, and they're talking about "recreational" use, not pain relief. For that matter, I believe they can't really talk about pain relief - the rules. So there's an interesting effect of I-502: the market for high CBD has been (I think) medical, and still is, but the recreational system can only speak to recreational applications, so they create a possibly imaginary recreational market for the stuff. Or is it real?

I didn't get high, and liked it. It's subtle. I could feel a trace of physical effect, body effects of cannabis. It was a very nice evening, I guess I would have felt great anyway? I will have to try it again some time when I feel lousy.

So anyone else ever use CBD for fun? Without prior experience with it as medication? Do they talk about that at your retail store? What kinds of settings - would you like it for partying, for example?

wrapface · May 24, 2015

excited about the dancehall too

DAT · May 25, 2015

HI,
I have gone to 2 rec stores in my town. Purple Haze and Kush Mart. They had a large selection and it was interesting to see the product and packaging. I grow my own so I am not wasting my money on purchasing any mj products.
I have been a medical card holder for 10 years . It would be really fun to try the stuff in the rec stores out but I get ripped off enough everyday just buying food and paying bills.

The legal scene has me kinda grossed out to be honest. the best part is just being relaxed more about smoking in my car. although I have a lot more burn holes in my seat.lol

Mknasty32 · May 25, 2015

I refuse to go to a store,
and feel that this closed door policy is shit..
freedom? Where?

snake11 · May 25, 2015

Fuck supporting Cartel 502.

lost360 · May 25, 2015

I will never support pesticide use and 502 can use all kinds so have fun they killing you and taking your money

Donn · May 25, 2015

I502 is more or less like any other kind of agriculture, the choice of organic vs. not is between the grower and consumer. Though there's no certification - growers say various things, including organic and beyond (one for example also avoids materials of animal origin), but naturally there's no USDA Organic certification - as far as the USDA is concerned, it's a Schedule 1 illegal drug!

Would you be in favor of some home-brew Washington State organic certification? I understand some California growers are "Clean Green" certified. The articles I see about that are a little vague on how pesticides are monitored, on a technical level, in the certification process. It's $2000 to be certified, and plenty of growers who say they're organic don't sign up.

For me, it's important mostly because we can't afford to trash the earth. Could turn out that all the organic vegetables I eat will prolong my life, but for example organic cotton is also a high priority because "conventional" cotton is extremely toxic. I lean towards the organic growers, but if they cheat and use miticides, at any rate most of us I-502 customers aren't getting all that much because we aren't heavy smokers. So certification would be ideal, but it isn't a deal breaker.

snake11 · May 25, 2015

Donn said:
I502 is more or less like any other kind of agriculture, the choice of organic vs. not is between the grower and consumer. Though there's no certification - growers say various things, including organic and beyond (one for example also avoids materials of animal origin), but naturally there's no USDA Organic certification - as far as the USDA is concerned, it's a Schedule 1 illegal drug!

Would you be in favor of some home-brew Washington State organic certification? I understand some California growers are "Clean Green" certified. The articles I see about that are a little vague on how pesticides are monitored, on a technical level, in the certification process. It's $2000 to be certified, and plenty of growers who say they're organic don't sign up.

For me, it's important mostly because we can't afford to trash the earth. Could turn out that all the organic vegetables I eat will prolong my life, but for example organic cotton is also a high priority because "conventional" cotton is extremely toxic. I lean towards the organic growers, but if they cheat and use miticides, at any rate most of us I-502 customers aren't getting all that much because we aren't heavy smokers. So certification would be ideal, but it isn't a deal breaker.

I502 is NOT like any normal agriculture. It is not a free market. They control who is allowed to play and the price of the cannabis. There will not be a large selection of farmers to choose between as there is with normal farmers.

Also saying that most i502 customers aren't getting all that much pesticides because they are not heavy smokers is ridiculous. If you buy rec that means your not a heavy smoker??? Do you have any facts to back this up or is this how YOU are?? We don't even know all the pesticides that are in the herb and the quantities. I know I don't want to smoke pesticides.

theJointedOne · May 25, 2015

I still haven't been to a recc store. I get everything black market. Why pay more for lesser quality.

I agree with an above poster in that the only benefit I see is more freedom to puff, which is very nice don't get me wrong.

IMHO Seattle, which dominates western WA's economic and social scene, is so blinded by the corporate greed which is plaguing this city, that all they want is $$$. Read the Seattle times, mostly conservative corporate articles, with a few liberal leaning additions to appease the aging, dying hippie generation here. 502 is just a money grab, and by trying to kill the med scene and have those users forced into taxed market is proof enough of such bullshit.

I gotta get back to CA...

Donn · May 25, 2015

I can see you don't like I-502, but we actually do have the choice to buy organic or not. Except for the certification. Certification cuts both ways - on one hand, harder to make fraudulent claims, on the other it picks a single definition of responsible agriculture and you either meet that standard or compete with the chemical boys.

The cost of I-502 product is a real bargain, for low tolerance occasional users. With a $15 gram, I can get everyone who could fit in my house high, and have some left over. For those who consume much larger quantities, it's likely prohibitively expensive. It follows from this that I-502 customers are not typically heavy smokers. I get that you don't like this either, but this is what we got, and it's working within its limitations. You don't have to get involved in it, but it's an opportunity to move forward. Honestly I think cannabis can make a positive difference given a chance, and this is a chance.

theJointedOne · May 25, 2015

The problem arises though when the powers at be tell you that their way is the only way.

You also must understand the history of cannabis prohibition and the toll it has taken on a large number of people.

Imagine being falsely imprisoned for life since you were able to remember, all of a sudden you are free from prison and released into the outside world, the only caveat being you were mandated to wear the same clothes for ever, never changing them.

Would you follow the rules, or wear what you wanted, giving the finger to the system that told you that you have to do it their way?

Donn · May 25, 2015

You do what you want. If you have issues with the I-502 system that keep you from going there, then that's what you do, but that doesn't make cannabis illegal for the rest of us, and it doesn't have much to do with what we're doing in the legal scene.

yortbogey · May 25, 2015

ah.... the legal scene... one big cluster fuck of republican greed, and over zealous politicians...I have yet to go to any REC, stores... I've held my medical card for so long I can't even remember...while i will acknowledge the reality of I502, brining pot into mainstream way of life for most of Seattle.... where as in other parts of the same state is't still very taboo....very much a difference in the western liberal point of view compared to the eastern conservative draconian out right BANS on REC retailers...even ones that had qualified for a state license have been screwed and turned away from certain counties that feel there above the law...and keep thinking in the 65 yr old point of view "what if the government"...comes and bust my little piss~ant town / operation....REALLY so narrow minded....there is currently many lawsuits over county moratoriums....and the idea of federal intervention is minimal....the feds are already watching the dollar signs in WA & CO,.......

BUT.... this all matter of little to me... I stay out of the nonsense... and focus own my own...I do like to splurge ever couple weeks and hit up one of the 2 cannabis farmers markets in Sea-town...much bigger selection... direct grower contact, and WAY better prices.....on big weekends I can look @ 40+ different vendors offering 150+ different selections...So why bother w/ a rec store.... and for me...
the most important thing is the customer interaction....so when dealing w/ a budtender of little knowledge my patience runs VERYvery thin......

and this whole idea of lumping medical in to I502.... well I'm very active in fighting that tooth and nail....before it's over the state will get the shit sued out of them for violating patience medical rights....

U think the sick and old w/ wheel chairs and oxygen bottles are going to stand in line w/ the bebop trendy Seattle greenlake crowd and pay for meds.... or vice versa....

it will never work.... let REC be REC, and stay the fuck out of my private medical concerns.....

Donn · May 25, 2015

Cannabis Technology Hackathon

Cannabis Technology Hackathon

Speaking of moving forward ...

I see there's an event here in Seattle next weekend, GrassRoots Cannabis Technology Hackathon, where for $100 you could pose as an engineer, designer or promoter (pick one) and form teams to dream up some commercial idea.

I guess this is business as usual these days, and probably $100 not very well spent for most of us, but ... can anyone say anything positive about this initiative? I mean - well, maybe let's have our own little hackathon here and see if we can think of any possible kind of developments, new profitable commercial ventures made by engineers, designers and promoters, that would make a positive contribution.

Or is this essentially parasitic all the way down the line, and this Hackathon itself is evidence of a cultural vacuum, kind of like the weeds that spring up in a newly cleared spot in the forest. Imagine a Wine Technology Hackathon - Eastern Washington is full of vineyards and wineries, why not? Because it would be stupid, is why not. I don't doubt there's a lot of technology going into the business, but it's based on knowledge and experience, not teams of clueless idea people whomping something up in a couple days. I'm desperate to see this kind of crap looking very small in the rear view mirror.

snake11 · May 25, 2015

Donn said:
You do what you want. If you have issues with the I-502 system that keep you from going there, then that's what you do, but that doesn't make cannabis illegal for the rest of us, and it doesn't have much to do with what we're doing in the legal scene.

It is this kind of selfish attitude that is hurting America. The it works well enough for me so fuck everyone else, like the cancer patients that are being screwed. Wa is screwing over medical patients. It affects a lot of people. Place yourself in others shoes and do the right thing not the selfish thing.

theJointedOne · May 25, 2015

Yort you got it right brother, its a corporate Republican money grab led by young money hungry assholes ( ie wannabes whove never even tended a plant) and the blind older generation getting led by these so called 'professionals'

Donn · May 25, 2015

So the situation here looks like, on "International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums", it's really impossible to conduct a conversation about what's going on within the I-502 legal cannabis scene, without being painted as a selfish Enemy of the People etc.

I'm going to continue to drop something in here once in a while, and if anyone's actually interested enough to join me in this selfish and destructive discussion of what's happening in legal cannabis, I hope you will be bold enough to risk the disapproval of our freedom-loving colleagues. Note that you don't actually have to participate in I-502, i.e., buy anything, just have something relevant to say. If you just entered at the top of this page, see end of previous page for a topic on a cannabis technology entrepreneur thing.

DAT · May 27, 2015

lets open a local coffee shop to smoke pot in! just like in Amsterdam.!!!!!!!!!

yortbogey · May 27, 2015

donn.... plz understand... it's not that WE hate !502...we just don't agree w/ one system for the entire population...medical came 1st... and yes while the system needs some tweeks, and official guidance for regulations and compliance....it's one thing to force medical dispensaries to get state licenses and pay tax's....fine by me...
BUT don't just lump the whole thing together and call it "done".....

as for this yuppie think tank U suggest.... fine, but still just another way for outsiders to look in...

if U'r not a grower U will never truly understand... it all comes from a seed...
but the reality is the industry is about MJ plants.... and growing needs to be the cornerstone of that foundation...it's been that way for yrs for most of us original black market underground....{where all this came from }...so for the trendy upswing crowd to wanna get on board but never understand growing.... is a grand far fetched leap indeed....

U cant be a butcher if U'r afraid of blood.... same as U cant be a cannathusisat, if U have never grown the plant.... it's a truly symbiotic relationship....

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