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Outdoor strains that finish in September?

TychoMonolyth

TychoMonolyth

Boreal Curing
Hashishh said:
Well I sprung and bought a pack of the Early Funk and a pack of the Manitoba Poison. I've also got a few White Widow autos hanging around collecting dust I'll have to germ as well.

Going to be an even busier spring/summer. Can't wait. I'll have to do some scouting during March and April and get some holes dug and soil mixed.
Click to expand...

Use Google earth to help you plan. Use the timeline feature to look at spring time water.
Another good tool is https://maps.ducks.ca/cwi/ zoom in to see details.
A physical visit is mandatory though (trust me on this).

There are lots of good geospatial interactive maps online. I'll get my info together and start a thread on it.




My project for this year is to put 2 hundred in the ground, collect pollen from the early males (and try to clone/reveg it), look for early female flower and cull everything else.

I have a load of South American equatorial landrace seeds that take 6 months from seed before they're ready to harvest. So about 24 week flowering cycle. That means 99% will die before they're ready to harvest. Hopefully a few will ripen early. I'll have my clone room ready for the one or two that will get pollen from the early males.

I'm not a breeder and don't know a whole lot about it, but I'm semi retired now so I can repeat every year going forward.

If someone in here thinks I'm wasting my time with this method, I'd appreciate a head's up with an alternative method if you have one.
 
Ibechillin

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
April 1st until October 1st would give you six months, when do you usually plant outdoors and need them done by Tycho?
 
TychoMonolyth

TychoMonolyth

Boreal Curing
Remember... outdoor flowering doesn't start until August at the earliest here. It's all veg time before that. Technically, June 21st is when days start getting longer, but flowering doesn't kick in overnight.

So if growing in the tropics, with near 12/12 light all year, they start flowering right away. Not so in the great white north. Flowering August to October is only 12 weeks. They need 24 I'm told. I'm starting to think I shouldn't waste my time on it.
 
Ibechillin

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
I know how it works Tycho haha, were close too Im just north of ya at 47N. Only way I could see it doable would be to start them 12/12 from seed indoors relatively soon then put them out after the June solstice and hope for the best haha (not easy with 200!). If it were me id just do a few smaller indoor seed runs to select early finishers/keepers or collect pollen from and outcross them to a very different strain that does well in your area outdoors.
 
big315smooth

big315smooth

mama tried
Veteran
grew gorilla gold done august 20 to september 10 big loose buds no mold great stone decent taste first few hits with goo cure. all round good strain. i wanna grow it again
 
TychoMonolyth

TychoMonolyth

Boreal Curing
Ibechillin said:
I know how it works Tycho haha, were close too Im just north of ya at 47N. Only way I could see it doable would be to start them 12/12 from seed indoors relatively soon then put them out after the June solstice and hope for the best haha (not easy with 200!). If it were me id just do a few smaller indoor seed runs to select early finishers/keepers or collect pollen from and outcross them to a very different strain that does well in your area outdoors.
Click to expand...
LOL! I know you do. I was thinking out loud out of habit and for lurking newbies. :biggrin:

Awesome idea starting 12/12 indoor and time the move for SOME of them outdoor. :)

I'll do some indoor too (I have the space). I have to learn how to grow indoor anyway. :tiphat:
 
Spaventa

Spaventa

...
Veteran
growshopfrank said:
Here is a project.
Isolate the hormone that flowering plants emit that causes other nearby plants to flower.
Click to expand...

Cytokinins are the class of hormones that stimulate flower production.
The balance between them and auxins, the hormones that stimulate rooting and vegetive growth, controls the transition to flower. I’m working on a similar project myself... only the other way round! I’m trying to work out how to keep autos in veg :)

Obviously, we know auxins can be used effectively by topical application in the form of rooting powders and gels so it’s entirely plausible that Cytokinins could be.

Ethylene plays a major role in ripening. This may become relevant also.

I’m more interested in the precursors because I would rather feed them something that makes the plants produce the hormones themselves. It would have several advantages but the main one would be ease and scalability for larger projects. Adding a chemical to an irrigation system is very easy compared to spraying the plants. Spraying anything on plants can be problematic.
 
BadTicket

BadTicket

ØG T®ipL3 ØG³
Moderator
Veteran
I grow outdoor @ 61N in Finland, climate and conditions sound about the same. It's challenging for sure, but totally doable with the right strains, a good spot and a can do attitude. Keeping your plants healthy and fed goes a long way in a season where you can't waste time on deficiencies and whatever might cause your plants to stall. Plus, a healthy plant can take the elements way better than an unhealthy one.
I'd recommend checking out some of those Danish strains that people already mentioned, faster ones are good here, so I'd imagine they would work in northern Canada, too.
People who say it can't be done without light dep or flowering indoors prolly never tried in the first place, or failed for whatever reason. I grew random bag seeds outdoor when i was 16. If you had asked that guy if it's possible to get buds outside in the north, he woulda said no. But then he didn't know much about shit to begin with. Now a days, after all these years, after all the grows, failed or successful, I'm telling you it can be done if you put some thought and effort to it. No worries, m8.

picture.php
 
Y

yahooman

Well-known member
TychoMonolyth said:
Remember... outdoor flowering doesn't start until August at the earliest here. It's all veg time before that. Technically, June 21st is when days start getting longer, but flowering doesn't kick in overnight.

So if growing in the tropics, with near 12/12 light all year, they start flowering right away. Not so in the great white north. Flowering August to October is only 12 weeks. They need 24 I'm told. I'm starting to think I shouldn't waste my time on it.
Click to expand...

actually after june 21st the days start to get shorter again
 
Y

yahooman

Well-known member
id try real gorilla seeds,they have some nice early strains.....fast diesel is excellent i hear,ive done mighty freeze and it is awesome as well,small yielder though.buds look indoor
ive ran arnres cheese and its done by late september and is a huge bush...its not really potent,but nice day time weed
 
Ibechillin

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
Spaventa said:
Cytokinins are the class of hormones that stimulate flower production.
The balance between them and auxins, the hormones that stimulate rooting and vegetive growth, controls the transition to flower. I’m working on a similar project myself... only the other way round! I’m trying to work out how to keep autos in veg :)

Obviously, we know auxins can be used effectively by topical application in the form of rooting powders and gels so it’s entirely plausible that Cytokinins could be.

Ethylene plays a major role in ripening. This may become relevant also.

I’m more interested in the precursors because I would rather feed them something that makes the plants produce the hormones themselves. It would have several advantages but the main one would be ease and scalability for larger projects. Adding a chemical to an irrigation system is very easy compared to spraying the plants. Spraying anything on plants can be problematic.
Click to expand...

Flower transition is caused by the phytochromes due to light/darkness. Slownickel has advised to not use Cytokinins after week 3 flower (stretch) or auxin after week 1 flower.

slownickel said:
Be careful when buying seaweeds. There are good ones and ones that have little value. Also, where to apply them and when is an issue.

For example, applying a cytokinin to the roots will actually tend to stall the plants. Roots get lazy. Always apply cytokinin seaweeds foliarly. Small quantities constantly and mixed with other foliars. The best cytokinin source on the market is North American Kelp, Seacrop 16. It has the highest guaranteed cytokinin level on the planet, 400ppms. This should be used from veg up through week 3 of flower.

For root applications, you really want to use an auxin seaweed source. So far, the only one that I have been able to find in the US is Kelpak. This applied to roots and foliage, forces more roots. Don't use it after week 1 of flower. All through veg is great.

We did side by side tests. Been through the bunch, Acadian, Maxi, SM6 (UK) and a few I can't remember. many folk won't get a lot of response from a good seaweed product if they really don't have their nutrition dialed in. That means having enough Ca and P most times. Most folk don't. All the seaweed in the world can't get you past the big problems. This is why many say, oh, tried it and I didn't see much. But that can also come from low hormone content. Many seaweed products aren't actually made for fertilizer use
Click to expand...

The phytochromes are a family of chromoproteins with a linear tetrapyrrole chromophore, similar to the ringed tetrapyrrole light-absorbing head group of chlorophyll. Phytochromes have two photo-interconvertible forms: Pr and Pfr.

Pr absorbs red light (~660nm - ~729nm) and is immediately converted to Pfr.

Pfr absorbs far-red light (~730nm - ~800nm) and is quickly converted back to Pr.

Pfr naturally converts to Pr in darkness over time (after about 2 - 2.5 hours)

Absorption of red or far-red light causes a massive change to the shape of the chromophore, altering the conformation and activity of the phytochrome protein to which it is bound. Pfr is the physiologically active form of the protein; therefore, exposure to red light yields physiological activity. Exposure to far-red light inhibits phytochrome activity. Together, the two forms represent the phytochrome system.

picture.php


Unfiltered sunlight is rich in red light but deficient in far-red light. Therefore, at sunrise, all the phytochrome molecules in a leaf quickly convert to the active Pfr form, and remain in that form until sunset. In the dark, the Pfr form takes hours to slowly revert back to the Pr form. By sensing the Pr/Pfr ratio at sunrise, a plant can determine the length of the day/night cycle. In addition, leaves retain that information for several days, allowing a comparison between the length of the previous night and the preceding several nights. If the night is long (as in winter), all of the Pfr form reverts. If the night is short (as in summer), a considerable amount of Pfr may remain at sunrise.

Link to source:

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/ivytech-bio1-1/chapter/plant-responses-to-light/

So to clear up any confusion:

Its the ratio of how much time either Pr or Pfr is the active phytochrome that dictates the flowering response in short day plants like cannabis.

Red light between 660nm - 729nm converts Pr in the plant to Pfr which helps the plant remain in veg.

Infra red light between 730nm - 800nm converts Pfr in the plant to Pr which helps the plant begin flowering.

Naturally at sundown/lights out it takes around 2 - 2.5 hours of uninterrupted darkness before PFR begins converting to PR. Then the plant needs 10 more hours uninterrupted darkness to shift towards flowering expression totaling 12 hours dark. My research suggests blasting plants with 730nm far red for 30 minutes after sundown/lights off will force plants to flower with only 10 hours darkness since your not having to wait the extra 2 hours for PFR to convert to PR naturally. This could be used to make outdoor and greenhouse plants begin and finish flowering earlier in the season, have not tried it myself.
 
Spaventa

Spaventa

...
Veteran
Ibechillin, you reference feeding plants hormones from other sources. I don’t propose to feed them hormones, from seaweed or any source.
Phytochrome is a pigment. It’s a precursor, not the active hormone responsible for flowering.
It’s role is in the sensing duration of light exposure or day length... it accumulates during the dark. It is part of the very mechanism I want to negate or circumvent by stimulating the plants own hormone production directly by other, chemical means and flower independently of day length.
 
big315smooth

big315smooth

mama tried
Veteran
TychoMonolyth said:
Loose? You mean airy? And are these RealGorilla seeds?
Click to expand...

Ya big loose nugs, plants were 3-4 feet tall small little plant averaged 4-6 ounces. Seeds came from hemp depot bank outta ontario 6-8 yrs ago.got rid all of it kept alittle shoulda got rid alittle kept all! pretty sure it was gold#3 or #5 smoke alot seed coulda been the breeder. also tried friesland and m39 outta montreal. and asshole and jamaican skunk from wild rose seeds out of ontario dont think he breeds anymore though those were the 4 best earliest mold resistant outdoors in upstate ny i ran.
 
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