Advanced seed germination techniques

So as the title says I'm looking for information on or hoping to create a solid discussion pertaining to germinating the healthiest seedlings in the timeline at manner. Goal is taproot vigor, and thickness , as well as lush healthy first set of false leaves and first set of true leaves. We any to create the strongest plant possible all throughout its life cycle but it seems when it comes to germination as long as there is a little bit of taproot protruding or cracked shell everyone is happy and sticks them in medium of choice with nothing but dreams of dank ransom the future. I would like to get as far away from this as possible.I too didn't think it mattered and shit to many it still may not but hopefully for the people in this forum it will.

So what I am talking about here is adding some extras to our germ processes whichever they may be. Mine in particular includes presoaking for 12 hrs or until all seeds are sunk and then placing then into a light soil mix. Usually no issues whatsoever ratio wise but I came across a picture today of seeds on steroids and it was the loveliest sight I've seen. They weren't literally on steroids but these lil babies are the closest resemblance to the hulk I've seen. The secret -- soak in koi pond water outdoors for a week!?!? This is the first ever I've heard of presoaking seeds for before and it really got me thinking. Why would we ever just soak in water when we feed our ladies all these lovely organic teas all throughout its life. Surely there has to be some additives which can make these lil guys flourish right from the beginning. The koi water immediately flooded my brain into the possibilities of soaking in an aloe leaf/water concoction, and ice water extract tea concoction, and finally a willow water conction. I know the first and last are god organic cloning methods but I'm excited to see how the bacterias and extended soaking length will affect the germ rates. I've so heard warm day cold night are clutch. Would love some feedback haven't heard of anything like this in the past but the more opinions the better. I will try and get pics up of my experent as well as the hulk babies I found on insta.

Or you could try Coots seed start recipe for old or difficult to germinate seeds:

12 oz. pure coconut water
1 oz. BioAg Ful-Power (pure Fulvic acid)
1 oz. Aloe vera juice

Fill to 1 gallon with the cleanest, purest water you can get your hands on.

Soak your seeds for 24 - 36 hours and then strain.



dank.Frank

Here's my smorgasbord of [advanced?] seed germination techniques:

1 - Seed scarification (scuffing)

2 - 12-hour pre-soak in a solution of:
- pH neutral water (chlorine & chloramine free) (1 Gal.)
- Gibberelic Acid (75 ppm = roughly 1/8th tsp/gal)
- Wright's Liquid Smoke - Hickory (contains karrakinolides) (7.5 tsp/gal)
- L-Glycine Amino Acid (synergistic interaction w/ karrakinolides) (1/4 gram)
- L-Aspartic Acid (1/4 gram)
- L-Glutamic Acid (1/4 gram)
- L-Phenylaninine (1/4 gram)
- L-Lysine Amino Acid (1/4 gram)
- OptiFlora PreBiotic Complex (contains fructooligosaccharides, Vitamin E) (1 tbsp)
- Dirt M.D. Activated Liquid Humic/Fulvic Acid (1/4 tsp)
- Botanicare / Fulvex Trace Mineral Extract (1/4 tsp)
- Botanicare / Liquid Karma (1/4 tsp)
- Microbe Life / Nourish-L Liquid Organic Rare Earth Humus Conditioner & Cypress Lignin (1/4 tsp)
- Flora USA/HB-101 (1/2 tsp/gal.)

3 - Fresh banana peels in the enclosed germinating environment (produces ethylene)

Spme links in re: Karrikinolides:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21280622
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0095109

thats a lotta snake oil for something so simple.

i use 1 shot glass, tap water, seeds.

take shot glass, fill 75% with water. drop in seeds. dunk a couple times to moisturize. leave in a warm location for 24 hours. in 24 hours dunk all the seeds again, most if not all should stay on the bottom. come back in 24 more hours. you should see the shells cracked open and some will have tails coming out. if they are cracked/ showing tails plant em.

for anything left uncracked, gently crack the seam on the seed with your teeth. (more control than trying to do it with your hands) after you crack the seams soak for another 24. if they haven't started showing tails or swelling to the point where the shell is visibly open (like a clam) i would just write those off. if they still aren't ready after 72 hours in water they are most likely not viable.

after 24 hours you will notice the water in the shot glass has gotten cloudy/milky i can't presume to know what this is, i'm guessing some sort of enzymes released by the seed shell to aid in germination. but if you want you can pour that off and replace with fresh water. but by 48hrs if you haven't taken the seeds out you will want to change the water out of there, it gets a little disgusting and probably undergoing some sort of decomposition cycle by then.

also i'm confused about these seeds on steroids you mention. you know the size of the seed doesn't change when you soak it in water right? unless maybe you're talking about beans which aren't shelled seeds. the 2 halves of the bean are literally the embryonic first leaves. it's what you would see if you cracked open a marijuana seed.

i don't see how any of this stuff people are suggesting cept maybe the enzymes on thousand year old seeds (which were most likely carefully removed from the shells before applying these enzymes since the shell doesn't actually do anything, it's like a safe on a time lock and the timer is reset with water. inside the safe is what needs all the enzymes and shit to be replaced so it can grow.) is actually going to help in everyday cases.

everything the seed needs is in the embryo. if it doesn't suck up the water and start growing after the shell is opened. then it's most likely dead.

These things give the emerging plant a healthy edge. They wont fall prey to damping off and will be able to start off expressing its full genetic potential and vigor at least to the point of what the mother was able to pass on to the progeny. If mom was in tip top health this will allow the seeds to blast off and ensure a bountiful harvest. Everything you do to a plant from the time it pops til harvest matters. Stress along the way even as a seedling diminishes the end yield. If you want to know more on the subject Ill post some links for you to listen/read...

Pretty sure the thread is called "Advanced seed germination techniques"

Not everyone is looking for a "KISS" solution

from the link...

from the link...

from the link posted earlier

Product Brief
Initiate
™
Seed germination enhancer
and microbial stimulant
Initiate™ is a blend of trace minerals and biostimulants which can speed germination, enable more
even and consistent germination and improve seedling health and vigor.


Initiate provides a supply of plant-available trace minerals
which are easily absorbed to enable faster cell division to
enhance initial growth.
Initiate stimulates activity in inoculated and native soil
microbes so that they release more minerals to the growing
plant.
In addition, Initiate improves nutrient absorption by the
seed, raises plant stress tolerance and promotes the growth
of larger and stronger root systems

Click to expand...

Initiate is carefully formulated from naturally sourced trace
minerals and natural biostimulants, including seaweed and
sea minerals.
Initiate contains many trace minerals, enzymes, amino acids
and other plant growth promoting compounds in a form
which can be easily absorbed by seeds.
The compounds contained in Initiate can aid in softening
the seed coat and neutralizing the germination inhibitors
that are naturally contained in the seed coat, both of which
can promote faster and more even germination.

Click to expand...

i thought germinating seeds in water was pretty advanced compared to in the ground or paper towels like i used to do. :shrugs: the germination part is just where the shell cracks and the taproot starts growing right?

What 1s Germination?
By definition, germination incorporates those events that
commence with the uptake of water by the quiescent dry
seed and terminate with the elongation of the embryonic
axis (Bewley and Black, 1994). The visible sign that germination
is complete is usually the penetration of the structures
surrounding the embryo by the radicle; the result is often
called visible germination. Subsequent events, including the
mobilization of the major storage reserves, are associated
with growth of the seedling. Virtually ali of the cellular and
metabolic events that are known to occur before the completion
of germination of nondormant seeds also occur in
imbibed dormant seeds; indeed, the metabolic activities of
the latter are frequently only subtly different from those of
the former. Hence, a dormant seed may achieve virtually all
of the metabolic steps required to complete germination, yet
for some unknown reason, the embryonic axis (i.e., the radicle)
fails to elongate.

Click to expand...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC156979/pdf/091055.pdf

"More even germination" meaning consistency in numbers. This product is geared toward farmers who plant acres of seeds.
I assume this is what you were confused about?

No doubt soaking in water is more technical than plugging a seed directly in the dirt.

Here DL these and listen while driving, I like to listen while Im in the garden.
Maybe you have already Ive posted this multiple times but this is the stuff Im referring to.


2013 Soil & Nutrition Conference: Putting Principles into Practice
John Kempf: Part 1/ Part 2/Part 3/Part 4http://www.bionutrient.org/audio/2013_soil_nutrition_conference/d-01-31-2013-JohnKempf.mp3

Dan Kittredge

http://www.bionutrient.org/audio/2013_soil_nutrition_conference/g-02-01-2013-DerekandDan.mp3

http://www.bionutrient.org/audio/2013_soil_nutrition_conference/h-02-01-2013-DanDerekandJohn.mp3

http://www.bionutrient.org/audio/2013_soil_nutrition_conference/i-02-01-2013-DanDerekandJohn.mp3

The next time I germinate seeds, I'm going to do about an 8 hour soak in Sea Crop, Karma, Coconut milk, FulPower. Then I will plant them in a good organic potting soil, diluted with perlite, seed laying on soil with a 1/8" covering. Watered in with an inoculant like Great White or whatever, and the same water as the presoak.

If you want to crack them, a good way is to use tiny Vise Grips adjusted so they don't close all the way. I have some 3" Vise Grips. They're so cute. Good luck. -granger

June, 2016
I no longer do it that way. The water additives cause crazy fungal growth. I now plant them 1/2" deep because I was having trouble with the seed shell not coming off, which the greater depth fixed. -granger

what are you talking like acres? if so then yeah it makes sense to use all the extra you can get to increase that hit%. thought you meant just germinating seeds in general.

BigBozat said:

Here's my smorgasbord of [advanced?] seed germination techniques:

1 - Seed scarification (scuffing)

2 - 12-hour pre-soak in a solution of:
- pH neutral water (chlorine & chloramine free) (1 Gal.)
- Gibberelic Acid (75 ppm = roughly 1/8th tsp/gal)
- Wright's Liquid Smoke - Hickory (contains karrakinolides) (7.5 tsp/gal)
- L-Glycine Amino Acid (synergistic interaction w/ karrakinolides) (1/4 gram)
- L-Aspartic Acid (1/4 gram)
- L-Glutamic Acid (1/4 gram)
- L-Phenylaninine (1/4 gram)
- L-Lysine Amino Acid (1/4 gram)
- OptiFlora PreBiotic Complex (contains fructooligosaccharides, Vitamin E) (1 tbsp)
- Dirt M.D. Activated Liquid Humic/Fulvic Acid (1/4 tsp)
- Botanicare / Fulvex Trace Mineral Extract (1/4 tsp)
- Botanicare / Liquid Karma (1/4 tsp)
- Microbe Life / Nourish-L Liquid Organic Rare Earth Humus Conditioner & Cypress Lignin (1/4 tsp)
- Flora USA/HB-101 (1/2 tsp/gal.)

3 - Fresh banana peels in the enclosed germinating environment (produces ethylene)

Spme links in re: Karrikinolides:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21280622
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0095109

Click to expand...

Ethephon seed treatment in lieu of #3 above.

I like to make sure mine chill out in the fridge for a couple months.

Sorry if I got too technical.

Peace

Don't forget good environment, light for example. If growing them for outdoors I like to use full outdoor sun from day one. For moms or indoor I prefer to start under MH light, also if I am starting a big batch on their own(vs say some in my veg room with other older plants) I like to start the light at 14on 10off and ramp that up to my normal veg scduale. Also given a chose lower temps and higher humidity. I dont do everything each time, sometimes they get started under floros of put off to the side of moms. Quicker growth sometimes does not equal healthier growth.

I also think the deeper containers you can use for your starts the better, or it takes some practice to not over water but if you can start in your final containers they seem to benefit from roots not slowing down. Sometimes this is not feasible due to space constraints. Some of the best outdoor seed plants I grew were started in there final hole(gorilla grown).

@FlaCaEnt - More directly in re: your stated goal(s) of "taproot vigor, and thickness , as well as lush healthy first set of false leaves and first set of true leaves", I found this:

Promotive Effects of DCPTA on Seedling Development and Growth...

Abstract:
"Compared with controls, seed treatment using 30 μM DCPTA significantly (P = 0.05) enhanced the rates of root
and hypocotyl elongation and seedling dry weight. Enhanced hypocotyl development by DCPTA showed a significant
linear correlation (r = 0.83) with the increased taproot yield of mature plants grown from DCPTA-treated seeds.
The harvestable taproot yield and harvest index of plants grown from seeds treated with 30 μM DCPTA were increased
109% and 38%, respectively, as compared with controls."


Haven't tried this myself (among other things: where do I get DCPTA?)- actually, hadn't even seen/heard/thought of this before FlaCaEnt raised the question.

Didn't see any refs to DCPTA elsewhere on the forums, either... which is surprising given the deep & broad knowledge that seems prevalent here. Maybe shaggyballs or others with experimental proclivities over in the PGR threads would take on?

@Goat -

Yeah, cold treatment/stratification is a long-time, well-known seed germination enhancement strategy...

But, I thought it was generally only applicable to perennials, trees & shrubs?
(Cannabis is an annual, so...)

Anyone got studies (I haven't looked yet) and/or side-by-side test experience to confirm goat's method? I'm always up for adding another technique, if it works.

@FlaCaEnt - bump... pics of experiment & the Hulks?

Scarification not stratification I believe, not to be an ass I make mistakes like that more than most.

I haven't seen the pics but I would guess they would be strain/genetic related not expert starts.