Boosting THC — Extended Decarb Increased Potency

MWPierce · Mar 16, 2017

Hopefully this is interesting and perhaps useful to add to the forum.

Many posts on here worry about overcooking Cannabis-oil thinking that a significant portion of THC oxidizes to CBN.

THC actually seems to me to be a fairly robust compound, from some testing results that I've obtained recently.

Recently I had been able to obtain some decent, mid-grade indica at a reasonable price, and then extracted the Cannabis-oil into a concentrate to use for oil dabs, in edibles, etc.

Once the extract was purged, I heated it in an 'double-bath' arrangement in a fondue cooker to precisely control the heat applied in a narrow range of 4°-5°C, for an extended period of time. I used a digital thermometer inserted into the oil-bath to monitor the temperature fairly precisely, and in a controlled manner.

Here are the test results from a certified test lab (in Washington State) for decarbing for 8 hours at 122°C (248°F).

CANNABINOID PRE-decarb POST-decarb %CHANGE
THC 71.91% 79.15% +7.24%
CBN 0.69% 1.09% +0.50%
CBC 0.88% 1.02% +0.16%
CBG 1.51% 1.96% +0.45%
THCV 0.37% 0.36% -0.01%

Very Interesting results after 8 hours of cooking —> THC and other active cannabinoids have increased during the extended heating cycle.

=>> THC has increased significantly during the process, while at the same time CBN barely crept up, so fears here appear to be overblown.

Digital Man · Mar 16, 2017

Just to confirm ......... you tested after purging ... THEN tested AGAIN post decarbing?

w3rds · Mar 16, 2017

One question.

Did you cut a piece from the slab, have it tested, then weigh the slab, decarb it, weigh it again, and then break off a piece to test? If not, I'm worried your results are skewed. If there is a differential between the weight before and after decarb, we an assume that other parts of the sample(non-cannabinoids) had a lower than 245°F boiling point and evaporated during the decarboxylation process. So, while the percentages may be higher, it's the same dosage of cannabinoids.

Does that thought process make sense?

flatslabs · Mar 16, 2017

There is no THCA in the pre-decarb sample?

MWPierce · Mar 16, 2017

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Just to confirm ......... you tested after purging ... THEN tested AGAIN post decarbing?[/FONT]

I used the typical QWET extraction with Everclear, and purged it by essentially boiling off the ethanol in a double boiler setup.
I monitored the temperature with a digital thermometer in the bath, so as to keep it within a fairly narrow temperature window.

I can see three different evaporation phases occuring (EtOH, H20, CO2), and after getting to the very small bubbles of CO2, I took a sample from the oil designated PRE-decarb, into a cleaned, sterile silicon cup.

Then the 8 hour countdown began, with frequent monitoring of the temperature and the consistency of the oil. After 8 hours of cooking in a range of 120 – 124 degrees C, I took the sample designated 'POST-decarb', into another sterile silicon cup.

The main difference between the 2 samples being that the oil had been maintained at 122 degrees C for 8 hours of duration for the 2nd sample.

MWPierce · Mar 16, 2017

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]One question.

Did you cut a piece from the slab, have it tested, then weigh the slab, decarb it, weigh it again, and then break off a piece to test? If not, I'm worried your results are skewed. If there is a differential between the weight before and after decarb, we an assume that other parts of the sample(non-cannabinoids) had a lower than 245°F boiling point and evaporated during the decarboxylation process. So, while the percentages may be higher, it's the same dosage of cannabinoids.

Does that thought process make sense? [/FONT]

A) I only worked with Cannabis-oil for this decarb test.
Kept in small beaker, in the oil-bath, at 122C for 8 hours, then sampled.

MWPierce · Mar 16, 2017

flatslabs said:
There is no THCA in the pre-decarb sample?

Yes, that is correct.
Evidently from the Cannabinoids Profile results my 'PRE-Decarb' was actually 0 hours of cooking after the oil had essentially been decarbed.

I was watching the formation of the medium-small sized bubbles which were still forming on the edges of the beaker at the surface, and didn't take the 'PRE-decarb' sample until after there were no more medium-small bubbles, and only the very small bubbles of CO2 on the surface (there weren't many).

'PRE-Decarb' could also be thought of as '122C_0.0hrs' cooking.

This was a test to see how much THC would convert to CBN if the Cannabis-oil was cooked too long.

w3rds · Mar 16, 2017

But did you measure the Total Volume before and after decarboxylation? If you originally had 2cc of oil that was 75% THC and after decarb you had 1.98cc of oil that is 77% THC then that means you boiled off non-cannabinoids rather than making the existing cannabinoids "more potent". Basically stating that decarboxylation can just be used as another step of purging...

flatslabs · Mar 16, 2017

The lack of THCA in the original sample means nothing was decarboxylated at all, so this is basically just evaporation of other non-cannabinoids from what I can tell.

MWPierce · Mar 16, 2017

w3rds said:
But did you measure the Total Volume before and after decarboxylation? If you originally had 2cc of oil that was 75% THC and after decarb you had 1.98cc of oil that is 77% THC then that means you boiled off non-cannabinoids rather than making the existing cannabinoids "more potent". Basically stating that decarboxylation can just be used as another step of purging...

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I appreciate your comments, thanks so much for your insights.

[/FONT] The purpose for me in performing this test[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] — m[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]any posts on here worry about overcooking Cannabis-oil thinking that a significant portion of THC oxidizes to CBN.

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This was a test to see how much THC would convert to CBN if the Cannabis-oil was cooked for a long time at a fairly high temp.
The results after 8 hours of heat at 122°C (248°F), provides some evidence that fears of THC converting to CBN are overblown.

In my opinion, CBN formation was not too significant, and I was expecting to see a larger percentage of THC transform to CBN, based on all the comments that I've read.

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

MWPierce · Mar 16, 2017

flatslabs said:
The lack of THCA in the original sample means nothing was decarboxylated at all, so this is basically just evaporation of other non-cannabinoids from what I can tell.

Indeed your correct, in the PRE-decarb test, there is a minor component of THCA, so it is mostly decarbed-oil at the point that I sampled it to begin the test.
In the original post it was easier to call them 'PRE-decarb' & 'POST-decarb' (more understandable by casual readers) because that was easier than calling them '122C_0.0hrs' & '122C_8.0hrs', which don't mean much to most people I think.

I'm in agreement with you that some organic compounds are evaporated off from the concentrate.
The temperature was maintained at a fairly low temp so that not many cannabinoids would be boiled off.

=>> CBN formation was not too significant, I was expecting to see a larger percentage of THC convert to CBN.

blastfrompast · Mar 16, 2017

There are lab results from 48h that go hand in hand with what your saying, i've posted here a few times....

~star~crash~ · Mar 16, 2017

original poster...thanks for the useful info :tiphat:

appreciate the effort & the results

angelgoob · Mar 17, 2017

I wonder if light degrades THC to CBN?

TerpChild · Mar 17, 2017

In this thread
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7638690&postcount=144
sadpanda found through using TLC that about 80 mins of decarb was optimal. Its also a really interesting read if you dont know what thin layer chromatography is or how its used to test cannabanoid levels. I have been decarbing at 250 for 90 mins for a long time making edible oils and it works well. I know this is not specifically in regard to cbn conversion but thought some nembers might find the linked post educational.

Shaman101 · Mar 17, 2017

Very misleading title indeed! Lol

Your graphs show that youve furthered the decarb process with the 8hrs.

MWPierce · Mar 19, 2017

blastfrompast said:
There are lab results from 48h that go hand in hand with what your saying, i've posted here a few times....

@blastfrompast — Saw this post of yours, "heat alone wont do it....24 hours at 122'C at least didnt..."

Similar to original post, another small batch was heated on a coffee warmer, at constant temp of 76°-77°C, for a long weekend.

Here are the test results — heating for 72 hours at 76°C (169°F):

CANNABINOID 0_Hrs 72_Hrs %-CHANGE
THC-A 2.51% 0.00% -2.51%
THC 51.64% 65.81% 14.17%
CBN 2.01% 2.44% +0.43%
CBC 1.24% 1.83% +0.59%
CBG 2.00% 2.38% +0.38%
THCV 1.07% 1.39% +0.32%

=>> Results here and yours too indicate that heat, at or below 124°C (255°F), applied to cannabinoid-oil, does not reduce the THC drastically.
.

MWPierce · Mar 19, 2017

Shaman101 said:
Very misleading title indeed! Lol

Your graphs show that youve furthered the decarb process with the 8hrs.

The title, "Boosting THC — Extended Decarb Increased Potency", was what came to mind when posting.
I was in a 'Cannabinoid Percentage' and not 'Total Quantity' mindset due to the results reports.
.

Phaeton · Mar 19, 2017

I have made a 60% THC oil for many years. Occasionally trying sprays or tinctures, such as the discontinued Ethanol/THC breath freshener, or glycol/THC cartridge for transducer devices.

Mixing the two, kosher Propylene Glycol USP, and THC oil in a sublingual spritzer is my latest. Ethanol was tried under the tongue, it burns, IT BURNS.
A ten percent solution functioned but took three sprays. A twenty percent solution had the oil congealing out when cooled.
Fifteen percent was just right.

Worried about heat death, the oil has always been decarbed for an hour at 180 F (82 C). Then I read this thread.

1,2 propanediol boils at 388 C so I dumped three containers (90 ml total, 15 grams oil) back into a beaker and heated it to 250 F and held it there for twenty minutes. Putting the vacuum to it at that temperature boiled out five grams of the total weight.
That would be from the THC oil, which was mentioned to test at 60% THC. Large terpenes are most of the rest, easily guessed, but being able to safely boil them out is a revelation to me. After twenty minutes of vacuum at 250 F there was no more boiling.
This is still just too hot, anything above boiling water is ingrained deep in my heart as death to the high. If anything this comes on a bit stronger.

250 for twenty it will be in the future. Smaller yields, increased potency.
Water curing regular bud has the same effect, increases potency by removing all the "other" resulting in less total weight but the same amount of THC in the weight.

~star~crash~ · Mar 19, 2017

i also was concerned about heat death ...lol... while purging the dissolved ethanol out from solution of my extract via a double boiler...guess it's ok to just let it go as long as i need...'cause you can't overkill it @ a mere 212 degrees Fahrenheit? this what i'm reading? i kinda thought i'd be losing terps from an extended heat purge vs. a thin and wide film evaporation under room temps,but both ways result in lots of flavor

Boosting THC — Extended Decarb Increased Potency

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