Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

y'all need to check out:
http://stores.ebay.com/Sunshine-Gardens
if you're having issues finding straight imid (merit) or bTi.
they've got the best prices i could find, short of a wholesale account, and if you call the lady down in florida (rather than ordering online) she'll give you an additional discount.

BigSwifty said:

I know a lot people say pyrethrum doesn't work, but I wonder if they're using it correctly. If you're using Fox Farms Don't Bug Me and trying to dilute it with water and use it as drench then good luck!! That spray is already diluted. You need a CONCENTRATED liquid pyrethrum that you can mix up yourself like Bug Buster O, Pyreth-It, or Pyganic. Pyganic is your best bet.

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Just to clarify, as that was me adding the Don't Bug Me to my water, it was a move of desperation more than anything. I used it simply because it was the only product I had at the time that had pyrethrum in it.

Hey everyone,Is there someone here that has a bigger brain than mine(more than likely)that could have a look at Malithion? I can't make sense of the scientific jargon.I can't get IMID up here in the great white north,and this shit may be the answer,plus I have five gals of it.I havn't slept for days and I don't even know which way is up anymore.If this is the shit I'll supply the whole Canna world with it!!! Regards Stinky.

StinkyFgrs said:

Hey everyone,Is there someone here that has a bigger brain than mine(more than likely)that could have a look at Malithion? I can't make sense of the scientific jargon.I can't get IMID up here in the great white north,and this shit may be the answer,plus I have five gals of it.I havn't slept for days and I don't even know which way is up anymore.If this is the shit I'll supply the whole Canna world with it!!! Regards Stinky.

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Malathion does work on RA. It is systemic and by all research I have seen should be out of the plant in 2 weeks. You will also need to apply some type of insecticide if you are trying to instantly kill RA.
Malathion works by attacking the insect nervous system. Specifically, it inhibits the action of an enzyme called acetylcholinesterase (AChE).[2] AChE works to break down another chemical, acetylcholine, which is essential in transmitting impulses between nerves. Therefore, when malathion is used, AChE becomes unable to break down acetylcholine, which consequently accumulates in nerve cells. This abnormal acetylcholine build-up can cause incoordination, rapid twitching, incoordination, paralysis and death.

After my harvest I will report back what worked for me, including steps taken and results. I used the Malathion on week 5 of flowering and I suspect I used too large of a dose and my ladies are paying the price for it. They fans leaves are yellowing and do not have the vigor they usually have.

Below is half life information:

Environmental Fate:

• Breakdown in soil and groundwater: Malathion is of low persistence in soil with reported field half-lives of 1 to 25 days [19]. Degradation in soil is rapid and related to the degree of soil binding [12]. Breakdown occurs by a combination of biological degradation and nonbiological reaction with water [12]. If released to the atmosphere, malathion will break down rapidly in sunlight, with a reported half-life in air of about 1.5 days [12]. It is moderately bound to soils, and is soluble in water, so it may pose a risk of groundwater or surface water contamination in situations which may be less conducive to breakdown. The compound was detected in 12 of 3252 different groundwater sources in two different states, and in small concentrations in several wells in California, with a highest concentration of 6.17 ug/L [33].
• Breakdown in water: In raw river water, the half-life is less than 1 week, whereas malathion remained stable in distilled water for 3 weeks [12]. Applied at 1 to 6 lb/acre in log ponds for mosquito control, it was effective for 2.5 to 6 weeks [12]. In sterile seawater, the degradation increases with increased salinity. The breakdown products in water are mono- and dicarboxylic acids [12].
• Breakdown in vegetation: Residues were found mainly associated with areas of high lipid content in the plant. Increased moisture content increased degradation [33].

Thanks soooo much Neo 420! What did you for a dosage?The jug I have is 50%,could you suggest a starting rate? I have a dozen plants in various stages of veg I will gladly use as guinni pigs,and report results regularly. With the 2 flower rooms I have been letting the plants dry to point of wilt before watering which I feel has been kinda keeping them @ bay,but I know an explosion is near.Thankyou again for your reply,you have given me hope.

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My dosage was 2 tsp per gallon but please note I used the concentrated version. Make sure you have plenty of ventilation going threw the room while you are in there because the smell gave me a wicked headache. If I had it to do over, I would of most likely used .5 to 1 tsp per gallon. This is some wicked chemical so wear gloves and do not come in to contact with it. Once Malathion is in the human body, it breaks down to some other chemical that is deadly to humans.

I also used Orthe Ecosense as my contact killer which can be used on harvest day. Good luck!

Quick questions everyone. Like I stated I am going to harvest at the beginning of week 7 due to I feel my ladies are fading. I'm flushing as we speak. Most of the fans leaves are yellow or in the process of yellowing and showing necrosis. I pulled one fan leaf and split it down the middle and seen liquid still in the stem (tells me some work is still going on in there). Should I pull the fan leaves or leave them be? I have a buddy who suggest I yank them so the plant pulls no more nutes from the leaves but I tend to think the leaves should be left on till I actually harvest for other reasons.

Thanks again Neo 420.I'll start on some rooted cuts tomorrow and let ya'll know how they react.Till then I think I may actually be able to catch some sleep,even though when I close my eyes all I see is a magnified version of those nasty bastards.

What I'm seeing here is those tiny, almost microscopic white critters. I have maybe seen one or two fliers max and haven't seen any in days. The microscopic white bugs are en-mass on the Cali Connection SFV OG Kush, especially on roots around drainage holes. They seem to be mostly leaving the larger Purple Kush alone.

So far since I don't have access to imid, I mixed up some insecticidal soap, and did a bare-root dunk for the infested plants, for over 2 minutes each plant. I need more soap and a giant rubbermaid to get the large plants, but they don't seem to have as much of an issue, so far.

The next day I saw almost no dead critters in the trays, in comparison to the veritable graveyard that was there before the dunk. Keep you posted.

I fought root aphids before... i used bayer tree and shrub liquid concentrate 3ml / gallon one time. took care of everything

Notes on chemicals:

Since this discussion has centered around chemicals, I want to make a quick note on chemical use indoors:
Some growers are inexcusably reckless when they use chemicals, particularly with the stronger, more dangerous type. It is very important to differentiate different types of chemicals and their relative danger (where you can safely take a bath in neem oil and probably will have few effects from a dilute-pyrethrum bath, there are other chemicals that are dangerous in VERY small amounts). In particular it is important to recognize that when you spray a chemical, it disperses it all over the place - not just where you apply it - and the fine particles easily absorb into any exposed skin and especially through the membranes in your lungs, as you breath in thousands of minute particles of the water, briefly suspended in the air.

Spraying can make innocuous substances dangerous and takes harmful chemicals to a new level of danger.

Even some additives you would never think of as dangerous - seaweed extracts such as Nitrozyme, for example - are thought to be potentially carcinogenic. When you spray, even a substance which is not a serious risk for absorption through your skin can potentially be far more harmful as it will more easily pass into the bloodstream through the mucus membrane in your lungs than by absorption through your skin.

Remember: you are growing INDOORS! Especially if your grow space is inside your house! I have a friend who had such a battle with spider mites that he resorted to spraying with heavy-duty chemicals (Avid, Hexygon); he figured he would wear protective clothing and wear a chemical respirator and he would be fine; WRONG. The sprays accumulated concentrations of nasty chemicals - especially in his grow, but even throughout his house. He became so sensitive to them (by compromising his immune system from exposure) that he had to wear the respirator every time he went in his grow room or he would get sick, even LONG after he sprayed. Eventually he came to realize that just being in his house was making him sick. He stopped doing the grow there and spent as much time away from his place as possible and when he would go back, we would get sick again, just from being inside, not even in the grow room. He moved and shit has spiraled downward for him since. Imagine if a newlywed couple decides to move into his old place. Imagine if they decide to make his old grow room the baby room... I shudder to think.

Note: as much as this sounds like I am talking about myself, this actually is a friend/acquaintance of mine. I won't even spray FLORAMITE inside my space. I spend too much time in there to fuck around. I DO, however, wear a respirator with multi-chemical rated cartridges any time I spray with ANYTHING more than yucca and water.

I second that ^ do your homework and really understand what you are doing especially if spraying indoors. People who ruin places by letting walls rot, soakin the place with chems, etc give us responsible growers a bad name.

Dont spray toxic shit in a home residence unless you own it and really know exactly what you're doing. AND DONT DUMP IMID/PYRETH/ANY OF THIS STUFF INTO ANY GROUND WATER SOURCES, SEWERS, LAND WITH A HIGH WATER TABLE... MAKE JUST WHAT YOU NEED AND DISPOSE OF EXCESS IN AN AREA WHERE IT CAN SIT IN THE DIRT FOR 6-8MONTHS AND BREAK DOWN, PREFERABLY COVERING THE SPOT U POURED IT ON WITH DIRT THAT IS NOT CONTAMINATED.

Sorry about all the caps, but I feel strongly about this one, this stuff will kill the micro organisms in ground water and kill the small life effectlively knocking the bottom off the food chain - can kill LOTS of fish, which are getting more scarce anyway.

Sorry for the potentially obtuse question, but as I am on the cusp of working with chemicals (I have pretty much avoided anything more crazy than round-up for poison ivy). Where should I dispose of the water I use for the chemical dunks and any run-off? Please keep in mind I live in an apartment in large city (no dirt closeby). I'm not sure how I can dispose of it without it somehow ending back in the water table. It seems heatscore to to be dragging buckets of water to the park.

I have to say these last few posts about chemical safety have given me pause... I'm almost ready to dump all the plants (good lord), and start from scratch. I have told a few people of the current issue, and they have mention that they can donate babies for a new room. All sorts of good genetics on offer too... hmmm. Maybe sometimes the best avenue is to go with the path of least resistance.

If I do dump the plants what is required to fully sanitize the room, with the exception of high CO2?

Many Thanks. Namaste.

Does anyone have anything to report about diatomaceous earth's effect on the RA problem? It would be nice to be able to do a couple natural things that would really slow them down if not stop em completely.

Much Respect!

Much Respect!

Thanks to all whom keep us less experienced grounded!! I was going to try some serious shit out today and ya'll woke me up.(Bitch Slapped me if ya will) I have to smoke this shit,and I have to live with it.I'm gonna gas them with Co2,and try to get through this run,then tear down and revamp the whole show so these pests can't play with my mind anymore. For the most part, this is a fabulous community we are part of,isn't it ! Regards Stinky.

o.sparkles said:

Does anyone have anything to report about diatomaceous earth's effect on the RA problem? It would be nice to be able to do a couple natural things that would really slow them down if not stop em completely.

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Just wanted to also warn people about DE... this shit slices up insects... imagine what it does to the inside of your lungs!

People using this should be careful and make sure that there's no way it's going to get on your buds. You would not want to inhale this shit!

Greenmopho said:

They try to ban everything we use, don't they?!?! WTF? I had fungus gnats, and searched everywhere for some bacillus thuringiensis, couldn't find it. Way To Grow had no idea what I was talking about, come to find out, its been banned in the US, or at least CO. But somehow, Boulder Hydroponics still has it in the Mosquito Dunks. I noticed that store has a lot of banned stuff, including 35% H2O2, verses the 29% everyone else carries.

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Hey bro, just FYI for the future. Echter's nursury over by Kipling and 52nd(?) has mosquito dunks too! They had a pretty decent selection of insecticides.

NOTE: Also, I just noticed today that my White Widows had hermed pretty badly. I saw bananas starting in several colas on both of my white widow plants. I decided to kill them rather than try to keep up with plucking nanners. These plants received 1 nicotine drench and 1 pyrethrum drench. I'm not sure if that stressed it or not. None of the other plants have yet shown any herm problems. The white widows were also trained/trimmed recently. I was pretty shocked at the extent of the herm flowers... they were showing up in every cola (they were both LST'd and had 6-8 colas). Oh well... I'll be watching my plants closely the next week to see if my drenches stressed any others.

BigSwifty said:

Just wanted to also warn people about DE... this shit slices up insects... imagine what it does to the inside of your lungs!

People using this should be careful and make sure that there's no way it's going to get on your buds. You would not want to inhale this shit!

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So no? No experience with DE and RA?

*always wear a good dust mask when dealing with any powdery or friable substances*

This is a great point. I would also like to add that most people don't understand how dangerous basic dust is. Perlite, rockwool and fertilizers are incredibly dangerous when used irresponsibly....or STONED.

This is really what all the warnings are about. It's like teaching kids to use matches. Please....stoners, be safe. We need your vote.

o.sparkles said:

Does anyone have anything to report about diatomaceous earth's effect on the RA problem? It would be nice to be able to do a couple natural things that would really slow them down if not stop em completely.

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Used it alongside with Tanglefoot to quarantine the plants 'in place', nothing was going to crawl in or out of those pots. without crossing a desert of DE and a river of Tanglefoot.

I think I got rid of them, none seen in almost a week. I'm with you guys and people using products irresponsibly...it's fucking crazy. I remember reading just yesterday about somebody who had a lady friend in a grow WHILE they were spraying FLORAMITE; and from what I can tell, she didn't have anything on as far as respirator, gloves, etc.. Supposedly she got 'dizzy' and the grower thinks she's just 'allergic'. Damn man, that shit's not safe. Last thing I need is to be calling 911 for anybody, let alone some chick in my grow room because of pesticide inhalation. Imagine the news story spin on that one? Man Kills Woman with Pesticides Inside Marijuana Factory, story @ 10. I shudder.....