Hail Hydro 2.0: New Beginnings

Bobby Boucher · May 31, 2019

I failed miserably at my first attempts at rdwc until I started effectively sterilizing my water. I tried bleach, hydrogen peroxide, all sorts of different bennies, heisenberg tea.. Couldn't find my stroke. Probably user error or whatever, but what works for me every single time is Dutch Master Zone.

They changed their formula recently, and apparently they don't use copper sulfide anymore. Its just a chloramine something or another. Dummy proof bleach. Add 1 ml per gallon up til flush. 0 slime. Not even a little, so long as you keep the light out of your res.

I'll try to eliminate it from my regimen once I move. I've tried eliminating it a couple times here, but my water insists. I get rot without it. Happens whether or not I run a chiller.

PetFlora · Jun 2, 2019

Bobby Boucher said:
I failed miserably at my first attempts at rdwc until I started effectively sterilizing my water. I tried bleach, hydrogen peroxide, all sorts of different bennies, heisenberg tea.. Couldn't find my stroke. Probably user error or whatever, but what works for me every single time is Dutch Master Zone.

They changed their formula recently, and apparently they don't use copper sulfide anymore. Its just a chloramine something or another. Dummy proof bleach. Add 1 ml per gallon up til flush. 0 slime. Not even a little, so long as you keep the light out of your res.

I'll try to eliminate it from my regimen once I move. I've tried eliminating it a couple times here, but my water insists. I get rot without it. Happens whether or not I run a chiller.

GREAT 411.
Thanks
see my update

PetFlora · Jun 2, 2019

Finally seeing the plants starting to grow new leafs

Following BBs lead, I am rethinking everything, though not so sure about some light leak into the rez being an issue, but hey, that's an easy fix, so did that too, but probably >95% was blocked

I thought it best to make fresh nutes, so I drained the week old nutes, but before adding the fresh nutes I ran enough h2o water to cover the stones for 10 minutes, then used my HD vacuum to drain and clean off a small amount of residue from the floor of the tote and on top of the stone discs. Also, I soaked all 3 plants up to the middle of the root riots in a h2o2 bath for ~ 10 minutes, which I ve been doing daily lately

Nutes: Emerald Harvest (which Ive been using throughout this grow) CaMg + 3 Part + (as per their feeding chart Emerald Goddess, they also say Honey Chome and Root Wizard though I chose not to add them, yet

So, fingers crossed that at least one of these things will solve my RR issues for once and for all

PetFlora · Jun 2, 2019

Bobby Boucher said:
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I could never figure out why people skip on scrogging! Multiple layers of trellis ftw.
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This tiny tent saves me from having to refill my humidifiers all the damn time. Nice to keep on a table to save my neck during the initial training.View Image
This is just a bastardized big toke system. His thread is stickied in hydro. It all drains into an external res which has its ph maintained automatically by a bluelab ph doser.
View Image View Image
Nugs.

cool set up

why are you using hp tubing? It doesn't appear to be connected to anything below the Y... is this an intentionally small tube diameter to slow drain so that the roots are exposed to the nutrients longer?

Do you have a thread that I and others can follow? Ill check your sig upon sending this

PetFlora · Jun 2, 2019

DiverDave said:
To PetFlora , Look like your getting your problem solved.

I think I may have done it also , with the sprayers.
I have the extra photos I could not post in message # 557.

The bucket lid with sprayer installed.
And the harvest of the front plant (wet trimmed).

I do not know why the photo looks like it has rot starting , they look white and healthy to me.
The big clump of roots on the bottom was sitting right on top of the 4" air stone.
So far the best grow I have had with Autos.
My second grow of the same genetics.

DD

cool set up. what gph size pump are you using, and which nutes?

PetFlora · Jun 2, 2019

Bobby Boucher said:
Every single one of those pictures show rot.

Having been about as far down and out as someone can be, I really just hate watching people victimize themselves.

I would take a trip down to your local optometrist and then take another good hard look at those pictures. If that doesn’t help, I would seek out a psychiatrist.

Helped me a ton.

obviously the last 2 have advanced stage of RR, but cameras are not as accurate when used on auto holding camera with one hand while holding the lid up with the other. Directly under the lid is where the least amount of light is adjusted, thus looking tan, however, I did have serious RR issues once they were moved into my F & D system, which is what happened this time to my biggest plant within 24 hours. So, I will do a total disinfection (could be from previous grow and not disinfecting the pump and tubing afterwards) before moving any of my recovering plants back upstairs

DiverDave · Jun 2, 2019

PetFlora said:
cool set up. what gph size pump are you using, and which nutes?

Normally I use the 12vdc 800l/min pump.
But the current one I use is 680 gph 120vac
2 of them both with filter hooked up , one for sprayers , one for filtering/recycling.

I wanted higher pressure that is why I went to 120v , now thinking to get an inverter so the power wont be my next problem.

Nutes .. I use the Jack's recipe 3 2 1 , for every 4 gal (mix bucket)
8 grams Jack , 4 grams Cal/mag , 2 grams epson salt and Alaska
ph down depending on rez ph .. from 7g to 10 gram.

I lower ph to 5.4ish and it works its way to 8.4.
The Arora loves the high ppm mix.

I thought the 800ppm was high , but I just watched a YT vid
and the guy was talking 1500ppm.
I have never been over 800 ppm .. as time goes on the rez
seems to drop to 600 ppm. Which is ok I think.

Just about ready to do the last chop down.

I also just ordered a hand held microscope to I can check tri's
better next run for when its ready .. this time was kinda a guess.

DD

Bobby Boucher · Jun 3, 2019

PetFlora said:
why are you using hp tubing? It doesn't appear to be connected to anything below the Y... is this an intentionally small tube diameter to slow drain so that the roots are exposed to the nutrients longer?

I honestly just used whatever I had laying around to get the system recirculating. The feed line runs from an external res up through the drain line. Its just a matter of aesthetics. The water levels remain constant throughout the entire grow. Less hammocking, bigger root masses, ime.

I aerate my buckets, so I don't depend on any amount of flow or drop. The diameter of the feed and drains is more or less inconsequential, as is the height of my waterfalls. Big tokes thread is stickied here in indoor hydro. All of that is explained in there.

Following BBs lead, I am rethinking everything, though not so sure about some light leak into the rez being an issue, but hey, that's an easy fix, so did that too..

I would rethink the basics first. Like.. why can't you keep your temps down? Perhaps you are using a $20 booster fan instead of a proper extractor fan, rated to be used under the static pressures of your closed tent? Are your intakes not twice the total area of your outtakes?

I've got a 600w bare bulb hps in a 2'x3' warbrobe being cooled just fine by a TD-150s. FWIW.

If that isn't the problem, consider RR's advice, even if he is a big ol' stupid meanie head. If I couldn't keep my light cool enough in my wardrobe, I was simply going to model my grow after his.

PetFlora · Jun 3, 2019

I have a 4+ yo bottle of Dutch Master Zone, so I added some to my dunk jar and gave each plant's roots a few minutes in it

I then added ~ 3 tsps to my 3g rez. now it's bubbling like crazy, but will settle down

Will check into the new Zone, though I suspect it is only for sterile rezes, which I am willing to do. Come to think of it, I never had these issues when I was running sterile

2/3 plants leafs re turgid and horizontal, but one is still slightly below horizontal

1/3 appears to be a male. Since I already collected pollen from the previous male and pollinated =LOL I don't need another stinkin' male

RR said his temps are as high as mine (~ 85*) and he doesn't aerate his rez, so ...?

Bobby Boucher · Jun 3, 2019

3 tsp to a 3 gallon res? Thats 15 ml. They recommend 3 ml per gallon as a maximum for aggressive treatment. I never go above 1ml. You may want to go dilute that res, lest you wind up frying your plants. Also, both formulas are meant to sterilize your res. Neither are meant to be used in conjunction with bennies, or humics or fulvics from what I've gathered, although someone may step in to argue the latter point otherwise.

Again.. what kind of extraction fan are you running? No worries if you are running a silly little thingamabob. It's an easy mistake to make, and to fix. I've got a strong hunch that you are using a booster fan, or that your intakes are undersized, or both. I'm sure my 600w sodium puts out more heat than whatever light you are using, and my extraction fan does the job just fine.

Kind of kicking myself for not grabbing the cloudline T6. You should just bite the bullet one time and buy it for yourself if you don't have a proper extraction fan.

I would also throw out anything that is porous, at a minimum. Air stones, clay pebbles, any rubber seals or gaskets, airlines, pumps.. Or even just scrap the whole damn thing. Containers, air pumps, water pumps, stones and all would probably only set you back 70-80 bucks. Well worth the peace of mind of a fresh start, especially after fighting the rot for so long.

Also, I wasn't telling you to aerate, and comparing one grow to the other is completely useless unless every other factor of the grow is aligned, and yes, that would include using hydroton as a common media.

The points I was trying to make in that paragraph are better learned from big tokes thread. I highly recommend you read it, along with every other sticky on every other sub-forum. I know I have 20x over. That way you at least know who everybody here is and what their contributions are.

I'm just some dipshit, btw. I know nothing.

PetFlora · Jun 3, 2019

here's a link to the new Zone https://dutchmasternutrients.com/zone/

PetFlora · Jun 3, 2019

Bobby Boucher said:
3 tsp to a 3 gallon res? Thats 15 ml. They recommend 3 ml per gallon as a maximum for aggressive treatment. I never go above 1ml. You may want to go dilute that res, lest you wind up frying your plants. Also, both formulas are meant to sterilize your res. Neither are meant to be used in conjunction with bennies, or humics or fulvics from what I've gathered, although someone may step in to argue the latter point otherwise.

Again.. what kind of extraction fan are you running? No worries if you are running a silly little thingamabob. It's an easy mistake to make, and to fix. I've got a strong hunch that you are using a booster fan, or that your intakes are undersized, or both. I'm sure my 600w sodium puts out more heat than whatever light you are using, and my extraction fan does the job just fine.

Kind of kicking myself for not grabbing the cloudline T6. You should just bite the bullet one time and buy it for yourself if you don't have a proper extraction fan.

I would also throw out anything that is porous, at a minimum. Air stones, clay pebbles, any rubber seals or gaskets, airlines, pumps.. Or even just scrap the whole damn thing. Containers, air pumps, water pumps, stones and all would probably only set you back 70-80 bucks. Well worth the peace of mind of a fresh start, especially after fighting the rot for so long.

Also, I wasn't telling you to aerate, and comparing one grow to the other is completely useless unless every other factor of the grow is aligned, and yes, that would include using hydroton as a common media.

The points I was trying to make in that paragraph are better learned from big tokes thread. I highly recommend you read it, along with every other sticky on every other sub-forum. I know I have 20x over. That way you at least know who everybody here is and what their contributions are.

I'm just some dipshit, btw. I know nothing.

I keep my tent flaps open, so extraction not needed. Vertical fan blows out sucking warm air out, while gently caressing the plants

How about a link to Big Tokes thread?

hydroton is messy, small polished stones work fine, were never the problem

Bobby Boucher · Jun 3, 2019

That would have been my second guess, is that you simply have no extraction fan.

Doesn't sound like you are rethinking your predicament much.

I would just say that if you have all the answers already, and you are happy with the quality you are getting, not to worry about it, but it's not the right thing to do. Especially considering the traffic this thread gets.

The right thing to do would be to encourage you to come to the right conclusions on your own.

A: Your open tent flap isn't cutting it.

B: Your polished stones are a highly questionable variable.

C: You would have been crushing it a long time ago if you weren't trying to reinvent the wheel.

Bobby Boucher · Jun 3, 2019

PetFlora said:
How about a link to Big Tokes thread?

You need to learn to navigate the forums. I know it may sound cruel, but it isn't intended to be. At the top of each sub-forum, there are a list of "stickied" threads.

It is universally considered bad form to participate in any forum without reading the stickies first. You've got a lot of reading to catch up on.

Medfinder · Jun 3, 2019

Bobby Boucher said:
Lol.

I just offered to buy you a whole new grow. Lights, fans, containers.. the whole 9 yards. Hundreds of dollars up for a stranger. I don't know if you missed that.

I offered my empathy, my time, my kindness, my money, my friendship..

You really are just a proud fool. I hope karma slaps the dentures out your mouth, and that your plants keep rotting away.

(mic drop)

uhh.... how bout me...?

id like a new system... ill be nice. :tiphat:

DiverDave · Jun 3, 2019

Medfinder said:
uhh.... how bout me...?

id like a new system... ill be nice.

This post is funny , I would jump at a chance for a new system.

BB ; I followed your advice and began with one sticky link to Bio Buckets.

and it broke off to others .. I kept reading ..

So I'm now thinking the water fall .. and where is drain set .. I mean at a level just before the bottom of net pot ?

PF ; I have a 5 X 5 tent , my filter/fan both 10" are connected and fed into top of tent using a 10" to 6 " reducer connected to a 6" to 8" reducer.
And on the side a rectangular flange 6" to tubing from aircon vent
comes in and connects to a 6" to 10" reducer.

Keeping the zipper doors shut and my blue fan/ fresh filter can
suck a slight vacuum on tent and keeps my Platinum Led P450 cool around 74 degs while on.

Harvest is almost over and I'm still learning .. maybe next run I will look into the water fall ideas and a way to slip 2 more buckets into the mix.

I still have a long way to go with catching up on the reading ..
Good info and keep it safe and green!

DD

Bobby Boucher · Jun 3, 2019

DiverDave said:
BB ; I followed your advice and began with one sticky link to Bio Buckets.

and it broke off to others .. I kept reading ..

This made my day. Glad I could set off that chain reaction.

So I'm now thinking the water fall .. and where is drain set .. I mean at a level just before the bottom of net pot ?

Yes. The height of the fall and flow rate is crucial if you aren't aerating your buckets. I aerate, so for me its just a method of recirculation. I like that none of the gaskets are under any pressure whatsoever. After leaking out onto my wood floors a couple times, I prefer not to poke holes in the bottoms of my buckets for any reason. I drain and feed from the top.

PetFlora · Jun 4, 2019

Bobby Boucher said:
That would have been my second guess, is that you simply have no extraction fan.

Doesn't sound like you are rethinking your predicament much.

I would just say that if you have all the answers already, and you are happy with the quality you are getting, not to worry about it, but it's not the right thing to do. Especially considering the traffic this thread gets.

The right thing to do would be to encourage you to come to the right conclusions on your own.

A: Your open tent flap isn't cutting it.

B: Your polished stones are a highly questionable variable.

C: You would have been crushing it a long time ago if you weren't trying to reinvent the wheel.

BB, as I have mentioned several times, the RR is a 'new' experience over the last 3-4 grows. EVERYTHING ELSE IS MOSTLY THE SAME: I did replace my side draw pump with bottom draw.

The only thing that changed the nutrient mix is when I started adding Microbes, which is when I first started seeing RR.

At that time I contacted NPK RAw, who told me to use Enzymes instead as Microbes break down into Enzymes. So, logically, eliminating them is the place to start, and to be safe I added DM Zone, which I overdid, so, taking your advice, yesterday, I dumped and made fresh nutes adding 1ml/g Zone.

New DM Zone: I am having one heck of a time finding the new Zone. It is possible my local hydro store has it, but they were closed yesterday

PetFlora · Jun 4, 2019

Bobby Boucher said:
This made my day. Glad I could set off that chain reaction.

Yes. The height of the fall and flow rate is crucial if you aren't aerating your buckets. I aerate, so for me its just a method of recirculation. I like that none of the gaskets are under any pressure whatsoever. After leaking out onto my wood floors a couple times, I prefer not to poke holes in the bottoms of my buckets for any reason. I drain and feed from the top.

Having experienced leaks of one kind or another over the years, I bought cement mixing tubs at HD/Lowes which easily hold 2-3 buckets. Of course since doing that I've not had anymore leaks

Bobby Boucher · Jun 4, 2019

I’ve been watching this show under different handles for years.

There is something to be said about doing things the right way. Orthodox behavior might sound more like a matter of tradition, but it’s usually a matter of health and longevity. Don’t put your mattress on the floor, don’t drink from bowls, etc etc...

...I wouldn’t use a media that I have NEVER seen anybody use before, personally.

I also wouldn’t try and get by without an extraction fan. I have never seen anybody growing successfully that way, and that includes you. I would start here.

You may be able to get away with your polishes stones if you throw away anything larger than a nickel. I still wouldn’t recommend it.

When I turn my harvested nets upside down, 90% of the hydroton holds together. Only a few rock fall out. The rest have to be massaged and shaken off the root system. I can’t see smooth polished stones behaving this way

And zone is only available through dutchmasters website.

Show a bit of good faith here and buy yourself the Cloudline. You need it, promise.

Hail Hydro 2.0: New Beginnings

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