Earth Juice Users

JMan,

The end of your last post describes my situation exactly.

*"The major issue I find is many growers feed primarily bacteria in organic growing, ultimately leading to higher pH environments."*

I use OBBT buckets and try to encourage fungi growth, but it seems the bacteria out do the fungi. In an effort to minimize the rising Ph, I bubble the Tea's till foamy (7.4), then Ph down to 6.2.

Check the runoff the next day 7.8! I tried applying EJ unbrewed and my plants suffered, Ph spotting...

I'm about to make up another batch of medium, could youm suggest any changes? Planning to add more Perlite to the mix for the sativa's as they like it drier/more airy that the indies.

Current mix:
50% CannaCoco
17% Perlite
17% Vermiblend Soil Addmendment
17% FFOF

Then I mix in per Gal:
1 TBL Kelp Meal
1 tsp Dolomite Lime (prilled)
1/4 tsp Epsom Salt
sprinkle of MycoMadness

I melt the lime and epsom salt in warm water before adding. I also dribbled in some molasses and liquid kelp.

2nd run where I've struggled with climbing Ph, twisted leaves, and Ph spotted leaves.



Any thoughts?

Thanks, Much Respect,

Hey Tact,

I wasn't trying to knock your advise in any way. There's a wealth of info here - all worth discussion. I suppose the "dangerous trap" may be the wrong description. I believe promoting an understanding of the system is what will lead growers in the right direction. The general practice of adjusting pH in organic conditions really defeats the purpose.

Let me give you guys an example. I was using city tap water when I first moved to Cali. As a friend of mine calls it - Liquid Concrete. pH of like 8.5. You would think the best way to handle this would ultimately lower pH at some point. My tea would surely rise through the roof - right? pH down would solve the issue.

Not so fast. My tea brewed and rose like hell. I added pH down - 6.0 - and fed the plants. You'll notice I pHed a little low. I found it would rise in the medium no matter what I did a little.

The plants did not look good. They suffered lock out of all sorts. Specifically nutes normally provided via Fungi. Measured pH rose on a steady basis. I simply could not get things under control. It was obvious to me bacteria was thriving. Potassium, Mg, Ca and a few other micro nutes suffered. Fe and Zinc followed also. Things looked bleak.

So - I took some drastic measures. I screwed using teas. Pre-mixed the tap and Ej - measured pH of 5.5. I then added General Hydroponics chemical pH up. 1/3 tspn. Then fed my plants. This application killed off bacteria, and applied chelated potassium. The product is Potassium bicarbonate. My plants rebounded! I'm not even sure what the pH was. I just new what a little would do to bacteria - and thats whats important.

However. As things progressed it was clear pH would rise again - and then stabilize after another feeding including the pH up application. I was killing bacteria, suppressing the population. I also was not giving the fungi a chance to establish itself. In truth, I merely had a temporary fix. I new applying more fungi would be necessary the next go around.

So in that situation - high pH water, plus the nutrients and some "pH up" worked to get me through the harvest but certainly not through multiple grows. I had to establish balanced food so the right microbes would exists and thrive. Not promote bacterial blooms only to murder half of them off once a week. My circle of life was essentially a one way road. Without diversity in organics, it's hard to produce quality product.

The solution was to first literally find a new water supply. I'm fortunate to have a friend with well water I have easy access to - Ph 6.5 out of the tap. It's fantastic. Low ppm count as well. This is not available to every one. So typically I recommend an RO filter and then mix back in some dechlorinated tap to get numbers where you want them.

I also add fungi at every transplant and once or twice into flowering. If working with soil, most grain meals, seaweed meals, humic and fulvic acids feed fungi - all worth adding to the medium. Molasses feeds primarily bacteria.

I firmly believe however, that beyond insuring a healthy water supply, pH should be left to the micro-herd. Many times when we start to monitor things we realize that numbers are not where we assumed they should be. I've tested mediums at 8.0 and the plants thrive. I've also tested them much lower with the same result. The rhizosphere (root zone) is where the important balance occurs. This is whats important in regards to my above example, the pHing is irrelevant. The reaction our soil life has is where the real results occur and understanding these reactions gives us better control.

Many of us use Myco, it's hard to avoid w/ organics. As many of us know, this fungi binds in and around roots. As the acidic Fungi reacts with the high pH (bacterial dominated) medium it strikes the balance appropriate for absorption. It is merely a system we're taking advantage of. One far more efficient at maintaining itself than most growers give credit.

Create the fungus rich medium and apply the Juice - you will be heavily rewarded. If your having issues try using only the 4 EJ products. Grow/Bloom/Cat/Micro. Only add others if the plant/microbial life demands it.

Start simple and inoculate with fungi often. And remember a solid population of fungi can take some time to develop. I add fungi and humic acid prior to any nutes what so ever. This happens at the clone to 1 gallon t-plant. In my experiences this helps establish fungi before bacteria rule the roost. I also add this Fungi/fungi food mix at the 1 to 5 gallon w/ no nutes for the same reason.

Simple Diversity my friends - thanks for the discussion

Peace.......Jman

Hope I dont / didn't come across as a smart ass know it all, I haven't smoked for going on 2 weeks now & im not a happy camper.

I just ranted for 5 min strait & deleted it because it doest really matter. I nearly started it again. That widow bho is really calling for me now.. errr

back to topic, ive done a fair bit of experimenting with bacteria & fungi. I still dont understand why some say it needs roots to grow / work effectively.

I can see why the powders wont do much good in teas as they need more time to get going than the bacteria but have had much success culturing them in small containers developing a huge network in around a week using AN piranha.

http://www.advancednutrients.com/landing_pages/piranha_landing.html

My simple method:

1. Few handfuls of compost in to small container
2. Piranha power
3. Water till pretty wet
4. Mix by hand
5. Add lid & keep somewhere warm

In about a week the compost is completely covered in a white web. Might add some wet oatmeal & maybe a sugar supply. Then add to teas or compost pile when wanting a fungal booster for flowering cycle or even during veg.
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Once again J - good stuff, very helpful - got some painting to do, Thanks again for your insight.

Tactical – I’m just a new member on this site (What do I know) but I don’t think you’re coming across as a know it all, I feel everything said here has been extremely useful if taken in context. What works for one person might not work for another.

How do you like that AN Piranha? Is it worth the price?

There is this stuff called VAM + Activator by BioAG, Below is a link and a bit of information taken directly from BioAg’s site, I currently use this VAM but it's too early to be able to report results:

http://www.bioag.com/

“This product is a combination of our Humisolve-TM7, which contains the essential trace elements required by soil microbes. The product also contains 4 species of Endo Mycorrhizal Fungi and Trichoderma cultures.

Benefits include:

* Improved nutrient and water uptake
* Improved root growth
* Improved plant growth and yield
* Improved disease resistance
* Reduced transplant shock
* Reduced drought stress

These fungi increase the surface absorbing area of roots 10 to 100x thereby greatly improving the ability of the plants to utilize the soil resource. Estimates of amounts of mycorrhizal filaments present in soil associated with plants are astonishing. Several miles of fungal filaments can be present in less than a thimbleful of soil! But mycorrhizal fungi increase nutrient uptake not only by increase the surface absorbing area of roots. They also release powerful chemicals into the soil that dissolve hard to capture nutrients such as phosphorous, iron and other "tightly bound" soil nutrients. This extraction process is particularly important in plant nutrition and explains why non mycorrhizal plants require high levels of fertility to maintain their health. Mycorrhizal fungi form an intricate web that captures and assimilates nutrients conserving the nutrient capital in soils. In non mycorrhizal conditions much of this fertility is wasted or lost from the system”

Jmansweed – What do you use for to create fungi population in your soil?

Endomycorrhizal fungi form symbiotic relationships with plants. They only thrive when roots are available to exchange exudates for nutrients. This fungi penetrates the plant roots and act as a literal extension of the plant itself.

Ectomycorrhizas and Trichoderma are the fungi you primarily are developing prior to adding the plant. They too can penetrate roots, however are not entirely depended on them for survival.

Ecto Myco's are common and frequently survive off leaf litter, and organic materials alone. They have some interesting characteristics. They can for example draw excessive nutrients from one plant and distribute them accordingly to others in need. This Fungi forms large mats and feeds many different species at the same time.

Trichoderma are more predatory fungi, attacking root disease, parasites etc. It also provides nutrients in similar methods as the fungi above.

These three are relatively fast producers in the world of Fungi and when added properly can simply out compete any non beneficial pathogens.

As Tact mentioned - Allowing them to develop early is important imo. When the plant begins to grow however, is when the serious populations grow - including Endo-Myco.

I'll put something together shortly about my methods of applying Fungi effectively.

LOKI- For sure, hope its clear that What works for one person might not work for another.

Ive looked into all the major fungi - bacteria products on the market & AN came clearly at the top due to having by far the largest diversity.

Market Products:

AN Piranha: (26) 18 Endo / Ecto - 8 Trichodermia

Plant Success Tabs: (11) 7 Endo – 5 Ecto

MycoGrow Powder: (22*) 9 Endo – 11 Ecto - 2 Trichoderma – 19 Bacteria

MycoApply Plus: (13) 4 Endo – 7 Ecto – 2 Trichoderma
4 Species Endo (20,000 prop/lb)
7 Species Ecto (110 million prop/lb)
2 Species Trichoderma and a Biostimulant Package

Bio-Organics: (15) 8 Endo – 7 Ecto
Endo spore count is a minimum 50 spores/cc, and the Ecto spore count is a minimum 50,000 spores/cc. - more than 30,000,000 per lb.

Humboldt Nutrients Myco Maximum: (12*)
Endomycorrhizal Fungi:
Glomus intraradices, G.mosseae, G. aggregatum.
20,000/lb

Ectomycorrhizal Fungi :
Rhizopogon villosullus, R. luteolus, R. amylopogon, R. fulvigleba, Pisolithus tinctorius, Scleroderma cepa & S. citrini.
110 million/lb

Trichoderma Fungi:
Trichoderma konigii & Trichoderma harzianum.
150 million/lb

Beneficial Bacteria:
Bacillus subtillus, B.licheniformis, B. azototoformans, B megaterium B. coagulans, B. pumlis, B. thurengiensis, B. stearothermiphilis, Paenibacillus polymyxa, P. gordonae, P. durum, Azotobacter polymyxa, A. chroococcum , Sacchromyces cervisiae, Streptomyces griseues, S. lydicus, Pseudomonas aureofaceans, P. florescence, Deinococcus erythr.
6 billion/lb.

Espoma Bio-Tone Plus: 7 Ecto – 2 Endo - 15 bacteria
Ectomycorrhizal Fungi: 44,200,000 propagules/lb. of the following 8 species:
Endomycorrhizal Fungi: 1,200 propagules per lb. of the following 2 species:
Contains 5,678,688 colony forming units (CFU’s) per lb. (378,579 CFU’s per lb. each of the following 15 species):

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Fungi loving snacks for making homemade cultures:

mashed potato flakes
pure "white" yogurt
skim milk powder
wheat flour
rolled oats
coffee grounds
oatmeal
molasses
malt
corn syrup
rice

humic acid
fulvic acid
seaweed / kelp
straw / hay
most "meals" (alfalfa, cottonseed)
cow and horse dung
organic soy protein powder
rock phosphate
over-ripe banana skin
soluble yucca extract

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Good read on the subject:

Not Just For Roots

Teas are not only beneficial for your plant roots,but also for leaves.I like to spray a bit on the leaves in a topical application.The benefit comes from the "coating" of microbes that you create on the leaf when you spray it.This basically muscles out any bad microbes.Be sure to cover atleast 70% of the leaf surface with the tea-spray,ensuring that you get both the tops and bottoms.

Fungus vs. Bacteria

Most teas are bacteria-dominant.However,in flowering,fungus is a tremendous benefit to your plants.I wouldn't stress this if I hadn't seen for myself what a difference the fungi make.Organic plants are all about fungi when flowering.If the fungi aren't present,there's just no way to push your plants to the limits of yield and quality.In fact,fungi-dominant teas are so good that they're the trick to achieving yields that border on those produced in finely tuned hydroponic environments.

Fungus takes longer to grow than bacteria.In the population race,bacteria always outgrows fungi by a large margin.Thus,when making a fungi-dominant tea,you have to give the fungi a head start.

Fungus plays a special role during flowering,delivering things such as phosphorous to the plants roots.They also breakdown secondary mineral nutrients and ammonium nitrogen available to the roots.Bacteria then convert the ammonium nitrogen to nitric nitrogen.Both varieties of nitrogen,ammonium and nitric,can be used by a cannabis plant and help it grow vigorously.

Nitric Nitrogen:Makes the plants grow shorter & wider,with closer node spacing.

Ammonium Nitrogen:Causes some stretch in the plant.

Nutrient Flexible

Teas can provide your plants with more than good bacteria.If your plant are lacking food or you encounter a problem that you need to correct,teas are an excellent vehicle for infusing your soil with nutrients.

Personally,I utilize teas mostly to provide my plants with fungi.How many nutrients you should add to you tea depends on what you already have in your particular soil (and needs of your plants).I pack my soil with tons of long-term nitrogen,phosphorous,and potassium,so I don't have to worry about the tea playing the role of nutrient provider.

Aerobic vs. Anaerobic Bacteria

The only real gotcha with organic teas is aeration.You must continually aerate your organic teas.Why?There are two types of bacteria that can develop in you tea : Aerobic and Anaerobic.Anaerobic doesn't need oxygen and is nasty stuff.If you ever smell your tea and it stinks of sewer,don't use it!It means that there's anaerobic activity.A good tea that's rich in aerobic activity will smell like very rich soil (the kind that's teaming with earthworms).Anaerobic teas are bad for more reasons than the fact that they literally smell like shit.They can also manifest E. Coli and introduce things like alcohols,which can kill your plants fast.Good aeration isn't just to supply oxygen to your plant roots.It's also a catalyst that teases the microbes and protozoa out of the compost-or earthworm castings,in the case of vermicompost-without killing them.After the continuous bubbling pushes them out,they consume the nutrients and simple sugars in your tea and multiply in a big way (creating the microlife boom that will,in turn,produce a bust,wherein large numbers of microbes will die their carcasses will nourish your plants' roots).

Thou Shalt Not

There are certain varieties of compost and brewing conditions that should be avoided when brewing a batch of organic tea.

Chlorine:I've said it before and I'll say it again:Never use chlorinated water on organic soil!This obviously includes teas.But if your only source of water is chlorinated,don't freak out.Simply drop an airstone in an uncovered container of the water for 24 hours.Your chlorine problems will be gone.

Compost Leachates:This is just compost squeezed and pressed.It's not very nutrient rich.But it'slack of nutrients isn't the problem (remember,using teas as a vehicle for transporting nutrients to your plants is a supplemental benefit).The problem is anaerobic activity,which can spell death for your plants.

Compost Extracts:While these provide more nutrient value than compost leachates,they still contain anaerobic activity (the big "I'm a dumbass" move in the world of organic teas).

Violent Aeration:Aeration is your friend and the key to a potent tea that's teaming with good bacteria.But too much aeration on the scale that provides an excessive amount of agitation and turbulence to the tea-is a bad thing becuase it will actually beat the microbeasties to death!Be gentle with the teas;remember that they're teaming with microbes!

Ultraviolet/HID/Sunlight:Avoid any high intensity lights or sunlight.Instead,use "normal" house lighting,such as florescent or tungsten.However,avoid any light source near your tea brewer.Regular room lighting is fine,but-as a rule of thumb-dimmer is better.

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Mother Mary's Tea Recipes

*The measurments below are for a one gallon tea bubbler.When making teas in smaller containers,simply adjust the recipe or dilute the final tea with water.

*In these recipes,brew the tea with an airstone in a one gallon container for 24 to 48 hours.When you're done brewing,strain it through a nylon stocking (for topical/sprayer applications) or a standard strainer (for normal watering applications) and cut it 50/50 using dechlorinated water.

*Fungi-dominant tea compost should be mixed together and kept very wet for three to seven days prior to brewing.Store it high in a room,near the ceiling and in the dark.The microlife and fungi populations will really bloom if you place a heating pad-set to low-below the container (shoot for 68-75 degrees fahrenheit;20-24 degrees celsius).After three days,it will be visibly booming with fungus (what I call "Santa's Beard").Put this in your tea brewer and bubble it (in place of regular compost).

*Prepare for the container to foam up and bubble over.You should place a tray under your tea bubbler and avoid any electrical or other items that may be damaged or unsafe around the bubbling water.

Vegetattive Stage Recipe

* One Gallon Water *: R/O water,rain water,distilled etc. etc.

* One Teaspoon Black Strap Molasses (unsulfured)1-0-5)*:
Be sure to use only the unsulfured variety.This is because sulfur kills microlife,especially fungus (unless it's elemental sulfur in small ratios).

* One Teaspoon liquid Alaskan Fish Fertilizer (5-1-1)*:
Fungus and bacteria both love fish ferts and go nuts reproducing when it's included.

* One Cup Earthworm Castings (vermicompost) or good outdoor compost*:
Vermicompost provides humates,enzymes,protozoa,nematodes,bacteria,fungus ,trace elements,secondary and primary nutrients.

* One Teaspoon Fox Farms Peace Of Mind All Purpose (5-5-5) *:
Food for the microlife that balances the pH of the tea (to about 6.5-7.2).

Flowering Stage Recipes

* One Teaspoon Black Strap Molasses (unsulfured) (1-0-5) *:
An excellent source of potassium during flowering;bacteria prefer these simple sugars,whereas the fungus prefer more complex sugars derived from various organic matter.

* One Teaspoon Fox Farms Peace Of Mind All Purpose (5-5-5) *:
Food for the microlife that balances the pH of the tea (to about 6.5-7.2).

* One Teaspoon High Phosphorous Bat Guano (0-4-0) *:
Fungi love this nutrient and will deliver it to the plant roots.

* One cup Earthworm Castings (vermicompost) or regular compost *:
Good balance of nutrient (trace and secondary).Also a source for microbes and beneficial elements.

* One teaspoon Maxicrop liquid or 1/2 teaspoon water soluble Maxicrop or kelp/seaweed extract (dry) *:
A fungal favorite,this is a key tea ingredient that produces a good ratio of happy fungus.It's also booming with trace elements,some nitrogen,and some potassium.

* 1/4 teaspoon Micronized (soft) Rock Phosphate *:
Fungus attach to the rock phosphate and grow on it.Also a prime source for phosphorous,magnesium & sulfur.

Fungus Dominant (halfway through flowering) Recipes

* 1/2 cup Earthworm Castings *:
See above.

* 1/2 cup Mushroom Compost *:
This is fungus waiting to happen.A rich source of fungal spores and dense organic matter that fungi like to eat.

* Two tablespoons Powdered,100% Natural rolled oats *:
Fungi love this nutrient and will deliver it to the plant roots.

* Two teaspoons Kelp Meal *:
I use kelp meal for several reasons.It's organic matter that fungi like to attach themselves to.Fungi love kelp extracts as a primary food source and the rich trace elements and potassium it introduces.

* 1/4 teaspoon Micronized (soft) Rock Phosphate *:
Fungus attach to the rock phosphate and grow on it.Also a prime source of phosphorous,magnesium and sulfur.

The earthworm castings,mushroom compost,oatmeal,and kelp meal are first mixed together and made very wet.After fungus has grown on this blend,place it in your tea bubbler for 24 hours with some additional liquid (or water soluble) kelp/seaweed extract and Micronized (soft) rock phosphate.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=61990

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* I like Advanced's bacteria product also: Tarantula: 57 Bacteria - 1.4 BILLION Colony Forming Units PER GRAM

Now we're gettin' down to it. Thanks for all this info, Much Respect TactFarmer and JMan

I seem to be not doing a good job on my wording making (things) clear.

My yin & yang are out of sync - the last thing I want is to mislead anyone.

A smart grower in my opinion would be one that educates themselves with info from ICmag & general growing then develops there own system not following 1 particular persons methods. Not to do it my way or Jmans way, etc but to blend parts of them together.

Not to check PH fanatically but Not to totally rely on the soil to do everything.
__________________________________________________________________

Glad ya like the info Rip - Good luck with the fungus

Lets drop the PH thing & go towards soil health discussions as the freshest earth juice wont work for shit with out the the microbs.

Advanced Nutrients are expensive but if made into a culture a small amount will go / grow a long way.





Never did follow up with pics but im going to run some new batches & document the process / progress.

I think its important to use a product that separates the bacteria & fungi. The bacteria gets going quicker & can over run the fungi before it gets a chance to establish itself.

i love ej. i dont brew it. never had any issues. i once ran3, 55 gal drums worth. i had raised beds in a gh.tried not brewing it and never went back.i do have highly organic with wormcastings and lime tho.

Wow guys this is really amazing.. I'm glad I could heat up this thread. All this information is fantastic.

I'll read all this and I'm sure will have a few questions at the end...

Tactical Farmer - I'm looking at your pictures and was wondering. That looks like a lot of fungus for one use, When you make that culture, do you use it multiple times?

I culture in larger amounts because theres alot of options with it.

You can put some in your teas for fungal dominance.

Mix with upcoming grow medium ahead of time when "cooking it".

Top dress some into upper layer of soil in mid grow.

Its not like a tea that needs to be used quickly - the fungus culture can sit around for weeks or longer. It does tend to dry up so keeping it misted with sprayer will keep it fully active but it never really dies. The longer it sits around (in my option) allows the different species time to do there thing. Some probably grow quicker than others so keeping it going possibly allows more diversity within it.

When theres no need for it - just chuck it into compost pile.

Im going to run a few different experiments real soon & document with pics for everyone.

Tactical Farmer said:

Im not really seeing a dangerous trap or any thing like that ? Hope my data doesnt get newer users freaking out, just throwing out ideas for people to think about to save them possible headaches & potential disasters.

When I made the Bubbing EJ Tea post on the previous page & got into the touchy PH subject I said:

PH - EC testing is not a must do but not necessarily a waist of time.

In the beginning of my growing adventure I had alot of problems with my medium being alkaline in the mid 7's using 2tbs gal of dolomite per gal of medium, combined with with hard well water that was over 7. On top of that I was watering my compost with the alkaline well water throughout the year.

(Looking back on it later) My first couple grows (without a meter) sucked. Believe the problems were some PH lockout (with medium in mids 7's right off the bat) which led to over feeding (because nutes were not being absorbed quickly) that caused nute lockout because they looked hungry & I keep feeding . Caused alot of stress to me which nearly caused me to give it up.

But after getting a meter & finding the problem, things worked alot better. Cut back on the lime, cut the well water with RO & used rain water or sometimes creek or pond water. Added some more peat to the compost, which got my compost in the mid 6's before the plants hit it. Things have been problem free ever since, without some testing with meters dont think things would have turned around as nicely as they did. Now that the bugs are worked out - its smooth sailing. Certain combos of water & medium are just to much for bacteria & fungi to handle in some cases.

Putting my past experiences out there before I forget about my old growing pains to help those few out there with those (certain combos) that dont play well together.

Every time I type the letters PH - I feel the need to add a disclaimer, but I definitely feel its bad advice when one says throw away your meter to a new organic grower, just because it works for most doesn't mean it works for all.

Im pretty sure that if I wasnt one of those unlucky ones before - I would be here saying throw away your meter like alot of the others.

Disclaimer: Plants will grow fine organically with medium in the 5's or 7's for a limited time but (not entire grow cycle).

Click to expand...

This is great information. I'm three weeks into 12/12 with EJ for my first time. I did allot of research and so far everything looks and smells great. I have always been confused with the issue of organic growers who talk about the way micros regulate ph and then spend time testing their tea and soil runoff and having to add dolomite lime.

This along with helpful info from jmansweed has really cleared up the issue for me as it should for anyone reading this thread. Even though everything looks good in my garden today I'm going to test the runoff. If I run into a major ph issue the micro beneficials cannot balance I may want to adjust my soil or water before the next cycle.

I'd never throw my damn ph meter away anyhow.

I have to report amazing things so far with the EJ... I'm very pleased

fan leaves yellowing early

fan leaves yellowing early

I've read through the thread and seen various Earth Juice flowering recipes. But I am having some minor issues with larger older fan leaves yellowing about 4 weeks into flower. 6-8 weeks to go, is this normal? Seems kinda early for so much yellowing. I did a pH test and it is good, around 6.8. Tactical and Jmans, any chance you guys could share your flower recipe? Thanks!

Ive gone to the darkside / easyside of pre adding dry fert amendments to control most of my plants nutritional demands.

Its different every time as im always experimenting.

I do always make sure theres a nice load of N in there aprox 3-5 days before switching to flower to handle the 2 week stretch.

Thats prob when your N levels should hit peak as theres max veg growth at that time.

* She is really N starved yellow looking that early, sucks to use N now when adding P would be better but in my humble opinion I would give her a nice shot of fast acting N fearing there may well be no leaf left in a month plus.

Maybe a grow tea @ 1.5 - 2 TBS/Gal bubbled for 3 days well microbed ?

* Ive not been in your situation so maybe the N will have little affect with the existing leaves ?

Tactical thanks for the quick reply. Last week I tried to reverse the yellowing with a topdress layer of EWC while reverting back to 50/50 EJ Grow/Bloom and they seemed to get better for few days but now they are moving back towards more yellowing. Today I topdressed with coffee grounds and added 1 tbsp per gallon of blackstrap molasses to the EJ tea after the bubble. I'm hoping the coffee grounds will provide some quick-release nitrogen. I didn't want to add mexican bat guano this late. I've been using EJ Grow and Bloom and very occassionally the Microblast but for next feeding I just picked up Catalyst and MetaK.

i try to let them get slightly N hungry near flower switch then a good hit of mixed N ferts about 1/2 week before going to 12/12.

BOG's old OG method.

That mixed N shot (some slow release / some fast release) will get them through the demands of stretch then very little N from then on (for me & my compost).

Much N in flower tends to make buds to leafy - rather be adding P/K & humic / fulvic / enzymes trying to suck / activate all the nutes / minerals in the soil.

If it wants N it can have it from the lower leaf thats not catching much light.

Thanks Tactical, I started from seed just before christmas, they veg'd under T-8s for 5 weeks, then I put them outside at 26N about Feb 1. Weather was colder than usual in Feb. They stretched alot but took until early March to start throwing pistils. I've got some finishing in 3 gal plastic containers and some in 2 gal smart pots. They got bigger than I expected and I think the roots are crowded. I'll water them thoroughly one day and they seem dry and light the next. In addition all strains seem to be heavy feeders. So I've learned a few things on this first attempt--I need T-5s or stronger for quicker veg, I need bigger pots for the finish even in the short season, and I need to hit 'em with mexi guano before they flip so as not to run to short on the nitrogen. Yellow leaves look better today and they are starting to show lots of frostiness. Thanks again!