Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

Yeah I bumped it to kinda get both up here on the same page...... if anything..... it will prevent people from wasting money on the things that absolutely positively DO NOT work.

So yeah

I'm getting bayar tree and shrub tomorrow and will give it a good research in the morning.

Thyanks for all the hard work IGT

Has anyone tried just beefing up ventalation? maybe too humid conditions, oversaturated soil, poor air exchange are to blame.

According to the other thread, treatment with the Bayer Tree and Shrub and/or Fruit and Veggie version of imid can be much higher than the 2ml/gal I figured on earlier in the thread. Sounds like 10ml/gal is a super full strength dosage but Im not completely clear if this is applicable to hydro or if just for soil applications. I bumped my hydro concentration up to 3ml/gal or so tonite for good measure. Also sprayed some of the Ortho acetamiprid into the netpots. Im confident both of these products used together will end this god awful bug problem and Ill update my findings later on in my crop.

Keep up the good fight guys!

Well, gamma-cyhalothrin works great. There are dead bugs all over the place.I actually feel like I used too much @ 10mL/Gal. My veg room smells like a gas station.

DojaD said:

Has anyone tried just beefing up ventalation? maybe too humid conditions, oversaturated soil, poor air exchange are to blame.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the chuckle, and welcome to ICMAG.

FoCo(No.Co) said:

Well, gamma-cyhalothrin works great. There are dead bugs all over the place.I actually feel like I used too much @ 10mL/Gal. My veg room smells like a gas station.

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Great news FoCo! Please update as your crop progresses so we know what, if any, effects the gamma had on the plants themselves and if it killed the infestation entirely.

GeorgeSmiley said:

Yeah I bumped it to kinda get both up here on the same page...... if anything..... it will prevent people from wasting money on the things that absolutely positively DO NOT work.

So yeah

I'm getting bayar tree and shrub tomorrow and will give it a good research in the morning.

Thyanks for all the hard work IGT

Click to expand...

I urge you guys to consider using this Spectracide stuff. The Imid is systemic and will stay in your plants. Gamma-cyhalothrin is not systemic and kills on contact.

The advantage is that you can continue root treatments(if needed) in late flower without having to worry about harvesting poison buds.

By the way, Spectracide mixed to a balanced 7.0 ph when mixed with RO water.

Edit: On second thought, I shouldnt be giving andvice OR suggestions. You guys know at least as much as I do about this plague. Plus I want to find out how the Merit stuff works.

i found this stuff at Lowe's for $11
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=204621949&listingid=74535513

kinda wanted to ask the hydro shop guy how he sleeps at night. i've had fungus gnats in my veg room for almost a month.

i also had that spectracide stuff but it doesnt seem to work (in my situation) and smells like chemicals. i hit them with this green light neem concentrate. some of the clones i think r having trouble think i might have used a little 2 much. but in flower room and veg room all of the fungas gnats are really slow moving, sick, and dont want to go under the surface

cornflake said:

bali_man your reply seems confused.

if a person's skin contacts poison it will absorb it, this is dermal absorption, the same way dogs and cats absorb the poison to kill the fleas via their pet collars

ingesting is only 1 method of being poisoned, careful of the advice you give

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ahh i see mister.... that's what dermal means. And here I was thinking it meant like heat or something....oh no wait that's thermal.

What would a post be without some dumb ass remark huh?

Telling him he'll be fine isn't advice... telling him to take a bath with that shit would be advice. He's already gone and sprayed himself with it. I merely said he'll be fine after such a small exposure amount, and DERMAL exposure at that.

Get off my balls cornflake dude. Infact here's a bit from the msds of:
BAYER ADVANCED COMPLETE BRAND INSECT KILLER FOR SOIL & TURF CONCENTRATE 102000015132 72155-29

Acute toxicity studies for this product have been bridged from another product containing a higher percentage of the active ingredients beta-cyfluthrin, an enriched isomer mixture of cyfluthrin, and imidacloprid. The non- acute information pertains to the technical-grade active ingredients, beta-cyfluthrin and imidacloprid. Toxicology information on technical-grade cyfluthrin can be obtained by calling the Product Information Number on Page 1.

Acute Oral Toxicity: male/female rat: LD50: > 2,000 mg/kg
Acute Dermal Toxicity: male/female rat: LD50: > 4,000 mg/kg
Acute Inhalation Toxicity:male/female rat: LC50: > 1.2 mg/l Exposure time: 4 h Determined in the form of liquid aerosol. Highest attainable concentration.
No deaths

Skin Irritation: rabbit: No skin irritation.

and as you demonstrated in your example cornflake, pets can take topical applications of "poisons"..... but us humans.... tsk tsk.

ACTIVE INGREDIENTS:
Imidacloprid.................................... 0.72%
ß-Cyfluthrin..................................... 0.36%
OTHERINGREDIENTS........................ 98.92%
Total................................................100%

If he uses 15ml per gallon which is the application rate......that provides 0.1080 MLs per gallon of IMID, and 0.054 MLs per gallon of beta-Cyfluthrin.

so ya, one tenth of a milliliter of imid in a gallon, sound the alarm cornflake. and what's with this generic elementary term "poison" ....a lot of shit you consume daily I would consider a "poison" tylenol is a poison, grain alcohol is a poison, etc.

If you had any idea, you'd know that preservatives found in everyday foods, that you consume everyday, are far more poisonous, than handling or mishandling pesticides a few times in ones life.

fyi.....Food preservatives may contain or release formaldehyde which is carcinogenic, neurotoxin, irritant and sensitizer. These include DMDM hydantoin, Imidazolidinyl urea, Diazolidinyl urea, quaternium 15, sodium hydroxymethylglycinate and bronopol (2-bromo-2-nitropropane-1,3-diol). Other preservatives that may also cause reactions include the parabens, methylchloroisothiazolinone and methylisothiazolinone.

but thank you again for your scientific assessment cornflake, its much appreciated.

FoCo(No.Co) said:

I urge you guys to consider using this Spectracide stuff. The Imid is systemic and will stay in your plants. Gamma-cyhalothrin is not systemic and kills on contact.

The advantage is that you can continue root treatments(if needed) in late flower without having to worry about harvesting poison buds.

By the way, Spectracide mixed to a balanced 7.0 ph when mixed with RO water.

Edit: On second thought, I shouldnt be giving andvice OR suggestions. You guys know at least as much as I do about this plague. Plus I want to find out how the Merit stuff works.

Click to expand...

even though its not systemic, United Industries Corporation still maintains a pre-harvest interval of 21 days or produce such as corn. I personally wouldn't use it in the bloom stage, because again it is a modified compound so I've only had experience using Gamma-cyhalothrin in veg, with stellar results. My idea is that it's not worth taking a plant into bloom that has anything wrong with it. yields suffer, thc production is reduced, and at the end of it all, you're stuck with possibly tainted goods.

ItsGrowTime said:

According to the other thread, treatment with the Bayer Tree and Shrub and/or Fruit and Veggie version of imid can be much higher than the 2ml/gal I figured on earlier in the thread. Sounds like 10ml/gal is a super full strength dosage but Im not completely clear if this is applicable to hydro or if just for soil applications. I bumped my hydro concentration up to 3ml/gal or so tonite for good measure. Also sprayed some of the Ortho acetamiprid into the netpots. Im confident both of these products used together will end this god awful bug problem and Ill update my findings later on in my crop.

Keep up the good fight guys!

Click to expand...

I think a dose of 10 ml/g would be more applicable to a soil container plant. The Bayer Tree and shrub (1.47%imid) calls for 5ml per gallon of container. I think the highest I would dose a rez at would be 5 ml/g. I am currently at 3 ml/g and the bug numbers in the pots appear to be down. I may have to grab some of that acetamiprid also, more weapons in the arsenal can't hurt.

I was trying to find out what was causing rust spots on my leaves, and I ran into this thread. I looked at what I thought were fungus gnats under a microscope, and they are aphids. I immediately went to walmart last night and picked up a no pest strip. That should at least keep their numbers down in the adult stage.

I've made about 4 harvests in the last year, and this is the first time I've had this problem.

I built a worm bin and left it in my grow room. The moisture in it got too high and these little bastards started breeding heavily. Now they are completely covering my veg plants. The plants in flower are looking clean. I hope they stay that way.

This weekend I will take everything out of my grow tents and clean and disinfect them. Then I will give the girls a root soak to kill off the bugs in the soil.

Do these chemicals you guys have been using also kill off the beneficial soil microbes?

Thank you for starting this thread. I've read every post, and I'm looking forward to hearing what works for people.

.

milehighmedical said:

I'm only just approaching day 25 so I could be in for it.

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If you dont take immediate action you are going to have serious problems in a few weeks. Since you are organic, you might want to check these Ed Rosenthal articles if you havent read them already:
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/articles/4519.html
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/articles/2967.html

milehighmedical said:

FoCoNoCo - We live in the same region, so I'm surprised you don't have the extremely low humidity helping you. Do you run some sort of sealed room? Or are the aphids around here resistant to low humidity? I sure hope not.

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Yea I run a humidifier in my veg area and sealed CO2 in flower.

I ran an unsealed room at 15-20% rh two cycles ago and I had the aphids then. I found that the low humidity only helps keep the fliers at bay. The real damage occurs in the roots, where the humidity of the air doesn't matter. I didn't know what the bug was then so I didn't address the roots and my plants were fucked by harvest so they were obviously doing damage.

I think pythium could be part of the problem too, once those larvae start munchin on the roots, it open the gate for other problems, just a thought

Well, no replies about my mixing... but no sweat ^.^ got that shit that has .25% pyrethrin (i was told this is derived from chrysanthimum extract...kinda organicish. Im worried about the 10% sulphur and what it may do to my roots but i gotta try something. It says to mix at 5oz/g for foliar app, so im gonna try using 2oz/gal on one (got quite a few) as a soak/flush, ill soak it for a couple mins, drain thoroughly and see what happens, if it doesnt go into shock or die within 3 days, ill hit em all, gonna reapply in a week to be sure i got em all then let em go on my normal bloom regimen. Hopefully this works, i really really need this not to epic fail on me. Got em in 2gal pots so it shouldnt be too too hard, gonna dunk em inna 5gal bucket (im using coco with a 4x8tray flooding for 30m 1x/day)

Wish me luck ^.^ hope i dont need it...

.

Milehighmedical - By the time you see winged root aphids your infestation is in full swing. They grow the wings because the current host plant is overpopulated and they fly to other plants. They need to be dealt with swiftly.

Fat J - I'm not sure if what your using will work, this is my first bout with them. Please let us know if it works. Good luck.

Grin - I don't know if these chemicals will harm the microherd. I would reinoculate after treatment if possible.

FO.CO- how is the spectracide working?

To further help identify root aphid infestation here is a photo of the waxy residue they leave behind. The infestation is pretty advanced by this point.





I hope this helps some of you confirm the enemy. Good luck.

Glad you mentioned the waxy build-up! I grow in soil and badly effected plants show the waxy build-up near my drainage holes for my pots.

well, 12 hours later and the one I treated shows no ill signs - in fact is had a growth spurt last night, looks way healthier alredy and the runoff was full of little bodies - i just hope its strong enough to get most of em.

I have a feeling the sulphur is hellping with the secondary problems caused by these fuckers (mold, other pathogens is what really kills the plants, the mites just weaken them badly)

I'll keep updating, but I think that you guys who did daily/bi-daily flushes may have caused waterlogged soil which makes it easier for them to come back, weekly treatments have been key for everything ive dealt with in the past.

Also, I have no illusions about this bug - containment and control is all you can really do - trying to drop their numbers low enough to finish the round then im sterilizing and starting over. If you have these that is the only real option to get rid of them. I believe they have a 6-8 day life cycle, so I imagine alternating the sprays and dips within a 4-day period and repeating for 2-3 weeks should be pretty effective.

I'm pissed cuz I BROUGHT them to my new spot - argh!!! I started seeing the "mag def" just before i moved, picked up some CaMg+ and thought i was done with it. Fuck - checking all future medium with a 30x loupe and I suggest you do the same.

I believe my infestation came from a bag of ready-gro coco/perlite mix that was outside at the dro shop. Word to the wise - if the bag is sitting in the parking lot - don't fucking buy it ^.^

Gonna give the test plant 3 days and see if i see any acute shock develops. *crosses fingers* and see if they are really gone.

Oh - one more thing - imid is a systemic pesticide - you should apply and then wait a week or 2 - it doesnt kill much on contact, it kills when the plant uptakes it and the bugs eat the plant - so for a severe infestation you may have 2 weeks where you dontreally see results - dont overdo it, just give it a lil more time and combine with a pyreth spray to get the mature bitches...