FRANKIE1579
Member
DWC Slime 250X magnification after erythromicin treatment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKpnVVYQpv8
Organisms in DWC Slime 100X magnigication
https://youtu.be/GF5F8IfiNb0
Disclaimer: There are a multitude of micro-organisms existing in water culture. One system's issues may not be another's despite similar symptoms.
So saying that, has anyone here ever looked at clear slime build up under a microscope?
I have been playing around with a RDWC setup and a clear white slime consistently appears around the plant roots. Growth stalls and then infection sets in.
Parameters
Air 80F Day/65 Night
Humidity 70%
58 F Water temps
No light leaks
Oxygen enriched to 150-200% (16-25 mg/l approx)
0.2 EC (Jacks 3-2-1) + 1 ml p/gallon Potassium Silicate
Ozone ORP control (350-400 MV)
Hydroguard (1 ml p/gallon) (Bacillus species have a known oxidizer resistance)
Mycostop (Label rates)
Symptoms
Ph drops when slime begins to take hold. Ran system without plants for 24 hours. PH climbed slowly. Introduced plants. PH dropped from 6.2 to 5.6 in 12 hours. No EC change.
Foam coming from return inlet and in reservoir. No foam before introducing plants.
Slow/nonexistent growth. Clear slime visible adhering to plant roots.
Small numbers of micro-organism isolated from inside plant xylem/phloem up to 3 inches above roots and above water line.
Ineffective Treatments:
These observations are from viewing the micro-organisms under a microscope following treatment.
System disinfection without plants with ozone at >3 mg/l for 24 hours (1000+ ORP). >90% kill rate.
System disinfection with plants with ozone at 2 mg/l for 4 hours (900 ORP) >75% kill rate
System disinfection without plants, Chlorine at 8 mg/l in pure water. 0% Kill rate.
System disinfection with plants, Chlorine at 4 mg/l in 0.2 EC nutrient solution. 0% Kill rate (Increase in pathogen growth observed)
Heisenberg Tea. No effect.
Chlorine dioxide at 2 mg/l without plants for 24 hours. 75% kill rate.
Chlorine dioxide at 0.2 mg/l for 24 hours with plants. 0% kill rate. (Increase in pathogen growth observed). Plant damage observed.
Zerotol 2.0 at 1/1000 dilution. <50% kill rate. Plant damage observed.
Abacetamin 1 PPM. (Not a true systemic and not absorbed by roots, used as an anti parasite for root nematode/parasites. Is transliminar and is able to locally penetrate plant tissue) 1 PPM. Increase in pathogen growth observed.
Abacetamin 10 PPM <50% kill rate. Plant damage observed.
Abacetamin 100 PPM <90% kill rate. 100% plant mortality.
Abacetamin 1000 PPM 100% kill rate.
Amoxicillin 10000+ PPM. (Anti bacterial fish medication) Note. These plants are for research purposes only. They will not be used for flowering. 0% Kill rate. Increase in pathogen growth observed. No plant damage.
So I've read many of the slime topics on here and other forums. Heisenberg tea has had good reviews. For some however it was ineffective, myself among them. Some people have reported chlorine/peroxyacetic acid/hydrogen peroxide etc resistance.
With being able to identify that it is not a bacteria under the microscope, as well as these organisms resistance to high levels of sterilization that should kill most ordinary bacteria, it seems some of us may have been targeting the wrong pathogen/parasite. Protozoa have a known chlorine resistance, thriving in 50 mg/l active chlorine for 24+ hours. They also create a biofilm which protects the organism and helps it to spread.
The aquaculture industry has major problems with protozoan parasites on fish. Cryptocaryans irritans for one. This protozoa creates a clear slime which suffocates the fish. It is my belief that alot of the slime in water culture is caused by something similar.
Quinine sulphate (the anti malarial drug) is the recommended treatment for food safe aquaculture treatment. Chloroqhine phospate is almost identical to quinine according to the experts i spoke to and is now the recommended treatment. It is also purported to be plant safe and non systemic same as quinine. I will be receiving it on Friday and will be testing different concentrations. Here is an research paper on its efficacy against protozoa.
https://www.int-res.com/articles/dao2011/94/d094p167.pdf
Just thought I would share the information in case it helps someone else out there, even if its advising what was not effective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKpnVVYQpv8
Organisms in DWC Slime 100X magnigication
https://youtu.be/GF5F8IfiNb0
Disclaimer: There are a multitude of micro-organisms existing in water culture. One system's issues may not be another's despite similar symptoms.
So saying that, has anyone here ever looked at clear slime build up under a microscope?
I have been playing around with a RDWC setup and a clear white slime consistently appears around the plant roots. Growth stalls and then infection sets in.
Parameters
Air 80F Day/65 Night
Humidity 70%
58 F Water temps
No light leaks
Oxygen enriched to 150-200% (16-25 mg/l approx)
0.2 EC (Jacks 3-2-1) + 1 ml p/gallon Potassium Silicate
Ozone ORP control (350-400 MV)
Hydroguard (1 ml p/gallon) (Bacillus species have a known oxidizer resistance)
Mycostop (Label rates)
Symptoms
Ph drops when slime begins to take hold. Ran system without plants for 24 hours. PH climbed slowly. Introduced plants. PH dropped from 6.2 to 5.6 in 12 hours. No EC change.
Foam coming from return inlet and in reservoir. No foam before introducing plants.
Slow/nonexistent growth. Clear slime visible adhering to plant roots.
Small numbers of micro-organism isolated from inside plant xylem/phloem up to 3 inches above roots and above water line.
Ineffective Treatments:
These observations are from viewing the micro-organisms under a microscope following treatment.
System disinfection without plants with ozone at >3 mg/l for 24 hours (1000+ ORP). >90% kill rate.
System disinfection with plants with ozone at 2 mg/l for 4 hours (900 ORP) >75% kill rate
System disinfection without plants, Chlorine at 8 mg/l in pure water. 0% Kill rate.
System disinfection with plants, Chlorine at 4 mg/l in 0.2 EC nutrient solution. 0% Kill rate (Increase in pathogen growth observed)
Heisenberg Tea. No effect.
Chlorine dioxide at 2 mg/l without plants for 24 hours. 75% kill rate.
Chlorine dioxide at 0.2 mg/l for 24 hours with plants. 0% kill rate. (Increase in pathogen growth observed). Plant damage observed.
Zerotol 2.0 at 1/1000 dilution. <50% kill rate. Plant damage observed.
Abacetamin 1 PPM. (Not a true systemic and not absorbed by roots, used as an anti parasite for root nematode/parasites. Is transliminar and is able to locally penetrate plant tissue) 1 PPM. Increase in pathogen growth observed.
Abacetamin 10 PPM <50% kill rate. Plant damage observed.
Abacetamin 100 PPM <90% kill rate. 100% plant mortality.
Abacetamin 1000 PPM 100% kill rate.
Amoxicillin 10000+ PPM. (Anti bacterial fish medication) Note. These plants are for research purposes only. They will not be used for flowering. 0% Kill rate. Increase in pathogen growth observed. No plant damage.
So I've read many of the slime topics on here and other forums. Heisenberg tea has had good reviews. For some however it was ineffective, myself among them. Some people have reported chlorine/peroxyacetic acid/hydrogen peroxide etc resistance.
With being able to identify that it is not a bacteria under the microscope, as well as these organisms resistance to high levels of sterilization that should kill most ordinary bacteria, it seems some of us may have been targeting the wrong pathogen/parasite. Protozoa have a known chlorine resistance, thriving in 50 mg/l active chlorine for 24+ hours. They also create a biofilm which protects the organism and helps it to spread.
The aquaculture industry has major problems with protozoan parasites on fish. Cryptocaryans irritans for one. This protozoa creates a clear slime which suffocates the fish. It is my belief that alot of the slime in water culture is caused by something similar.
Quinine sulphate (the anti malarial drug) is the recommended treatment for food safe aquaculture treatment. Chloroqhine phospate is almost identical to quinine according to the experts i spoke to and is now the recommended treatment. It is also purported to be plant safe and non systemic same as quinine. I will be receiving it on Friday and will be testing different concentrations. Here is an research paper on its efficacy against protozoa.
https://www.int-res.com/articles/dao2011/94/d094p167.pdf
Just thought I would share the information in case it helps someone else out there, even if its advising what was not effective.
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