304 vs 316 Stainless for Closed loop systems

[Permacultuure]

He also recommends the Caresaver, a pump that is known to be unsuitable to our application.[/QUOTE

Iron Fist has I-502 certified machines, therefore an R-600 pump is required. No one seems to whine about ETS. And unlike some other CLS companies, Iron Fist doesn't just recommend a pump like the appion G5, whose manufacturer explicitly says not pump butane with it. He is actively working to find a permanent bulletproof recovery pump. The dude is making progress, much respect to him.

The dude is ordering a container of pumps from china, just like a few other companies.....And hyping it without testing it. Just like RB did with the Reftec....

You may have missed this one HST, but there actually is a "permanent bulletproof recovery pump" Its the only one WolfWurx recommends....

It's called a Haskel, and all you need is the right electrical panel and the right compressor...Maybe somebody should let Ironfist know this.

 

[Terpp]

Thank you for your wonderful insight GW!

I wonder about all the brewery companies that sell 304 parts, apparently they are all wrong. The dairy and a handful of breweries down the road are apparently doing it wrong as well (304 parts).

It's interesting and rather frustrating to see those that have no background in engineering trying to sell FUD.

 

[Scalawag]

Thank you for your wonderful insight GW!

I wonder about all the brewery companies that sell 304 parts, apparently they are all wrong. The dairy and a handful of breweries down the road are apparently doing it wrong as well (304 parts).

It's interesting and rather frustrating to see those that have no background in engineering trying to sell FUD.

I had your back on instagram (@wagscala) - IMO, it's a marketing gimmick at this point.

In his eyes, he found a *relatively* low cost "upgrade" to set his units apart from other nearly identical machines, and is using the fallacy argument that anything but 316 is now suddenly unsafe. Not founded in any reality other than, "Well why ISN'T yours 316? Mine are. So mine are better."

Part of him could sincerely think it's making a difference in the "safety" of his patients, but far and wide it seems more like a gimmick.

GrayWolf as always sets the record straight. You simply cannot fuck with a guy who repeatedly puts his designs freely available on the web and has never asked for a penny.

 

[Scalawag]

What facts are not straight? I'll continue to run my mouth though...

The guy just pushes big shiny things to people. These labs get approved my uninformed fire marshals, so I502 apporoved means squat to me here in Oregon.

Taking pics of googled information and posting it and claiming all of us not using domestic 316ss are too uneducated to know any better is a marketing strategy, and a poor one at that.

Back this dude up all you want HST, I'm with the wolf pack.......

If I was bulding extractors I'd be showing off extracts out of my designs, just like every other company and not bragging about my steel nuts.......

You nailed it, pretty much. I wanted to give Ironfist the benefit of the doubt because, well, his shiny shit seems very well made. But you make a valid point.

At one point not long ago, offering a complete CLS kit was a valued product. Now, we're getting to the point where things are getting quite commercial and being "certified" and "food safe" and meeting/exceeding established standards is what sells units, because everyone wants to be the most "compliant" and the most "pure."

So I wouldn't be surprised if this 304 vs. 316 is just another version of "Passive vs. Active" and who knows what other debate comes next.

 

[NEGT1]

It's pretty wild how primitive legislation is right now.

 

[Terpp]

I had your back on instagram (@wagscala) - IMO, it's a marketing gimmick at this point.

In his eyes, he found a *relatively* low cost "upgrade" to set his units apart from other nearly identical machines, and is using the fallacy argument that anything but 316 is now suddenly unsafe. Not founded in any reality other than, "Well why ISN'T yours 316? Mine are. So mine are better."

Part of him could sincerely think it's making a difference in the "safety" of his patients, but far and wide it seems more like a gimmick.

GrayWolf as always sets the record straight. You simply cannot fuck with a guy who repeatedly puts his designs freely available on the web and has never asked for a penny.

Thanks for that.

I suppose it doesn't matter how many engineers say 304 is just fine for CLS, or how many breweries or dairy farms use 304 on a daily basis. Apparently this guy (IF) has been welding long enough and been building CLS machines long enough to know more than the engineers around here.

Apparently people making oils these days are using brines and acids, so therefore we need 316 alloys. *sigh*

Lets not get started on the facebook group conversations where he claims his brother built and operated the first CLS over 10 years ago in WA. This guy. lol

 

[SkyHighLer]

Thanks for that.

I suppose it doesn't matter how many engineers say 304 is just fine for CLS, or how many breweries or dairy farms use 304 on a daily basis. Apparently this guy (IF) has been welding long enough and been building CLS machines long enough to know more than the engineers around here.

Apparently people making oils these days are using brines and acids, so therefore we need 316 alloys. *sigh*

Lets not get started on the facebook group conversations where he claims his brother built and operated the first CLS over 10 years ago in WA. This guy. lol

The real 'guy' who brought the light was foaf. The bigE who recognized the truth and ran with it was/is Gray Wolf.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=27954

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3718237&postcount=39

 

[Terpp]

The real 'guy' who brought the light was foaf. The bigE who recognized the truth and ran with it was/is Gray Wolf.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=27954

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3718237&postcount=39

Oh I know all too well.

I've spent hours upon hours upon hours researching this stuff as part of the risk analysis process for this company.

100% of the cannabis closed loop companies came out shortly after foaf's post. This includes Tami. Coincidence?

 

[Scalawag]

Whoa, love that history lesson there. Interesting to see everyone's reactions!

Meanwhile at this time, I was over on TokeCity jealous of everyone's Ti Pad & Curve sets on their giant-ass tubes, never thinking I'd be making this stuff.

 

[Lono]

Thank you to all that have contributed to this thread . Lots of great info!


@Perm, did you see IF post pictures of his concentrates? In response to your comment I'm assuming

 

[pharmco]

Oh I know all too well.

I've spent hours upon hours upon hours researching this stuff as part of the risk analysis process for this company.

100% of the cannabis closed loop companies came out shortly after foaf's post. This includes Tami. Coincidence?

And all these closed loop companies would do ANYTHING to hide that fact.

Also, I've noticed that Ironfist/Jon brown Valentine is apparently advocating the Cmep recovery pump. Any comments on this? It appears to be a Chinese pump from alibaba, and purportedly oilless.

I don't really trust Ironfist's engineering ability, or ability to appraise the potential risks to his customers, any comments from icmag? I've seen the Cmep recovery pump discussed only minimally on this site

 

[flatslabs]

Its been a while, but I think the pricing was around $6500 for those machines.

If you are getting into that size machine and pricing for a commercial application, the haskel is probably a better option when it comes to maintenance and repair.

I think what most people want is an explosion proof pump as a replacement for their appion / promax and this thing is just way overkill for anything but large scale production, in which case see my point above.

 

[Permacultuure]

I think we are going to run into the same problems. Being "rated" for r600 and have SS plumping does not mean that it will be built for the kind of burden we put on them. After all his American made domestic steel BS he's just ordering shit off Alibaba? He boast that his higher quality products demand a higher price. Well high quality recovery aint cheap either.

 

[Lono]

Its been a while, but I think the pricing was around $6500 for those machines.

If you are getting into that size machine and pricing for a commercial application, the haskel is probably a better option when it comes to maintenance and repair.

I think what most people want is an explosion proof pump as a replacement for their appion / promax and this thing is just way overkill for anything but large scale production, in which case see my point above.

Carl told me personally around $1800 for his recovery pump.

I don't understand why there is so much hype on something that we A) aren't even sure what exactly it is and B) has yet to be tested for our application

I'm eagerly awaiting its release. I'll have my $1800 ready to go if it's legit

 

[flatslabs]

Are we talking about the same pump? The CMEP6000 was the one I was referring to, and I only remember because someone joked they named it appropriately because it was ~$6000.

Even if it is $1800, how much is it to get that bad boy over here? If it was that cheap, I am surprised someone hasn't jumped on testing it already considering it has been discussed already.

 

[SouthernOregonM]

This is the pump I believe.

This is the pump I believe.

http://ecogreenindustries.net/product/recovery-pump/ It is also on ECOGreen for 1250 and it IS oiled with with Hemp seed oil...

Any info on this?

 

[HG23]

I think GW is running some tests using hempseed oil as a lubricant in a pump. I'm waiting on his results before I buy anything.

 

[SouthernOregonM]

I think GW is running some tests using hempseed oil as a lubricant in a pump. I'm waiting on his results before I buy anything.

Been lurking for a year and saw posts form him like that recently. Since he was working with ECOGreen on this project I figured this is the pump?

 

[SouthernOregonM]

http://au.alibaba.com/product/1898989897-R600-anti-explosive-refrigerant-recovery-machine.html Contacted them to see what they think on us using for botanical/medical extractons using hydrocarbons. Waiting for a response on direct price as well.. From what I can tell you do not need to buy more than one unit to get wholesale price of $500-$1000. AND that supposedly comes with a Two year guarantee if you buy it direct? I asked about that as well. All via Email, will report back soon with the response.

 

[SouthernOregonM]

Oh, the link to the main site... http://www.cm-green.com/ seems liek they have an oil free compressor version if you review specs. And it is still listed under hydrocarbon safe.