Can't seem to get my plants to fade out in flower... help!

[milkyjoe]

Plus, deep down, I wonder it the plant/microbes aren't better off building their own enzymes with you providing the ultra trace stuff so they can

 

[Team Microbe]

I think it was Spurr that posted something about how raw coconut water is not the same as the powder and that the powder doesn't have the same enzymatic qualities.

ahhh, I see now. Do you know where to source the coconut water?

 

[xmobotx]

oriental grocers typically have the young green coconuts

 

[Team Microbe]

how are the trichs?? gotta be somethin u can do with em...

They're good, but I'd imagine it doesn't matter since they're growing from the plant still. Correct me if I'm wrong, because that would be an easy solution to a crop that wasn't the best tasting

 

[Swollencalyx]

Hey TM, glad to see you hear on IC. I stumbled on your Instagram feed and dig your style. Your barley straw mulch and such got me curious and thought of trying in in future grows. I have been a soil advocate for the past 5yrs or so and find its the way to go. Flavors and terpenes really shine through.
I find that for me it's more of a genetic trait then a feed regiment or soil mix. I keep it pretty simple. 20% EWC to some simple sunshine 4, some rock dust, mycorizal inoculate, and some fish mea, maybe some bonemeal. I tend to make teas pretty regular maybe once or twice a week, PHC bio pack has a ton of bacterial diversity, followed with some Ful-power. I flush almost always with teas but brew heavy for fugal growth. This last go around I had the same issue with some genetics I've run variably for 2yrs. I have heavy fall colors, she refuses to finish. Just foxtail and foxtail. It's an easy 8 week finisher but I'm pushing week 10 and she's just getting chunkier and chunkier. It's pretty interesting, so I'm just gunna follower out till she goes to hen shit. I'm not sure why, but I feel that a rich soil is gunna keep a plant going as long as it can. I guess when you compare it to us humans, if you eat right, take care of yourself, and stay disease free. You'll live a lot longer.
That's my theory anyway. Keep up the good work bud.
SC

 

[Team Microbe]

Hey TM, glad to see you hear on IC. I stumbled on your Instagram feed and dig your style. Your barley straw mulch and such got me curious and thought of trying in in future grows. I have been a soil advocate for the past 5yrs or so and find its the way to go. Flavors and terpenes really shine through.
I find that for me it's more of a genetic trait then a feed regiment or soil mix. I keep it pretty simple. 20% EWC to some simple sunshine 4, some rock dust, mycorizal inoculate, and some fish mea, maybe some bonemeal. I tend to make teas pretty regular maybe once or twice a week, PHC bio pack has a ton of bacterial diversity, followed with some Ful-power. I flush almost always with teas but brew heavy for fugal growth. This last go around I had the same issue with some genetics I've run variably for 2yrs. I have heavy fall colors, she refuses to finish. Just foxtail and foxtail. It's an easy 8 week finisher but I'm pushing week 10 and she's just getting chunkier and chunkier. It's pretty interesting, so I'm just gunna follower out till she goes to hen shit. I'm not sure why, but I feel that a rich soil is gunna keep a plant going as long as it can. I guess when you compare it to us humans, if you eat right, take care of yourself, and stay disease free. You'll live a lot longer.
That's my theory anyway. Keep up the good work bud.
SC

I've had the same issues before, I had a SnowLAnd go for 12 weeks before. Same story, never-ending foxtailing lol

That's an interesting theory, it makes a lot of sense too. The bottled nutrients force the plant to do things it was never meant to do, including finishing on schedule I bet. I've always been a believer in organics, until I ate mushrooms

 

[milkyjoe]

I look at it the opposite. The bottle nutes lack the subtle things...ultra traces, ability to allow cytokinins to remain dominant over auxins, cobalt to allow new fine root hair growth the entire grow while also surpressing stress ethylene...that allow the plant to express its full genetic potential. I see it as a tremendous positive.

At the same time the plant builds anti oxidants which prevent oxidation of essential oils. You get a much more complex terpene profile.

Can I get an amen sorry...got a little preachy there.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

based on glancing a few posts on page one looks like you should have it figured by now. like was mentioned. your nitrogen runs too long/ is too high. lower it so that it runs out by week 6-8.

 

[Team Microbe]

I found the answer to my problem, and I'll post it here for anyone reading this thread with the same issues:

"In a no-till living soil that is full of life the plant can operate off of very little nutrient input, this is getting the plant to be strong and grow according to the soil.... where on the other hand, when using super soil full of fast release nutrients like Blood meal etc..... The plant doens't have as much of a choice, the nutrients are there and the plant is lazier and doesn't isn't required to work as hard to feed itself. As flowering wraps up and there is still Nitrogen in the soil.... the plant will still go through senescence and stop feeding on nitrogen, that being said, if the soil is still full of fast release nutrients it won't be able to do that... That is why many feel that a living soil recipe is a better way to go, using whole plant inputs like kelp and neem instead of single ingredient, fast release nutes."

 

[RetroGrow]

Not an organic expert. That said, you should not ditch your herb. A water cure will remove all the excess chems. You will lose smell, but potency will be the same, and it will smoke smooth.

 

[Team Microbe]

That ship has sailed my friend, that run was a few months back. I've heard about this water curing before, care to shed some more light on the matter? My initial instinct would to be not to let any water get on my buds, out of fear of mold. How's the water cure work?

 

[StrongBeef]

I know it's not discussed in organics, but a flushing agent will work and help fade your plants. I however like fully green organic plants come harvest. I grow outdoors and late nutrition helps prevent PM and molds. Double up on water a week before harvest to flush any extra goodies out.

Have you had your soil tested? I have mine tested 3 times a year to make sure everything is balanced.

 

[Team Microbe]

I know it's not discussed in organics, but a flushing agent will work and help fade your plants. I however like fully green organic plants come harvest. I grow outdoors and late nutrition helps prevent PM and molds. Double up on water a week before harvest to flush any extra goodies out.

Have you had your soil tested? I have mine tested 3 times a year to make sure everything is balanced.

How will a flushing agent aid in plant senescence exactly? That's interesting.

Green plants come harvest eh? Do you prefer the taste of nitrogen, or do you just like the visual aspect of it? (Plants should never be green upon harvest if they finish properly)

And what's your theory behind nutrition and PM prevention? In my experience I've seen PM sprout up due to low immune systems in my plants. When I have a healthy garden with sufficient air flow I have no problems with PM. Outdoors is a different story however, and genetics really play a huge role in prevention. That and an IPM routine with Neem included in the regimen.

Where did you hear that excess water at the end of the cycle "flushes out goodies" exactly? I know for a fact this isn't true, it's actually one of the biggest misconceptions in the stoner world. It's a lot more complicated than that unfortunately man. Residuals reside in the cell walls of the plant tissues, and "flushing" as they like to call it... does no justice to what's already been done. You can flush maybe 50% of those bottled nutrients out of the soil but what's in the plant is there to stay since most of those nutrients are immobile.




Please (no offense) know what you're talking about before giving advice on forums, because some people believe everything they read and will practice it in real life then wonder why things aren't going how they planned.

 

[RetroGrow]

That ship has sailed my friend, that run was a few months back. I've heard about this water curing before, care to shed some more light on the matter? My initial instinct would to be not to let any water get on my buds, out of fear of mold. How's the water cure work?

There are threads here on water curing, but I'll sum it up for you, as I have done it, both as a remedy for over fed herb, and as a test to see how much junk is in the herb.
Take a sample of buds, and put them in a jar. Fill jar with water. This does not hurt the herb, as THC is not water soluble. Leave it overnight. The next day, after osmosis forces chemicals out of the bud, look at the water and you will see it is brown, and it smells really bad. Dump the water and repeat this process every day for a week. By week's end, you will see that the water is clear and the smell is gone. Remove herb, and you have clean herb with no chemicals/fertilizers in it. It will not smell as strong, but it will not lose any potency, and the smoke will be super smooth. In fact, it's the cleanest herb you will ever smoke. It does lose some "bag appeal", as the herb tends to "shrink" a bit, but it is fine for smoking. I sometimes use this method on samples of bud to see how much crap is in it. The water cure doesn't lie, and you will be shocked at how much junk comes out of it, stuff that you would have been smoking. Burns clean with white ash. By the way, after a water cure, let it dry before smoking. This happens very quickly. Forgot to mention: jar should be filled to the top with water. No air. It will not mold.

 

[Team Microbe]

There are threads here on water curing, but I'll sum it up for you, as I have done it, both as a remedy for over fed herb, and as a test to see how much junk is in the herb.
Take a sample of buds, and put them in a jar. Fill jar with water. This does not hurt the herb, as THC is not water soluble. Leave it overnight. The next day, after osmosis forces chemicals out of the bud, look at the water and you will see it is brown, and it smells really bad. Dump the water and repeat this process every day for a week. By week's end, you will see that the water is clear and the smell is gone. Remove herb, and you have clean herb with no chemicals/fertilizers in it. It will not smell as strong, but it will not lose any potency, and the smoke will be super smooth. In fact, it's the cleanest herb you will ever smoke. It does lose some "bag appeal", as the herb tends to "shrink" a bit, but it is fine for smoking. I sometimes use this method on samples of bud to see how much crap is in it. The water cure doesn't lie, and you will be shocked at how much junk comes out of it, stuff that you would have been smoking. Burns clean with white ash. By the way, after a water cure, let it dry before smoking. This happens very quickly. Forgot to mention: jar should be filled to the top with water. No air. It will not mold.

That is mind blowing. I'll try it out and see what happens because that is interesting as hell

 

[StrongBeef]

Another thing, nitrogen doesn't make a bad taste. Nitrogen from nitrates does. Look into that and learn the difference and see why green plants at harvest is not a bad thing. I add less N to my full season 400 gal pots than most do in their 5 gal indoor plants. I still finish nice and green, just have to learn what the plant actually wants, and what other factors cause green leaves.

How will a flushing agent aid in plant senescence exactly? That's interesting.

Green plants come harvest eh? Do you prefer the taste of nitrogen, or do you just like the visual aspect of it? (Plants should never be green upon harvest if they finish properly)

And what's your theory behind nutrition and PM prevention? In my experience I've seen PM sprout up due to low immune systems in my plants. When I have a healthy garden with sufficient air flow I have no problems with PM. Outdoors is a different story however, and genetics really play a huge role in prevention. That and an IPM routine with Neem included in the regimen.

Where did you hear that excess water at the end of the cycle "flushes out goodies" exactly? I know for a fact this isn't true, it's actually one of the biggest misconceptions in the stoner world. It's a lot more complicated than that unfortunately man. Residuals reside in the cell walls of the plant tissues, and "flushing" as they like to call it... does no justice to what's already been done. You can flush maybe 50% of those bottled nutrients out of the soil but what's in the plant is there to stay since most of those nutrients are immobile.




Please (no offense) know what you're talking about before giving advice on forums, because some people believe everything they read and will practice it in real life then wonder why things aren't going how they planned.

 

[StrongBeef]

BTW - not a spot of PM or mildew on 30+ pounds grown outdoors harvested in Nov. Proof is in the pudding man.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=252843
Plant sap ph, why you want to keep your plant ph at 6.4 and what nutrient deficiencies cause ph swing. Then when ph is high or low, this is when bugs or pm can grab a hold of your plant.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=289990
The guys that are developing this nutrient program also have a sister company that specializes in plant sap analysis. Study the information they have found on what causes certain nutrient deficiencies. This is a huge part of growing, if you don't understand this then you need to study.

Many other sources for the same information, just trying to point you in the right direction.

 

[StrongBeef]

How do you know your plants are green because of too high of N? What other factors can cause green leaves? If you haven't tested your soil, then your just guessing.

 

[Weird]

higher levels of nitrogen in the plant at harvest equate to higher levels of nitrogen oxide that is in the smoke are they not?

 

[StrongBeef]

yes, they are. Left over nitrogen is bad. When your plant starts to convert nitrogen to amino acids, peptides and best yet, protein is when green plants at harvest can be a good thing. This isn't easily accomplished so most dismiss quickly.