No troll - they use bullshit in organics
We don't feed plants e.coli and salmonella in hydroponics pal. You're a tad confused.
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New kelp derived paclo
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No troll - they use bullshit in organics
We don't feed plants e.coli and salmonella in hydroponics pal. You're a tad confused.I think there is a commn error that people make when they have a predisposition to a conclusion. I know I have been guilty of it before as well, I really believed delicious dank was not possible with salts, but it totally is! In fact I get terpier more consistent results with salts than I ever did with solid organics. It's really easy to find bad salt grown weed, there is no doubt about it. Honestly, truly honestly, most weed is shit, so it's really easy to say, well those methods don't work. The truth is if you smoked absolute dank, you would assume it was grown in the way your predisposed to, and I probably wouldn't argue with you
At the end of the day the more open minded you can be the happier your garden will be.
Don't feed the trolls mate. Sadly these dumb asses aren't even worthy of response. It would have been great to have been trolled by more intelligent trolls but there you go. I thought there were rules about needing to be 18 on this forum BTW.
damn this thread is crazy…dont even know where to begin.
one of my 100% organic buddies used a fuckload of norwiegan kelp this year, aka triacontonal. he was top dressing it and brewing it into teas up until the last few weeks of flower (open sun)...
his buds came out rock hard and super dense, almost exactly like PBZ buds I've seen in the past. honestly not a fan of them, his weight is high but they just look like commercial paclo bud. but he's "organic" so still has a snobby attitude about using it….but i just thought its funny because he was super anti bushload yet his nugs look like someone used bushload.
haven't heard of this mendo avalanche but sounds interesting. il have to come back and re-read this thread when I'm not drunk/stoned at 2am.
i have a bunch of gorilla glue at week 2 of flower and I'm really debating on how to rock her up a bit more.
glow have thou heard of Rock Resinator? thats the new debated product right now…not sure what to think of that one either they swear theres no PGRs in it but after reading this thread it looks like these hydroponic nutrient guys know how to hide them pretty easily.
one of my 100% organic buddies used a fuckload of norwiegan kelp this year, aka triacontonal. he was top dressing it and brewing it into teas up until the last few weeks of flower (open sun)...
his buds came out rock hard and super dense, almost exactly like PBZ buds I've seen in the past. honestly not a fan of them, his weight is high but they just look like commercial paclo bud. but he's "organic" so still has a snobby attitude about using it….but i just thought its funny because he was super anti bushload yet his nugs look like someone used bushload.
haven't heard of this mendo avalanche but sounds interesting. il have to come back and re-read this thread when I'm not drunk/stoned at 2am.
i have a bunch of gorilla glue at week 2 of flower and I'm really debating on how to rock her up a bit more.
glow have thou heard of Rock Resinator? thats the new debated product right now…not sure what to think of that one either they swear theres no PGRs in it but after reading this thread it looks like these hydroponic nutrient guys know how to hide them pretty easily.
Your buddies thing with the Norwegian kelp is exactly how this thread got started, makes me feel Better that you where under the same impression I was. According to glow, no naturally occurring PBz in nitrozyme or any of the Norwegian/non Norwegian kelp. Kind of makes me wonder about all the paclo looking hay rocks I see where dudes like "no man, that's all kelp....." Starting to think there might be a little bottle of bush load hiding in these peoples closets lol. NO idea about your friend but I have seen plenty of paclo looking nugs attributed to kelp.
Honest to god man, the older I get the less I wanna be fucking with other peoples nugs. The world is sketch as fuck when your paying attention! I don't feel like most of these people are paying attention.
Are we sure kelp meal/seaweed extract contains Triacontanol?
stevewinthrop
Member
No, we aren't sure. I'm pretty sure that kelp does not have triacontanol though! And as a user of kelp, I will say it does not halt stretch at all either, in fact it does the opposite if anything.
Then again, are these people sure that what they're using is actually kelp? With nothing else added? I use powdered maxicrop, ingredients: kelp. If it has triacontanol then they found some magical way to make the powder water soluble.
I think it just comes down to that kelp and Tria benefit the plant around the same time in the cycle so they are combined.
To the best of my knowledge kelp has no naturally occurring Tria, and according to glow (who I believe is a good resource) it does not contain PBz. I kind of suspect the kelp Tria mix was born from products like gh's floralicious plus. I believe it is a matter of convenience that they are adding the Tria to the kelp, they also add fulvics, the overall effect is pleasing, you get the increased health and flower set that I believe kelp is responsible for, the increased cell division that causes the benefit to Tria and the uptake increase from the fulvic. It's not a miracle product found in one place in nature, but that doesn't vilify it in my opinion.
I no longer use floro+ in veg rooms if there is any danger of heat! IMHO go over 82 in a non enriched veg room feeding floro+ or any Tria supplement and you are gonna stretch the fuck out of all of those awesome nodes you stacked. Tria used in a perfect environment, no problem, go figure.
I guess the big question is what does kelp itself actually do? I honestly don't know, I suspect it is rich in different trace and almost definitely benefits whatever biology is present. I think it is just convenient to bundle up different beneficial supplements and call them kelp. In sterile hydro or even coco I would say fuck you to kelp, it's horrible in a res, instant funk. Time of use mixing though And I think kelp is well worth it.
Actually I think kelp and fulvic supplements, carbs, Tria, amino acids, mychroriza , act's, are all perfect examples of how to run salts while still getting the full benefit of biology. Anyone who says biology doesn't exist in a salt fed media is either ignorant or over feeding the salts. It takes a little compromise to span the gap but it is fully possible to get most of the benefits of organics and most of the benefits of salts without poisoning strangers or yourself. To say "no I'm synthetic, not fucking with that, or no I'm organics not gonna do that, is silly.
I suspect if the hobby industry still exists in a few years (which I believe it will) it's gonna look a lot more like auroras soul synthetics line, salt based but with an eye on biology.
Hahaha it surprised me I had this much shit to say! I had no idea I cared lol, you guys do you, I'll do me, we can get together and burn one, and if it's good we can all just assume it was done however we wanted it to be done
I did not think kelp/seaweed extract contained Triacontanol...but you never know what science discovered yesterday.
As to...what does kelp/seaweed extracts do for plants...a lot; primarily: growth stimulation, stress alleviation and source of nutrients. How and why...now that is not very well understood.
One of the best science papers about seaweed extracts is titled, "Seaweed Extracts as Biostimulants of Plant Growth and Development" is the attached pdf. Good basic primer and with lots of detail.
"Moreover, seaweed and seaweed-derived products have been
widely used as amendments in crop production systems due to the
presence of a number of plant growth-stimulating compounds.
However, the biostimulatory potential of many of
these products has not been fully exploited due to the lack
of scientific data on growth factors present in seaweeds and
their mode of action in affecting plant growth. This article
provides a comprehensive review of the effect of various
seaweed species and seaweed products on plant growth and
development with an emphasis on the use of this renewable
bioresource in sustainable agricultural systems."
And cool things like:
"Seaweeds and seaweed products enhance plant chlorophyll
content (Blunden and others 1997). Application of a low
concentration of Ascophyllum nodosum extract to soil or on
foliage of tomatoes produced leaves with higher chlorophyll
content than those of untreated controls."
"Seaweed concentrate triggers early flowering and fruit set
in a number of crop plants (Abetz and Young 1983;
Featonby-Smith and van Staden 1987; Arthur and others
2003)."
Very detailed and excellent list of references (4+ pages) for those that like advanced research.
As to...what does kelp/seaweed extracts do for plants...a lot; primarily: growth stimulation, stress alleviation and source of nutrients. How and why...now that is not very well understood.
One of the best science papers about seaweed extracts is titled, "Seaweed Extracts as Biostimulants of Plant Growth and Development" is the attached pdf. Good basic primer and with lots of detail.
"Moreover, seaweed and seaweed-derived products have been
widely used as amendments in crop production systems due to the
presence of a number of plant growth-stimulating compounds.
However, the biostimulatory potential of many of
these products has not been fully exploited due to the lack
of scientific data on growth factors present in seaweeds and
their mode of action in affecting plant growth. This article
provides a comprehensive review of the effect of various
seaweed species and seaweed products on plant growth and
development with an emphasis on the use of this renewable
bioresource in sustainable agricultural systems."
And cool things like:
"Seaweeds and seaweed products enhance plant chlorophyll
content (Blunden and others 1997). Application of a low
concentration of Ascophyllum nodosum extract to soil or on
foliage of tomatoes produced leaves with higher chlorophyll
content than those of untreated controls."
"Seaweed concentrate triggers early flowering and fruit set
in a number of crop plants (Abetz and Young 1983;
Featonby-Smith and van Staden 1987; Arthur and others
2003)."
Very detailed and excellent list of references (4+ pages) for those that like advanced research.
stevewinthrop
Member
I think it just comes down to that kelp and Tria benefit the plant around the same time in the cycle so they are combined.
To the best of my knowledge kelp has no naturally occurring Tria, and according to glow (who I believe is a good resource) it does not contain PBz. I kind of suspect the kelp Tria mix was born from products like gh's floralicious plus. I believe it is a matter of convenience that they are adding the Tria to the kelp, they also add fulvics, the overall effect is pleasing, you get the increased health and flower set that I believe kelp is responsible for, the increased cell division that causes the benefit to Tria and the uptake increase from the fulvic. It's not a miracle product found in one place in nature, but that doesn't vilify it in my opinion.
I no longer use floro+ in veg rooms if there is any danger of heat! IMHO go over 82 in a non enriched veg room feeding floro+ or any Tria supplement and you are gonna stretch the fuck out of all of those awesome nodes you stacked. Tria used in a perfect environment, no problem, go figure.
I guess the big question is what does kelp itself actually do? I honestly don't know, I suspect it is rich in different trace and almost definitely benefits whatever biology is present. I think it is just convenient to bundle up different beneficial supplements and call them kelp. In sterile hydro or even coco I would say fuck you to kelp, it's horrible in a res, instant funk. Time of use mixing though And I think kelp is well worth it.
Actually I think kelp and fulvic supplements, carbs, Tria, amino acids, mychroriza , act's, are all perfect examples of how to run salts while still getting the full benefit of biology. Anyone who says biology doesn't exist in a salt fed media is either ignorant or over feeding the salts. It takes a little compromise to span the gap but it is fully possible to get most of the benefits of organics and most of the benefits of salts without poisoning strangers or yourself. To say "no I'm synthetic, not fucking with that, or no I'm organics not gonna do that, is silly.
I suspect if the hobby industry still exists in a few years (which I believe it will) it's gonna look a lot more like auroras soul synthetics line, salt based but with an eye on biology.
Hahaha it surprised me I had this much shit to say! I had no idea I cared lol, you guys do you, I'll do me, we can get together and burn one, and if it's good we can all just assume it was done however we wanted it to be done
I use kelp in a res and it's always been fine. Turns the water brown, but never any bad smells or problems. My foliar spray for last two weeks of veg and first two weeks of flower is maxicrop powder (seaweed), aloe, yucca (surfactant) and recently added triacontanol. Boy it gets them going, that's for sure. It made the girls reach for the sky without the triacontanol, but the node spacing is very tight despite the long stretch.
It's probably all doing nothing special, and I'd probably get the same end result without Seaweed or tria or anything but NPK, but what fun is that? Gives me something extra to do when I'm spending time in my garden.
If Rock Resinator is on the Ca and Oregon markets in stores I suspect it's been tested for chem PGRs. It's made by Mark Harding, an Australian HA member who does sell chem PGR products but no idea about Resinator. What's it do? Does it stop upward growth? And yes it is relatively easy to hide some PGRs because the testing is limited to only a few of the PGRs that could be used. I know the CDFA though is monitoring the situation and they know the Australian companies should be watched carefully.
Just as a word of caution - be a bit careful about reading soil based research and the thinking the same things will occur in hydroponics. Certainly though, seaweeds can be beneficial in hydroponics - I tend to use them more as a foliar, rather than having them full time in the Res. Great bio food also, so if you are using bennies kelps act as a food supply for them (one reason you would use kelp in the Res).
PS. I don't think TRIA is found in kelps - it is found in some plant waxes but I've never read any info re kelp being a source of TRIA. I could be wrong here but no paper I have read on kelps (and there has been many) discusses TRIA in kelps.
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Yes they are two different worlds, but--
1. Wouldn't the results of seaweed extract sprayed on container plants (soil-less & hydro) be the same/similar to "soil based"? After all, a foliar spray...is a foliar spray.
2. Granted, hydro growing does have it's own set of "rules" (feed the "rez" vs feed the "soil"), but I would imagine for both "containers" and "soil based" growing, the plant's rhizosphere needs should be rather similar...unlike the rhizophere of hydro plants. But seaweed extract can be used by both systems (hydro and non-hydro) with plants receiving similar benefits...not the same, but kinda similar plant growth.
Since my hydro skills suck, smarter people than me will probably know more of "what is" and "what isn't" the same for seaweed extract.
1. Wouldn't the results of seaweed extract sprayed on container plants (soil-less & hydro) be the same/similar to "soil based"? After all, a foliar spray...is a foliar spray.
2. Granted, hydro growing does have it's own set of "rules" (feed the "rez" vs feed the "soil"), but I would imagine for both "containers" and "soil based" growing, the plant's rhizosphere needs should be rather similar...unlike the rhizophere of hydro plants. But seaweed extract can be used by both systems (hydro and non-hydro) with plants receiving similar benefits...not the same, but kinda similar plant growth.
Since my hydro skills suck, smarter people than me will probably know more of "what is" and "what isn't" the same for seaweed extract.
BubbaBear
Member
https://m.facebook.com/Nutrifield/posts/10152260435927460
Alaska Pure is a pure kelp additive used as a flower hardener so is G10 so Yes4prop215 buddy isnt alone using this method. Nutrifield the manufacture of Alaska Pure and Humboldt Counties Own are both known for putting out PGR products though so it makes you wonder if theres some secret sauce in there.
BubbaBear
Member
Resinator has that tricantonol smell plus theres some aminos, sugars and PK
BubbaBear
Member
Interesting, I've heard of shroom extracts being used before, its supposedly the magic behind those little Green Fuse bottles, check out this stuff from Growers Secret its over $6000 a gallon ! I need to learn how to make some of these super plant extracts.
http://www.growerssecret.com/professional/
1. Wouldn't the results of seaweed extract sprayed on container plants (soil-less & hydro) be the same/similar to "soil based"? After all, a foliar spray...is a foliar spray.
The answer to this one is pretty much yes, although in hydro the benefits of the nutrient ions provided by kelp are perhaps wasted because of far better nutrient status in hydroponics. However, things such as cytokinins, auxins, betaines etc will provide benefits.
The key thing to using organics in hydro is to not use too much organic material in solution because it can create low oxygen conditions. I use fulvic acid in solution for chelation and complexing, and a ferment of molasses and sugars (dextrose and glucose) and starch when using Trichoderma, so I tend to be cautious about adding more organic matter to the Res. Hence foliar spraying versus in solution. Plus by foliar spraying the larger molecules have a better chance of getting to where they are most needed
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dabking
Member
What about ultra trace elements like Ni, Co, Se and Iodine. How often are these provided by hydro nutes. And aren't they required to form enzymes. I think foliar kelp and/or sea water is an excellent add when using salts.
