the same way the wall between the US and Mexico has stopped illegal immigration? Granted there's an ocean between here and Africa, but where there is a will there is a way.
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I wish these few ppl that have ebola in the USA would go public and tell us what is really going on behind the scenes. From what Ive heard, and read, the CDC told that one nurse she was safe to fly, then rescinded their statement saying they told her to avoid air travel..? Is that right? where are these ppl, I mean make a little video on your Iphone tell us whats going on behind the news and other media.
We are arguing the same point, containing it is what's necessary. The problem as it has been explained by the powers that be, is that even if a number of infected people make it here it will be easier to keep it from becoming a epidemic in our country due to knowledgable and more prepared healthcare workers. On the other hand if people start leaving in mass anyway they can and unknowingly spread it to more, possibly less prepared, countries then the numbers become to great to contain and large parts of the world pop are doomed. In other words, you may be better off letting people out and tracking them than having them sneak out to god knows where spreading Ebola along the way. The point you make about the CDC and others being incompetent does however throw a wrench into the works.
we'll get it together sooner than later. Health care workers are informing themselves and taking action. There will be more cases of Ebola in the US, but it won't reach epidemic status here or pandemic status.
It better be sooner, and it had better extend a great deal further than health care workers. When this outbreak was first reported on March 25th, there were 86 "suspected" victims in Guinea. The WHO said today that they anticipate 10,000 new case a week in west Africa by December 1st, and admit that their projections are based on data that might be way low.
By the way, Bobble, what "wall" would you be referring to up above?
*edit* - Not the best source (Wikipedia), but it should illustrate my point -
"The 1,951-mile (3,141 km) border between the United States and Mexico traverses a variety of terrains, including urban areas and deserts. The barrier is located on both urban and uninhabited sections of the border, areas where the most concentrated numbers of illegal crossings and drug trafficking have been observed in the past. These urban areas include San Diego, California and El Paso, Texas. As of August 29, 2008, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security had built 190 miles (310 km) of pedestrian border fence and 154.3 miles (248.3 km) of vehicle border fence, for a total of 344.3 miles (554.1 km) of fence. The completed fence is mainly in New Mexico, Arizona, and California, with construction under way in Texas"
By the way, Bobble, what "wall" would you be referring to up above?
*edit* - Not the best source (Wikipedia), but it should illustrate my point -
"The 1,951-mile (3,141 km) border between the United States and Mexico traverses a variety of terrains, including urban areas and deserts. The barrier is located on both urban and uninhabited sections of the border, areas where the most concentrated numbers of illegal crossings and drug trafficking have been observed in the past. These urban areas include San Diego, California and El Paso, Texas. As of August 29, 2008, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security had built 190 miles (310 km) of pedestrian border fence and 154.3 miles (248.3 km) of vehicle border fence, for a total of 344.3 miles (554.1 km) of fence. The completed fence is mainly in New Mexico, Arizona, and California, with construction under way in Texas"
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the border between the US and Mexico has both fences and walls between crossings, as well as video surveillance... But they still keep coming. Under, over, or through. The effort to contain hasn't stopped illegals, just made it more difficult. Closing the checkpoints would just lead to a surge in illegal immigration. Azmeds makes a good point about being able to screen people who have to go through checkpoints vs. forcing those people to find alternative methods of getting where they want to go..
as for the CDC blunders... Its poor communication, and speaking too soon. They shouldn't let CNN and the likes push them into making statements. If they don't say anything, they're reported on as not acting. Idk exactly what's going on in the CDC, but I know how a large bureaucratic organization works and there's a lot of breakdown in communication.
I just received an email about ebola... I guess I've been prepared? Lol no, we're not ready to handle these patients and it shows. However we're gonna start picking up the slack real soon b/c other hospitals are going to say "well we don't want to look like those assholes" and they'll have the proper ppe on hand and have staff trained and ready to receive Ebola patients. I heard that henry ford hospital is already doing Ebola drills.
there have been outbreaks in Africa before, and it never reached our shores until now. The reason it made it now is the increase in globalization. The reason Ebola is spread in Africa is the cultural practices of washing the dead. Here in the US we don't have that, and we have a better understanding of infection control. Once our nurses are educated, they will educate the public. Unless Ebola goes airborne, I'm confident there's little to worry about.
as for the CDC blunders... Its poor communication, and speaking too soon. They shouldn't let CNN and the likes push them into making statements. If they don't say anything, they're reported on as not acting. Idk exactly what's going on in the CDC, but I know how a large bureaucratic organization works and there's a lot of breakdown in communication.
I just received an email about ebola... I guess I've been prepared? Lol no, we're not ready to handle these patients and it shows. However we're gonna start picking up the slack real soon b/c other hospitals are going to say "well we don't want to look like those assholes" and they'll have the proper ppe on hand and have staff trained and ready to receive Ebola patients. I heard that henry ford hospital is already doing Ebola drills.
there have been outbreaks in Africa before, and it never reached our shores until now. The reason it made it now is the increase in globalization. The reason Ebola is spread in Africa is the cultural practices of washing the dead. Here in the US we don't have that, and we have a better understanding of infection control. Once our nurses are educated, they will educate the public. Unless Ebola goes airborne, I'm confident there's little to worry about.
It's a no brainer that all flights from Africa should have been halted the first time Duncan lied to get on the plane that brought ebola here. Had we blocked all flights from Africa, there would be no ebola in the U.S., which has to be our primary concern. The notion that this is racist is laughable. The race card is so torn tattered form over use, that it is meaningless, except to those who profit mightily from it, like the phony reverends and Obola. Our President, who just weeks ago announced that ebola would never come to the U.S., has now sent thousands of our soldiers into the hot zone. As their Commander In Chief, I believe he should go and lead them in the fight against this disease that was born in Africa, naturally, not by some vaccination or plot to depopulate the planet. It is well known that people in Africa are moving away from the hot zone, and heading towards South Africa and anyplace else that distances them from the hot zone. This means the disease will spread over the entire continent, and this is why all flights from Africa should be halted, to prevent the spread of the plague. Quarantining has been basic protocol against infectious diseases for many centuries. It was valid then, and it is valid now. Conversely, speeding up the spread of the disease to other continents and countries by allowing possibly infected people to travel by air is insanity. Travel from Africa's hot zone has been banned by St Lucia, a small Caribbean country of mostly blacks, and also Columbia. They do not want ebola in their countries, and rightfully so. Kudos to their leaders for protecting their people. It's unfortunate that our poor excuse for a leader hasn't done the same, but as Pat Buchanon wrote today, "political correctness" is now killing us, quite literally. Africa has been living in the dark ages for centuries. The main reason is abject poverty, which is caused by the lack of family planning, planned parenthood, or whatever you want to call it. Too many babies perpetuates poverty and ignorance, which leads to poor health conditions. We have poured billions into Africa for many decades, but it does little good, as this money is soon stolen by corrupt leaders/government. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Despite our best efforts to help, little progress has been made. Our only option now is quarantine.
About the flu: Influenza spreads around the world in seasonal epidemics, resulting in about three to five million yearly cases of severe illness and about 250,000 to 500,000 yearly deaths, rising to millions in some pandemic years. Source: Wikipedia.
Malaria kills 1.2 million per year, mostly in Africa, but also in other underdeveloped nations.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/feb/03/malaria-deaths-research
About the flu: Influenza spreads around the world in seasonal epidemics, resulting in about three to five million yearly cases of severe illness and about 250,000 to 500,000 yearly deaths, rising to millions in some pandemic years. Source: Wikipedia.
Malaria kills 1.2 million per year, mostly in Africa, but also in other underdeveloped nations.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/feb/03/malaria-deaths-research
As the quote I provided above said, just under 10% of the border is fenced to slow down pedestrian traffic. Not much of a deterrent - in many cases, you cannot tell where one country stops and the other starts.
It's pretty damn simple, actually. We are here because we are growers. If you have a well-established bunch of plants for feed stock and decide that you have to have the latest genetics being hyped on ICMAG, but they are only available from a chancy supplier, do you immediately put the new plants in with the ones that you have been maintaining for years, or do you quarantine them? Try and take a dog from the mainland to Hawaii, or Australia, or wherever and see what is required.
At the invitation of our incompetent President. Otherwise this would not be happening at the current pace. Diseases are being carried over the border, just not Ebola, yet. Many of the illegals are violent gang members, and many are convicted felons in this country, although they have been let loose on the public.
The CIS report released Wednesday and authored by the group’s director of policy studies, Jessica Vaughan, details the decline in immigration enforcement and reveals that there remain nearly 167,000 convicted criminal immigrants with final orders of removal still in the United States and “currently at large.”
“Prosecutorial discretion as practiced by the Obama administration has transformed immigration enforcement into a massive catch-and-release program that makes a joke of the law, fails to deter illegal settlement, and allows even illegal aliens who commit crimes to remain here,” Vaughan said Wednesday.
“These policies inflict real harm on Americans and legal immigrants,” she continued, “in the form of lost jobs, depressed wages, additional social services, and even lost lives. In addition, with the rise of ISIS and other terrorist groups around the world, our lax policies represent an unnecessary national security risk.”
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...t-Nearly-167-000-Criminal-Immigrants-At-Large
In addition, over 36,000 illegal alien felons were released onto the American public, including 198 murderers, hundreds of rapists and pedophiles, and thousands of other violent offenders. These people were released only on their promise to appear in court.
Of course they will not appear. The object of the administration is to make this a one party system, by importing illegals to vote Democratic.
This would not be happening if the administration was not courting it. So when will the first Ebola infected suicide typhoid Mary cross the border? Your guess is as good as mine. Stopping flights from Africa would seem to be the first line of defense.
it would seem to be the logical thing to do, but the argument against it is it will make it harder to track people who get on boats or travel over land borders. If they get out of Africa untraced and spread Ebola all over the place then you really do have a pandemic and no amount of isolationism will save you. Also it's a bit off topic but, the same general principle applies to dangerous people coming over the borders. Nobody thinks we shouldn't secure the border, but if we don't couple that with a sensible policy that lets nonviolent people come here through legal avenues then closing borders doesn't really help. You still have desperate people finding their way in and maybe the bigger problem, you still have unscrupulous employers hiring them.
I think that you guys are forgetting the limited time frame in which the ebola carriers have to do their traveling. Supposedly the incubation period is 21 days. Duncan passed a fever check on 9/19, started developing symptoms on 9/24, sought care on 9/25 and was sent home, went back to the hospital on 9/28 and was dead on 10/8. He knew when he was exposed, had family in the US and had made plans to come here prior to his exposure, and had the resources to do it.
In order to travel any significant distance without using an airplane, the victim would have to know that they were exposed and immediately start traveling because in under 4 weeks they will be too sick to travel. With the help of an airplane, they can get here and contaminate unknown numbers of people for 7-10 days before they get sick enough to require hospitalization.
Again, they need to be quarantined, whether it is on that end or this. It used to be common practice for immigrants, and as I stated above, is still commonly used even within US territories for animals. The expense would be insignificant in comparison to the cost of treating a handful of patients.
In order to travel any significant distance without using an airplane, the victim would have to know that they were exposed and immediately start traveling because in under 4 weeks they will be too sick to travel. With the help of an airplane, they can get here and contaminate unknown numbers of people for 7-10 days before they get sick enough to require hospitalization.
Again, they need to be quarantined, whether it is on that end or this. It used to be common practice for immigrants, and as I stated above, is still commonly used even within US territories for animals. The expense would be insignificant in comparison to the cost of treating a handful of patients.
I listen to Rush Limbaugh ( i am not a repub exactly) and find him kind of kooky and extreme often, and the drug issue with him is the height of irony. He is deaf now from Oxycontin abuse. He no longer makes fun of 'long haired, dope smoking, maggot infested ' liberals.
Anyways, he was saying Obama has to keep the borders open no matter what to make way for amnesty which he will try after the next elections so the Dems can avoid a backlash from that.
I now find that claim to be more and more credible. I suppose only a few people will die (hope anyways) from ebola in the US, but the political side of those deaths is disturbing. If you knew one of the dead would you feel so fine about all this?
Ebola is not the problem, it is a symptom of the 'we are the world' view from the dems. If you are not so white and preferably poor and unschooled, come on in!
I sent some money to Guatemala a while back to feed kids. Now that is not needed. They are sending their kids right to me and automatically taking my taxes to feed them.
Rives, there is a limited time frame, but the worry is not necessarily that some one will sail or walk all the way here before they die. All they need to do is make it to a neighboring country then people there get infected and make it somewhere else. Or maybe they can't get into the US, but fly somewhere in europe or asia (most people who fly here from africa stop somewhere else first), or maybe they are just trying to get home to India or something and then they spread it there. Soon you have to close the borders to people and goods from all over the world. The point is the global community needs to treat this situation very seriously, but knee jerk reactions aren't always the best thing. My first instinct was fuck it quarantine em too, but that may just exacerbate the problem.
Yesum, however the immigration debate plays out there will be a bunch of people who came illegally that get to stay, although I'm not sure amnesty is exactly accurate. How do you suggest we get rid of these people, self deportation? What about the industries that have become reliant on their labor? If they don't get into trouble and pay back taxes, or what have you, why not let em stay? Neither party is doing a whole lot to fix this situation and they both bare some blame for letting it get to this point.
S
SPG.
Thx for rep,trichy..
^^kudos on the Pic
^^kudos on the Pic
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Why not let them stay? Because they broke our laws to get here. That makes them criminals, and makes a mockery of the people who go through the legal immigration process, sometimes waiting years and fighting long odds. Industries are not reliant on their labor. Industries are reliant on underpaying workers so they can profit more. They could pay a living wage, but they just don't care about the 99%. The blame is not equally shared by both parties. The Democrats are using illegals as a weapon to make this a one party system. The Republicans are pandering to the Hispanic vote, just trying to keep up with the Joneses. The important group who are being ignored here are the American people. They are overwhelmingly against illegal immigration, knowing that this causes lower wages and fewer jobs for them, while at the same time increasing crime/congestion here, as our standard of living decreases. That's not to mention the sacrifices made by the parents/grandparents of second and third generation Americans, whose ancestors fought in two world wars, with millions losing their lives to make the world safe and our country number 1. To turn it around, check Mexico's immigration laws. Americans cannot live there without depositing vast sums of money. There are no benefits for Americans trying to emigrate to Mexico. No food stamps, no welfare, no health care, nothing. The people are against this invasion, but the politicians don't represent us. The best we can do is vote the bums out every 4 years to minimize the damage they can do. Campaign finance reform and our system of bribery has to stop. The bribe takers must be held accountable. The 1% now own 48% of the planet, with their share ever increasing. Their greed is insatiable, and they own our politicians, many of whom are 1% ers themselves.
regarding the U.S - Mexico border debate, I'd like to say something:
Lets not forget that the greater part of responsibility for illegal Mexican immigration into the U.S is the Mexican Government itself; Mexico being blessed with so many natural resources and a huge land full of potential industries, is sunken in one of the most corrupt leaderships that have ever existed.
think about how hopeless it must be in some places in Mexico, that people rather risk getting shot at and killed as they cross the border into the U.S than stay home without a future.
Lets not forget that the greater part of responsibility for illegal Mexican immigration into the U.S is the Mexican Government itself; Mexico being blessed with so many natural resources and a huge land full of potential industries, is sunken in one of the most corrupt leaderships that have ever existed.
think about how hopeless it must be in some places in Mexico, that people rather risk getting shot at and killed as they cross the border into the U.S than stay home without a future.
They did break the law getting here, but like you say it was nearly impossible to get in here legally for many of them. They are here now and in many ways they are ingrained in our society/economy. It just seems to me like completely getting rid of everyone who has come here illegally since the last immigration deal is a pipe dream. So accepting that premise, why not try to incorporate them into the system as fairly as possible while addressing the very real concerns that you bring up with immigration reform.
