Broad Mite and Spider Mite IPM for Cannabis (lets get a convo going)

[Former Guest]

just so this thread doesn't turn out argumentative like the other one and waste pages and people time reading through arguing, I think we should just ignore the posts of people disagreeing.

I am still optimistic and many people on this thread agree that we would like to have all the info needed on the first post instead of having to read a long thread that spans over three years time.

everyone knows about the heat treatment retro, you post on every broad mite thread like its a personal mission of yours. its very well noted. thx.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

Only the truly clueless are just finding out about it now..

theres no broadmites in certain isolated communities outside of cali where people have never need to know about them, these arent clueless growers necessarily. theres also people like stasis whove read the threads and for whatever reason keep having issues. i think its valuable for people to have a concise easy to digest thread thats starts page one with 99 % of the answers people are looking for without having to read 1600 posts about how much people hate each other. then there are highly intelligent people who are just starting their first ever grow and may become future leaders in the field but are atm, new at it. this thread is way more valuable to them than the early bm thread where the facts and methods were highly contentious and experimental have to be sifted out of bickering and petty self absorbed ranting. the ol mantra of "read the fucking thread dude" is kinda hard to take when that is impossible and ureasonable due to volumes of spit and venom. people have added incredibly useful tips and valuable techniques but theyve also burried it in squabbling.
lets get back on it.

 

[Former Guest]

all right....that is it....I'm getting my broad mite info from AG sites, my biological controls like mites information in the Biological Index which is short and sweet thx to Seafour and also one here https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=277908

and my IPM sprays from here an organic IPM sticky https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=258619

I did not even notice these stickys in the organic soil forum because when I am in that forum searching the stickys I am looking at soil recipes, compost tea stuff and basic growing advice and really did not take in the fact the organic infirmary info was there instead of the infirmary forum which doesn't have any sticky dedicated to IPM.

so have fun swinging your dicks in each others faces trying to one up. I thought this would be more civil. good luck to all of you who are dealing with this.

 

[caredrivensf]

all right....that is it....I'm getting my broad mite info from AG sites, my biological controls like mites information in the Biological Index which is short and sweet thx to Seafour and also one here https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=277908

and my IPM sprays from here an organic IPM sticky https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=258619

I did not even notice these stickys in the organic soil forum because when I am in that forum searching the stickys I am looking at soil recipes, compost tea stuff and basic growing advice and really did not take in the fact the organic infirmary info was there instead of the infirmary forum which doesn't have any sticky dedicated to IPM.

so have fun swinging your dicks in each others faces trying to one up. I thought this would be more civil. good luck to all of you who are dealing with this.

good luck!! hope you found some info. in here useful

 

[caredrivensf]

This thread is a joke. Broad mites are old news. Only the truly clueless are just finding out about it now. And no chemicals whatsoever are needed to kill them. Heat kills them. End of story. If you can't figure out how to heat up your space to 120F, you might as well give it up.

I can get my flower room s to 120 but not veg. sry not a closet grow but since you just wanted to hate I gotta point out that we ALREADY had heat treatment in the IPM from day 1 player before you ever decided to chime in and try to prove what a boss grower you are. I personally already know about all your weak lil tricks, all you gotta do is google broads mites lol.

Day 16- Hostile Environment (Temp)

quit making me son you fool

 

[RetroGrow]

Retro...to think there is just ONE WAY of doing anything is rather silly and narcissistic....btw, Broad Mites have been here longer than all of us, so "everything about Broad Mites is old news"...LOL!

For hobbyists with less than a dozen or so plants, sure heat might work, but for a larger scale operation, it is just not feasible. Nor will the heat treatment help plants that are not old/strong enuf as they will be destined to the compost pile after your heat treatment. Not so with a responsible application or two with certain chems/synthetics--no dead plants and no Broad Mites...and no heat stressed plants.

Some of us are tenacious and do not "give up".

Rubbish. Never said there was only one way to do things. There are smart ways of doing it and dumb ways of doing it. Continually using avid/forbid creates resistant strains. Forbid and avid resistant strains already are prevalent in Cali from over use of these dangerous toxins. Soon, they will be the norm, not the exception. Obviously you have never tried heat treatment, or you would not have made the ill informed statement you just made. Heat treatment, once dialed in, is much easier than spraying your plants every three days while rotating toxins. And, a proper heat treatment does no harm to the plants at all. Actually, they like it. OGBiowar also works, along with other beneficials, like CAPS.
Don't knock it until you've tried it. Since I know it works, your opinion on the subject is worthless, despite your love of arguing.

 

[RetroGrow]

theres no broadmites in certain isolated communities outside of cali where people have never need to know about them, these arent clueless growers necessarily. theres also people like stasis whove read the threads and for whatever reason keep having issues. i think its valuable for people to have a concise easy to digest thread thats starts page one with 99 % of the answers people are looking for without having to read 1600 posts about how much people hate each other. then there are highly intelligent people who are just starting their first ever grow and may become future leaders in the field but are atm, new at it. this thread is way more valuable to them than the early bm thread where the facts and methods were highly contentious and experimental have to be sifted out of bickering and petty self absorbed ranting. the ol mantra of "read the fucking thread dude" is kinda hard to take when that is impossible and ureasonable due to volumes of spit and venom. people have added incredibly useful tips and valuable techniques but theyve also burried it in squabbling.
lets get back on it.

I realize it's difficult to ignore those alerts on your I-phone, but maybe you should take a pause and think first before posting in real time. The redundancy of this thread is obvious to anyone who's been paying attention. You want to know what miticides to use for broad or cyclaman mites? Google it. Very simple. Anybody can do it, and you will have your answer. Now, if you can think outside the box and come up with something new, that would be interesting. I would love to hear it. I'm not holding my breath though. IMO, just repeating the same ole, same ole: avid/forbid is bad advice for reasons I already explained. The mites are already becoming resistant to these toxins. Only a matter of time before resistant strains will become dominant. But they will never become resistant to heat, they will never become resistant to OGBiowar, and they will never become resistant to essential oils. Since you are another one who has never tried the very simple heat treatment, maybe you should with hold judgement. Funny, as it's really simple, costs nothing, works 100%, and kills the mites in your room as well. As far as lazy people who refuse to read, I have no sympathy for them. You enjoy spoon feeding those people, so knock yourself out, but the redundancy is, well redundant. You might also consider spell check and punctuation, as it will make your posts more intelligible. I'll never understand why people don't just Google miticides for BMs, or just broad mites. In a few thousandths of a second, you will have your answers, if that's the route you insist on going. Very toxic and dangerous miticides are not for me. There are safer and better ways, without contributing to the inevitable mutation that will occur if people continue to use the same miticides. Progressive Options already has Avid and Forbid resistant strains. Funny how I got rid of BMs/cyclamans by using only aspirin & heat, as have many others. That's what the commercial greenhouse growers in Holland and other countries use. But ignore all that, and keep repeating the same old info, over & over, as the mites get more resistant on a daily basis.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

retros heat treatment is an excellent method if you can achieve the temps in your room. i think there are a few tricks to it. you gotta have good circulation i would imagine, but i would think you wouldnt wanna over do it. i remember reading that those propane tanks should be remote and fed to heaters in room by line because they are meant to blow off pressure at a temp that is dangerously close to the target temp.
getting a large room up that hot i could see being a challenge. has any one on here ever tried this in a larger 10 or more light space? larger 20-+ lights. strategies equipment suggestions?

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

sorry my "n " button is on the fritz, and im a really bad writer.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

its funy we posted those at the same time. lol. im not hating on you bro. i like the heat treatment

 

[RetroGrow]

retros heat treatment is an excellent method if you can achieve the temps in your room. i thik there are a few tricks to it. you gotta have good circulation i would imagine but i would think you wouldnt wanna over do it. i remember readin that those propane tanks should be remote and fed to heaters in room by line because they are mean to blow off pressure at a certain temp that is dangerously close to the target temp.
gettig a large room up that hot i could see being a challange has any one on here ever tried this in a larger 10 or more light space? larger 20-+ lights. stratedgies equip,ment suggestions?

Many people have done it in "large" rooms, although "large" is a relative term. Cup winners have used it. Propane tanks not necessary. Air movement not necessary. No fans, as the hot wind WILL burn some leaves. No AC, and lights on will bring temperature over 100, depending on outside temperatures. Then add either electric space heaters with the thermistors removed, or "outdoor" halide lights, available @ home Depot. They are enclosed in glass/metal, and generate a lot of heat. Once you have determined how many extra heat sources you need by trial and error, the process is simple to repeat, and can be repeated as often as necessary, even in flower, although it's recommended that treatment occur in veg. If you get more mites entering the room from outside, or another location in your space, it can be repeated as often as you like, for one hour at a time, although I know of someone who fell asleep and left temps @ 122 for over 6 hours with no damage to plants. It should also be used between runs, to keep room clean. Tarsonemidae cannot withstand those temperatures. No way. They melt. Eggs too.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

Many people have done it in "large" rooms, although "large" is a relative term. Cup winners have used it. Propane tanks not necessary. Air movement not necessary. No fans, as the hot wind WILL burn some leaves. No AC, and lights on will bring temperature over 100, depending on outside temperatures. Then add either electric space heaters with the thermistors removed, or "outdoor" halide lights, available @ home Depot. They are enclosed in glass/metal, and generate a lot of heat. Once you have determined how many extra heat sources you need by trial and error, the process is simple to repeat, and can be repeated as often as necessary, even in flower, although it's recommended that treatment occur in veg. If you get more mites entering the room from outside, or another location in your space, it can be repeated as often as you like, for one hour at a time, although I know of someone who fell asleep and left temps @ 122 for over 6 hours with no damage to plants. It should also be used between runs, to keep room clean. Tarsonemidae cannot withstand those temperatures. No way. They melt. Eggs too.

thanks i am glad you wrote that again here. its cool to know they can tolerate it that long. how was it on the baby clones. did you take any precautions with plants that have small rootballs, thus lots of surface area?
and caredrivensf, i think its pertinent to bring up tarsimid mites in a general way for this because theres a lot of crossover relevance between all of them. cyclemins, russets, and broads share a lot of the same damage, pesticides, and treatments. this is an effective management technique for all of them right?
as for pesticides i think resistance would be way less likely if you are using both of those. the chances are way higher when you use only one of them. when using both pesticides, and hopefully other treatmets, i.e. mechanical, biological methods listed, youre not really likely to breed for resistance. whatever ones survive avid are unlikely to also survive a totally different mode of action pesticide like kontos and/or forbid. and even if they do they they are now going to have to survive heat and and predator mites plus freaky mite eating microbes.
sounds like a solid bulllet proof ipm to me.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

and props to retro for bringing this treatment to the table and developing it for broads on canna specifically. if im not mistaken you were the first to try this and researched adequate parameters for cannabis with bms right?
this is a amazing thread and i think we could just go forward with a quickfire no nonsense in depth description of methods. bickering out of the way. maybe out of respect we could all just edit out the bullshit from our own comments and let this go forward without getting all escalatory. great thread and great info so far. be awesome if the arguments magically disappeared and others comments from our quoted sections. im going to go do that now. fuck all this nonsense. info only. respectful divergence of ideas and no blowing up when someone disagrees. that d be fucking awesome..

 

[EclipseFour20]

When one person says their treatment is "better" and all others are "stupid", IMHO it is synonymous as saying, "there is only one way doing something".

Then to believe their treatment is universal....of course assumes, everyone's environment, level of infestation, genetics, and plant health are all the same.

Retro, you presented you heat alternative...now move on. To preach about it from a church pulpit is rather nauseating.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Each treatment--chem or physical (heat) has consequences:

So under the "heat treatment" section of the IPM, the "potential side-effect disclosure" should include things like:

"Among various factors, temperature is one of the major environmental factor influencing the growth, survival, productivity, and natural geographic distribution of plants. It is reported that temperature above 30 °C has an adverse effect on photosynthesis and growth of a high THC yielding Mexican variety (MX) of Cannabis sativa (Chandra et al.2008)."

BTW, 30 °C is equal to 86 °F.

Source: Study titled, "Temperature response of photosynthesis in different drug and fiber varieties of Cannabis sativa L."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3550580/

"Plants exhibit a variety of responses to high temperatures, which are depicted by symptomatic and quantitative changes in growth and morphology. The ability of the plant to cope with or adjust to the heat stress varies across and within species as well as at different developmental stages. Although high temperatures affect plant growth at all developmental stages, later phenological stages, in particular anthesis and grain filling, are generally more susceptible. Pollen viability, patterns of assimilate partitioning, and growth and development of seed/grain are highly adversely affected. Other notable heat stress effects include structural changes in tissues and cell organelles, disorganization of cell membranes, disturbance of leaf water relations, and impedance of photosynthesis via effects on photochemical and biochemical reactions and photosynthetic membranes. Lipid peroxidation via the production of ROS and changes in antioxidant enzymes and altered pattern of synthesis of primary and secondary metabolites are also of considerable importance."

Source: Study titled, "Heat tolerance in plants: An overview" (very informative and concise paper about "plant heat tolerance"...part of my library).
http://www.academia.edu/4952754/Heat_tolerance_in_plants_An_overview

The thinking is...if one knows what the potential effects might be, then one can prepare/treat the plant prior/after treatment accordingly. Being informed is a good thing.

 

[iTarzan]

Plants do not like the heat treatment. There will be negative ramifications if you bake them like Retro advises.

 

[Oliver Pantsoff]

^^Ur wrong...Its been done several times with success. It will not harm your plants at all...

OP

 

[EclipseFour20]

Plants do not like the heat treatment. There will be negative ramifications if you bake them like Retro advises.

^^Ur wrong...Its been done several times with success. It will not harm your plants at all...

OP

IMHO, you are both right--"plants do not like heat" and "the heat treatment has been done several times with success" (defined here as no Broad Mites after treatment).

But has anyone had the plant tested before and after...like in the studies I cited? No. The only "evidence" anyone has that their plant came out OK...are the words of the person treating the plant...I call this "anecdotal evidence".

Sure the plant may be alive after the treatment, but what damage did it sustain? Or, taking the words from the 2nd study...what extent the heat treatment damaged the plant as a result of "structural changes in tissues and cell organelles, disorganization of cell membranes, disturbance of leaf water relations, and impedance of photosynthesis via effects on photochemical and biochemical reactions and photosynthetic membranes...."?

Anecdotal evidence...what is? From Wiki--
"Anecdotal evidence is considered the least certain type of scientific information.[15] It is the opposite of scientific evidence.[16] Researchers may use anecdotal evidence for suggesting new hypotheses, but never as validating evidence."

Let's just say, the effect of heat treatments on cannabis plants is "inclusive". Some die, some live--but heat treatment is an option available and should not necessarily be "kicked to the curb" so fast.

 

[Payaso]

I have asked caredrivensf to stop posting rude argumentative posts for no reason, and he's taking a week's vacation from the site.

 

[RetroGrow]

IMHO, you are both right--"plants do not like heat" and "the heat treatment has been done several times with success" (defined here as no Broad Mites after treatment).

But has anyone had the plant tested before and after...like in the studies I cited? No. The only "evidence" anyone has that their plant came out OK...are the words of the person treating the plant...I call this "anecdotal evidence".

Sure the plant may be alive after the treatment, but what damage did it sustain? Or, taking the words from the 2nd study...what extent the heat treatment damaged the plant as a result of "structural changes in tissues and cell organelles, disorganization of cell membranes, disturbance of leaf water relations, and impedance of photosynthesis via effects on photochemical and biochemical reactions and photosynthetic membranes...."?

Anecdotal evidence...what is? From Wiki--
"Anecdotal evidence is considered the least certain type of scientific information.[15] It is the opposite of scientific evidence.[16] Researchers may use anecdotal evidence for suggesting new hypotheses, but never as validating evidence."

Let's just say, the effect of heat treatments on cannabis plants is "inclusive". Some die, some live--but heat treatment is an option available and should not necessarily be "kicked to the curb" so fast.

Total BS from someone who has never done it. If done right, there is ZERO damage to the plants. ZERO. That's why professional farmers and greenhouses use it. Do you think they would be using it for many years if it was damaging plants? No! There is nothing inconclusive about it, except in your imagination. No plants die using this process properly. You just made that up. In nature, temperatures get extremely hot, especially in tropical areas, where temperatures can remain hot for weeks at a time, and yet, plants survive. Santa Ana winds? Plants survive. One hour of heat under controlled conditions? No damage at all. If someone damages their plants by blowing fans on the plants while temperatures are raised, that is grower error. Even that will only burn some leaves. Plant will not die. Follow instructions and there will be no problems, despite your ill informed and dismissive comments. That's just you, and to be expected.