*The K.I.S.S. Method*

[papaduc]

well heres i think most of my questions

- when using Dutchmaster nutrients they recommend 1000ppm @ .5, which is 2.0ec. you're saying that running maxibloom ONLY at 1ec (500ppm @ .5 conversion) is sufficient during flower?

First rule of growing: Forget nute recommendations, they're bullshit.

Second part of your question, no, 1.0ec is only for maxigrow in veg. It also applies to any other nutrient structured like maxigrow (in other words a proper base feed with a similar NPK ratio)

- whats the ideal PH in dwc for flower and veg in your opinion? 5.6-5.8?

I don't grow DWC mate, I'm in coco. I would say don't obsess about getting the perfect answer. The DWC boys usually say to set it at 5.6 and let it drift up to 6.2 or thereabout. I'd say you won't go far wrong with that. It makes sense.

- some people use koolbloom late in flower, do you think its necessary, meaning will it add extra weight to the final product?

This is a good question. On a high phosphate feed like maxibloom, I can't see how adding in even more phosphorus would benefit the plant in any way. It's something that doesn't make any sense to me. I can't see any way that extra phosphorus would be used. Put it this way, if you compare maxibloom alone to other standalone nutrients, the ratio is close to where you'd be if you were already using a pk booster to adjust your nutes.

So, in short, no, I don't think adding koolbloom will be of any benefit in terms of adding size and weight to your harvest. The only way to know for sure is to use it in a side by side.

i purchased cultured solutions bud booster which is basically very veyr similar to koolbloom. i used the recommended dose of 1/4tsp per gallon (i added 2tsp for 10gallons thinking it'd be strong) and my PPM was only at like 300 (which is i believe 0.6ec). so i added some maxibloom also at half dose which brought it up to 1.4. since thats only 700ppm that seemed low compared to what DM recommended on their bottled nutrients so i added 2 more tsp's bringing it up to 1.7ec.. should i drain and refill at just 1.0ec? and should i bother using the bud booster or just maxibloom? i understand that maxibloom will work good enough, but i guess my main wonder is if using the bud booster is going to add weight to the final product or if there is absolutely no benefit at all.

If the NPK ratio of two feeds are the same, it doesn't matter which one you use to get to your desired EC. They all use the same chemicals, every one of them.

Whether there are PGR (plant growth regulators) in your product or not is what you need to find out. That will be the only thing which could be different other than the NPK values of them.

The second part of this question is answered with your last question in the post at the bottom.

- i have read that if you are using lower EC's (1 is pretty low) then you wont really have build up in your plants and no flush is really necessary. if running at 1ec would you recommend a week or 2 of water only at the end (in DWC), and if so, how long?

Again I'll answer some of this at the bottom. But if you're in the right range with your feeding, as soon as you take away the nutrients your plants will begin to pale, so very little flushing is needed. You don't want dark waxy looking leaves and burned tips on your grow. You're aiming to get to the end without that. How well you do it depends a lot on experience and learning grow after grow.

also do you see any benefit to using half grow half bloom first 2 weeks of flower? seems that it would provide a more balanced amount of potassium and nitrogen, leading to not only healthier foliage growth during the stretch, but more budsites due to higher levels of potassium. or would you just go full on maxibloom from day 1 of the switch

This is a good question. For the first week or so of flower, the same feed that got you through veg will be just as good in that week of stretch. You might need to bump it up by 0.2 you might not. Read the plant to know. If the bottom leaves pale at any point, that's your cue to up your feeds. If your plant is too dark, waxy, or gets slight minute tip burn, back off by 0.2ec.

As you get deeper into flowering the ratios need to change, you're right. Now.. this is where you stray into territory which no grower can ever tell you exactly what is the perfect thing to do for your plant.

If you look at the maxibloom, like I said before, it's a high phos feed. Now, people say use high potassium in flower.

This is where you're delving into the territory which will ultimately separate your results from the next person's; the incremental difference between good plants, very good plants, great plants, and perfect ones.

You can, once stretch is over, just stop using the maxigrow and switch to maxibloom at full strength. Loads of people do and have no problems.

But, if you mixed them 50/50 you'd also have a very good ratio of nutes for flowering, and would also be able to use them at a lower strength (closer to 1.0ec) without the plants fading from the immediate removal of the nitrogen.

You could also, if you felt your plants didn't need any more nitrogen in their feeds, drop the grow for that week, and so on.

All these things are dependent on your ability to read your plant, know what a good calyx to leaf ratio is, notice the signs of excess nitrogen etc. All these things will come naturally in time if your focus is on the right things, which it seems it is, rather than on magic potions. The maxi grow and bloom will give you the ability to tweak and adjust your nutes to whatever you think is the perfect point for you and each of your strains.

For now, if you're not experienced in doing these things, just get some basic grows under your belt and the rest will follow.

 

[RetroGrow]

also do you see any benefit to using half grow half bloom first 2 weeks of flower? seems that it would provide a more balanced amount of potassium and nitrogen, leading to not only healthier foliage growth during the stretch, but more budsites due to higher levels of potassium. or would you just go full on maxibloom from day 1 of the switch

There is absolutely NO REASON to use the "grow" formula at all. Bloom works from start to finish. That's the whole point of the thread, despite papaduck's attempts to derail it. By the way, he has not used either product, so don't be deceived. I would listen to the people who have actually been using it successfully for years, many of whom have posted in and contributed to this thread for years. Listening to an argumentative troll who just wants to reinvent the wheel to satisfy his obsessions is not a good idea. But to each his own.
I think I will go to the organic forum, and explain to them how wrong they are. Or, the H & G thread. We should all go there and start trolling. They need to be educated as to why their system of choice is just wrong. Don't like coco? Go to coco forum, and start trolling. I'm sure you could find a couple of clueless people there who could be persuaded to switch. But don't go on your own personal experiences or knowledge. That would fly in the face of logic, and papaduck will be happier if you do your garden HIS way, which isn't really his way at all, anyway. Lots of people use Grow and Bloom, but this particular thread is about using Bloom only, as a one part. I can assure you that it works really well. Plants absolutely love it, and you don't need to add anything to it if you choose, and you don't need to change anything about it. That's why it is so cool. One part all the way throughout your grow. What a concept. We could name it K.I.S.S.!
Short for "keep it simple, stoner". Keep it simple: ignore the troll.

 

[papaduc]

retro you come off as a d***. i was just asking because i have ran other nutes before with great success and just recently switched to maxibloom and am currently having problems with yellow leaves and black/brown spots... thought this was a place to ask questions. so if you dont have something positive to post i would greatly appreciate it if you kept your smart ass comments to yourself . thanks!

Retro-
IC didn't become this wealth of information and community based on sharing of ideas and knowledge it is today with attitudes, and more so egos, like that. And then you have influential new comers who see posts like that by members that should know better such as yourself, and stroke them along thinking it's the lay of the land and the cool thing to do.. And it's not. It perpetuates the cycle of those kinda posts and before you know it..this place is another online desert as far as members that are civil, willing to learn through discussion and debate, and most importantly willing to teach each other… Sure, people should be encouraged to read certain things and build some foundation as we all once required, but definitely not be afraid or ashamed, and especially not demeaned! for asking questions along the way...

It's sad man, but definitely reassuring to have members like str8edge around who prove in their posts that this place isn't gone just yet.

I can't imagine it pisses you off so much that when you see a reply to this thread at almost 200 pages and it isn't some groundbreaking, new, perplexing question that you can't help BUT reply with comments such as those... Give the guy a break. And yourself

Take it easy brother, and next time something pisses you off so much as to make another post like that(which is getting more common for you here as you become increasingly territorial/egotistical to the thread in a way, it's actually kinda crazy to watch bud) just sit back, press delete, and don't post anything at all. There'll always be members such as str8edge who have the time and patience to help out the new guys like resinscientist.

so instead you act like its your job to smack them down......give it a break.


peace

This person's involvement in this thread has become like that of an obsessive control freak weirdo who can't stand his beloved possession being played with by others.

This is not your thread. It was started by Ioni botani and despite you lecturing everyone in how to read it from the beginning, it seems it's you who is most in need of a recap to bring to your attention that maxiGROW was always and still is a fundamental part of the keep it simple principle. Contribute, or don't. I couldn't care less. You bore the shit out of me.

 

[sidewing]

There is absolutely NO REASON to use the "grow" formula at all. Bloom works from start to finish. That's the whole point of the thread, despite papaduck's attempts to derail it. By the way, he has not used either product, so don't be deceived. I would listen to the people who have actually been using it successfully for years, many of whom have posted in and contributed to this thread for years. Listening to an argumentative troll who just wants to reinvent the wheel to satisfy his obsessions is not a good idea. But to each his own.
I think I will go to the organic forum, and explain to them how wrong they are. Or, the H & G thread. We should all go there and start trolling. They need to be educated as to why their system of choice is just wrong. Don't like coco? Go to coco forum, and start trolling. I'm sure you could find a couple of clueless people there who could be persuaded to switch. But don't go on your own personal experiences or knowledge. That would fly in the face of logic, and papaduck will be happier if you do your garden HIS way, which isn't really his way at all, anyway. Lots of people use Grow and Bloom, but this particular thread is about using Bloom only, as a one part. I can assure you that it works really well. Plants absolutely love it, and you don't need to add anything to it if you choose, and you don't need to change anything about it. That's why it is so cool. One part all the way throughout your grow. What a concept. We could name it K.I.S.S.!
Short for "keep it simple, stoner". Keep it simple: ignore the troll.

directed toward both im highly experiennced in soil, new to dwc/hydro. ive successfully harvested many dozens of times inside and out. i can read the plant but theres so much conflicting info its hard to decipher which is valid and which is not.

that being said. with dutch masters nutrients (im on my 2nd dwc round, first round i used dutch master) i did see deficiencies running even slightly under 1.0ec. but i dont know if the maxigrow/maxibloom is different. maybe the balance of my bottled nutrients were off prior.

i added 3tsp of grow to 5gal of water and put me at 1.4ec (700ppm). so me being under t5's, i'd say thats a good max for me. i think 1ec in veg is probably solid advice unless the plant looks like it wants more.

now in flower i added 10 tsp of maxibloom to 10gal of water, and that put me at 1.7ec (or basically 850ppm @ 0.5 conversion) (starting 3rd week of flower). im under a 1k hps and its blue dream so i know it like to eat and its right at the most aggressive state in its life right now. from what i've read and what ive been told by others, that is a good spot to be. 800ppm is like a peak in flower for dwc (1.6ec).

but then i also have this wonder because in soil i'd use amendments and natural additives which need to break down and work differently. if you overdo it, the plant doesnt necessarily suffer. in hydro its synthetics so if you overdo it, the plant suffers.

in my opinion (not finishing a full round yet in hydro setting but having done a lot of reading on the topic) i would think 800-1000ppm (1.6-2.0ec) would be a max.

anybody experienced in hydro/dwc specifically and also experienced with maxibloom in flower please chime in to verify any information and let me know how exactly you are using the product (as directed at 1tsp per gallon?) and what is a max EC that you wouldnt cross in flower with these products?

edit: i did want to note that i do tend to agree that forcing the maximum amount of nutrients down the plants throat is not best for the plant, and i think giving them the minimum without deficiencies is the best route. not only for the plant but for the financial situation. i just want some experienced general guidelines (relating to dwc) as to what EC NOT to cross and a couple of numbers that most hover around for veg and for flower.

 

[sidewing]

i do appreciate your info papaduc and thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. i understand a lot of what im going into has to be figured out for myself. just looking for what others are doing successfully as far as ec levels with a similar setup at certain stages of the plants life

 

[papaduc]

Sidewing, it's no problem mate. I won't be deterred from sharing what I know by people who are criminally ignorant. And btw, not only do I have maxigrow, floranova, and about 3 or 4 other nutrients, but anybody who brings into question someone's experience using a specific brand of nutrients exposes a fundamental ignorance and lack of bare basic knowledge of plant feeding. When you understand gardening and you understand growing, you understand NPK values and what they mean to the plant. Once you know that, that's it. Brand doesn't matter, except to the ignorant who refuse to listen.

If you can keep your plant in perfect health through the vegetative stage with 1.0ec of maxigrow, or 1.8ec of maxibloom, which would you choose to use?

 

[sidewing]

of course the grow. i understand the point of the thread being if you wanted to you COULD run bloom thru grow by feeding twice as much, but from the first page of the thread i knew i was not going that route when a bag costs $15 dollars for bloom and the bag intended for veg state also cost $15 dollars. no reason in my mind to not spend the extra $15 dollars to get the one intended for that stage of life. plus as im sure we all know if you have to use twice as much how much money are you really saving.

i understand that in veg the goal ec is 1.0 for maxigrow or 1.8 with maxibloom. what my question was in flower state, what is the goal ec with maxibloom? or more simply what are you guys that are using it currently running your ec at when you flower? i know circumstances differ from strain to strain and different grow enviroments, just curious what ec you are flowering at with maxibloom.

in soil it differs slightly because you can give a heavy dose of n p and/or k and the plant will take what it needs as it needs it. and depending on what the source is it can be slow release, fast release, and either have the potential to burn or not. hydro/synthetics does not have that characteristic as everything is being force fed and available immediately without the need to be broken down. i guess part of my questions are still rooted in the knowledge of soil that some things need to be broken down and are not immediately available. which is something i need to get out of my mind now that i am using synthetic feed.

 

[RetroGrow]

As stated on page one, PPMS-800 or EC1.2-1.3 if you prefer.
Works great all the way through.
No need for anything else, or to change anything.
I don't know what you are talking about, re: costing twice as much. It's one of the most economical nutrients. Big buckets of it are cheap. 16 pound bucket of Maxibloom is $107, or $6.68 per pound, for a one part nutrient, nothing else needed. Compare to H&G @ $20 a pound.
If you prefer not to use the K.I.S.S. method, there is nothing wrong with that. It just wouldn't be the K.I.S.S. method. It's fertilizer, not rocket science. All fertilizers work. Haven't found one that didn't, including Dynagro, which is reasonably priced and they also have a one part.
I have used Maxi Grow with great results, then switching over to Maxibloom. Nothing wrong with that. Just not K.I.S.S.
The K.I.S.S. thread was conceived as a SIMPLE method of growing, suitable for new or experienced growers, wherein you only have to use one nutrient, nothing else. There are people on here who are excellent growers who have used it for years. It's not the only way to grow, or the holy grail, it's the K.I.S.S. method of growing, plain & simple & cheap.
Other methods of growing, other brands of fertilizer don't confront me. They just aren't K.I.S.S., and hence off topic in this thread, IMO.

 

[papaduc]

IMO.

The only bit of that whole post which actually mattered.

Now, if you can absorb the true meaning of those three little letters, everyone's a winner

 

[sidewing]

thanks. i went and looked again and dont see that info on page 1. but thank you everybody for the info.

 

[sidewing]

i did find that the maxigrow has a higher ec than maxibloom. incase anyone is interested.
1tsp maxigrow about .28 ec vs 1tsp of maxibloom about .17 ec. give or take. meaning the recommended dose of maxibloom on the bag is ok during flower (assuming you're ok running at 1.7EC aka 850ppm @ .5 conversion). recommended dose of maxigrow on bag too strong. IMO

edit: in 10gallons of water that is

 

[sanjuan]

I'm seeing a difference but it looks to me the MaxiGrow is only about 16% more conductive by weight compared to MaxiBloom.

Starting with two half gallons of tap water at 0.19mS, 2.95 grams yielded 1.64mS for MaxiBloom and 1.87mS for MaxiGro. MaxiBloom=1.45mS net, MaxiGro=1.68mS net (on the basis of six grams per gallon).

I should add, the MB was dispensed from a nearly full canister while the MG canister was closer to empty. The MaxiGro wasn't clumping but it might have absorbed more moisture than the MB.

 

[sidewing]

I'm seeing a difference but it looks to me the MaxiGrow is only about 16% more conductive by weight compared to MaxiBloom.

Starting with two half gallons of tap water at 0.19mS, 2.95 grams yielded 1.64mS for MaxiBloom and 1.87mS for MaxiGro. MaxiBloom=1.45mS net, MaxiGro=1.68mS net (on the basis of six grams per gallon).

I should add, the MB was dispensed from a nearly full canister while the MG canister was closer to empty. The MaxiGro wasn't clumping but it might have absorbed more moisture than the MB.

i would imagine using the provided scoop would give you a level feeding everytime. vs weighing the powder because as you mentioned it could have differing levels of moisture. both my bags are brand new and just opened when i did my readings so i would imagine moisture level had to be fairly similar if not near identical.

 

[Maj.Cottonmouth]

Even with the variance between wet and dry MB I still think weight is a more accurate measure. Take your one level scoop and tap the bottom a few times, how packed the MB is will make a huge difference in how much is in the scoop. Just my 2 bits.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

i just mix to e.c.. dont any of you dope growers own a damn scale?!

 

[sidewing]

i do mix to ec. and i do own a scale that goes to the hundredths. i honestly dont think it matters. its not a super concentrated dose like a late bloom powder pk boost. since im in dwc im actually going to run ec a little lower than the GH recommended dose. the point was how much does each tsb raise the ec so you know basically how much to give every time. doesn't really matter.

for me i want to run 1.4ec in DWC (maxibloom in flower) and that equals out to 8tsp per 10 gallons. running at that level if im a little over or a little under its not going to harm anything.

 

[RetroGrow]

i honestly dont think it matters.

It only matters if you have OCD. Otherwise, it doesn't make a particle of difference. A little more or a little less is meaningless. And the measuring spoon is there for a reason. It's all you need. One teaspoon per gallon. No need to weigh it at all. K.I.S.S.
Some people like to take something simple, and make it more complicated. It makes them feel better about themselves, and satisfies their compulsions. The plants won't notice the difference. They take what they need.

 

[leedsutd95]

silica is much more beneficial. Why use PH up when silica does the exact same job plus strengthens your plant 100%. I grow jackherrer and its so weak a plant, it cant hold itself up in veg never mind when in flower, now using silica i dont have to do any tieing up at all and the plants are super strong. PLEASE USE SILICA - NOT PH UP!!!!

 

[sidewing]

silica is much more beneficial. Why use PH up when silica does the exact same job plus strengthens your plant 100%. I grow jackherrer and its so weak a plant, it cant hold itself up in veg never mind when in flower, now using silica i dont have to do any tieing up at all and the plants are super strong. PLEASE USE SILICA - NOT PH UP!!!!

i decided to read thru the rest of the thread. i dont need to use silica my stems are unbelievably fat already just in veg. twice as fat as in soil the same age. silica feeds brown slime (bacteria based not root rot) in dwc and i have that issue in my res (i run benefical tea as preventative). i only need about 5 drops of AN ph up, its simple enough. 15 dollar bottle will last me probably 5 years.

im about 2 weeks into using maxigrow in veg. my plants are 1000x better than they were previously with dutchmaster. they're just entering their 4th week of veg and are beats. leaves bigger than my hand. roots are thriving big time with maxigrow and beneficial tea.




flowering plants are a different story. i got lazy on the tea application and got hit with some brown slime in my blue dream flower bucket about a week and a half ago. it damn near killed about 90% of my roots within 48 hours. i had to remove basically all the of the roots because they were so brittle they would come off with a baby tug. i started with the tea every 3 days and im seeing new root growth. another week and it should be back on track. so my plants were yellowing a little because the slime was causing them not to be able to eat properly, plus i was giving them dutch master gold A+B first 2 weeks of flower which i found is really light on nitrogen. those 2 factors combined and my blue dream became nitrogen deficient and now sluggish due to a hit in the root zone.

but it's growing still, has a decent amount of budsites, and i expect it to yield pretty good now going forward running tea and maxibloom only. i'll be giving half maxigrow and half maxibloom for the first 2 weeks of flower from now on to prevent any nitrogen deficiencies during the intial stretch. then weeks 3+ will be straight maxibloom.
heres my stunted blue dream in flower:


i feel its sort of pointless going into week 4 of flower dosing them with some grow to green it up a little at this point, i feel like if it was to be done it needed to be done a couple of weeks ago. plant is past the stretch stage already, maxibloom i think will have enough N at this stage to balance it out once the roots get going again.

 

[RetroGrow]

Hit them with Aquashield. Get rid of slime....