Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[Granger2]

Correction: Nematodes will attack almost anything in the soil. It is untrue that they only attack larvae. They will kick the asses of adult RA's.

Adult RA's are visible to the naked eye, but only just. That's if you have good eyes. I need my reading glasses, but they are visible. I prefer a wide field of vision low power magnifying glass. Good luck. -granger

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

Correction: Nematodes will attack almost anything in the soil. It is untrue that they only attack larvae. They will kick the asses of adult RA's.

Adult RA's are visible to the naked eye, but only just. That's if you have good eyes. I need my reading glasses, but they are visible. I prefer a wide field of vision low power magnifying glass. Good luck. -granger

Well even better Granger ! Never had adults due to nematodes from start to finish so never seen em attack adults before but that is great to hear from someone who had success with nematodes on adult RAs. It's the way to go moses they'll find food to eat if it's their because their survival depends on it they'll keep hunting till foods out (RAs).

AJAE

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

OK I will inoculate all newly planted clones with BTi, if FGs are the cause of the problem then I should see results in a couple weeks!...

If there is no improvement then I must doubt my eyesight, and treat for root aphids!

Kill two birds with one stone and use mosquito dunks crushed and sprinkled on top of soil/coco. Then use nematodes as well they both will hunt in your medium and will get the job

AJAE

 

[Corpsey]

My nematodes stunk when I opened them up. Smelled a bit anaerobic, was that normal?
Shipping in the middle of summer could of been it too

 

[cannascholar]

They usually don't have much smell. After $1,500 or so on nematodes and not much success I will no longer rely on them as being effective control. I've taken a liking to a newer product, Essent shield made by AEA. Around 20 a gallon you get a bunch of essential oils that really do a number on the bugs.

I over did it on my first dunk at 2 o per gallon. Plants are stressed but RA are gone. Did a dab test with a live one and the solution and it wasn't moving much after it touched the liqud. In the future I'll do more applications at around 10 ml a gal, doesn't harm anything but the critters.

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

My nematodes stunk when I opened them up. Smelled a bit anaerobic, was that normal?
Shipping in the middle of summer could of been it too

Never got a smell but I also get my nematodes from a local shop never got them shipped :/ ask you local shop if they can get them for you if you do order online overnight those beezies and use them right away or store in fridge for later use.

AJAE

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

They usually don't have much smell. After $1,500 or so on nematodes and not much success I will no longer rely on them as being effective control. I've taken a liking to a newer product, Essent shield made by AEA. Around 20 a gallon you get a bunch of essential oils that really do a number on the bugs.

I over did it on my first dunk at 2 o per gallon. Plants are stressed but RA are gone. Did a dab test with a live one and the solution and it wasn't moving much after it touched the liqud. In the future I'll do more applications at around 10 ml a gal, doesn't harm anything but the critters.

I can agree that nematodes will take a couple weeks to get a population down if the population is high there amazing "preventatives". No offense canna but are you serious $1500 bucks on nematodes and no success wouldnt you stop after 500 bucks down the drain why 1500 !! holy shit. if I threw that many nematodes at any pest their should be instant success so I can almost guarantee you that its a user error. You have to watch out what your using nematodes/predators with because some stuff will kill them. For example if your putting them in your rez then feeding them you better make damn sure you have nothing in your rez that will kill them. A simple product can kill them such as drip clean look at the label it has chems that contain an "IDE" ending which def hurt them just like hydrogen perox-IDE ! They like an organic regime the best but can be used with certain nutes such as the the flora series but they really prefer an organic based nute regime and really flourish with it. I use nematodes with 6/9 and my tap water but I also re introduce a new population every 2 weeks at max so that theres a healthy amount of of em in my medium.

I dont think ive ever spend 1500 bucks on nematodes a sponge cost no more than 10-15 bucks max and you can feed a whole lotta plants with it. like I said I think it was user error canna as many people dont use them right including my self at first lol

2 methods I rec. for usage :

**Get RO water if your really paranoid and dont have soft filtered water.**

1) Get a gal. of water cut the sponge in half leave the sponge in the gal. of plain water for 15 min let the nematodes soak in the water so that their free floating in the water. Next after watering the ladies thoroughly get a small cup and hand water these babies into your WET MEDIUM. I cannot stress this enough !!!!! if you let the medium dry out they will die as well they need constant moisture which is why they kick ass in coco because most users keep their coco wet and from drying out completely. I would pour my nematodes 15 mins before lights on too their a little light sensative from what I hear. repeat process every 2 weeks max if you feel you havent gave them the adequate environment and rather be safe than sorry right. Now you have the other half of the sponge for a follow up treatment which I would do a week after the initial one.


PS: After the sponge is done soaking I throw it in my rez always to let any stragglers have a place to chill until they eventually go into the medium as I use my nutes.

2) The second method is by letting them once again soak in the 1 gal water for 15 and then applying them throw a sprayer. Not a industrial sprayer that can blast you back on your ass aha that will most def hurt them. Just a simple spray bottle !. 15 mins before lights spray the top of your medium with the nematode mix and your set could do weekly if you wanted too

thats that people like I said before if you treat them right theyll treat you right. Be gentle with the little fellas their here to help you not hurt you. Overnight them and use right away and store in a ziplock bag in your fridge for leftovers if you have any. Wouldnt keep em stored over 2 weeks max. So as you can see theyre not that pricey a 2 month veg will cost you under 50 bucks with them and another 50 during flower. so 100 bucks max for no bugs is def worth it for me application easy as cake too.

HOPE THIS HELPS FELLOW ICERS

AJAE

 

[Granger2]

1. Being in a resevoir for a few hours will kill
Nematodes.
2. I recommend ordering them from:
http://www.buglogical.com/ or
http://www.naturescontrol.com/
3. If it's during hot weather or extreme of winter,
have them overnighted.
4. Don't let them sit on the hot or freezing porch.
Watch for the delivery.
5. Use immediately- hand water them.
6. Never buy locally. They may have been in the
fridge at the store for weeks.
7. Use overwhelming numbers. You can store half
of them in your fridge for a week or 10 days for
follow up treatment.
8. Make sure there's no insecticide residue in your
medium.
9. If you have a heavy infestation, use something
like Insecticide soap or Pyrethrum [no PBO] to
knock their numbers back. Give it 2 days, flush
well [immediately if using Soap], give it a week,
use todes.
10. Use a good root stimulator repeatedly.
Good luck. -granger

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

1. Being in a resevoir for a few hours will kill
Nematodes.
2. I recommend ordering them from:
http://www.buglogical.com/ or
http://www.naturescontrol.com/
3. If it's during hot weather or extreme of winter,
have them overnighted.
4. Don't let them sit on the hot or freezing porch.
Watch for the delivery.
5. Use immediately- hand water them.
6. Never buy locally. They may have been in the
fridge at the store for weeks.
7. Use overwhelming numbers. You can store half
of them in your fridge for a week or 10 days for
follow up treatment.
8. Make sure there's no insecticide residue in your
medium.
9. If you have a heavy infestation, use something
like Insecticide soap or Pyrethrum [no PBO] to
knock their numbers back. Give it 2 days, flush
well [immediately if using Soap], give it a week,
use todes.
10. Use a good root stimulator repeatedly.
Good luck. -granger

Thanks for clearing up the nematodes in the rez granger..I cant tell if the nematodes died off in hours but instead of throwing the sponge in the trash I just throw it in my rez after the initial application are you sure they die off that quick ?


Also were probably in different locations granger but my store always has fresh packs and are also dated from date of shipment so everyone can tell how old they are

Hey granger quick question how often do you inoculate nematodes into your medium ? are you doing treatments every 2 weeks or shorter or longer ?

 

[Granger2]

I use overwhelming numbers of todes, so I suspect they do a pretty much total wipeout of RA's. I do it about monthly or maybe a little more often in bloom.

Actually, I have stopped using them and have since gotten, so far, total control using OGBioWar Root and Foliar 4 tsp each/gal. Every 14 to 21 days. Started out applying every week to 10 days.

If your tode source is reliable on the freshness thing, you're lucky. The sponges only have a million todes. I order from the sources I mentioned, and get 10,000+ of 2 strains of todes. Good luck. -granger

 

[medicalmj]

OK I will inoculate all newly planted clones with BTi, if FGs are the cause of the problem then I should see results in a couple weeks!...

If there is no improvement then I must doubt my eyesight, and treat for root aphids!

Perhaps but one of the issues that comes with larvae is that they cause root rot, which will also need to be addressed. Sometimes in recirculating systems the root rot infects the whole system and the best thing is to scrap it.

But if you're in soil, soilless, coco, etc, your roots should recover in at least most of them.

And definitely consider nematodes as well. I use on a regular basis whether I see em or not.

 

[vinman1968]

1. Being in a resevoir for a few hours will kill
Nematodes.
2. I recommend ordering them from:
http://www.buglogical.com/ or
http://www.naturescontrol.com/
3. If it's during hot weather or extreme of winter,
have them overnighted.
4. Don't let them sit on the hot or freezing porch.
Watch for the delivery.
5. Use immediately- hand water them.
6. Never buy locally. They may have been in the
fridge at the store for weeks.
7. Use overwhelming numbers. You can store half
of them in your fridge for a week or 10 days for
follow up treatment.
8. Make sure there's no insecticide residue in your
medium.
9. If you have a heavy infestation, use something
like Insecticide soap or Pyrethrum [no PBO] to
knock their numbers back. Give it 2 days, flush
well [immediately if using Soap], give it a week,
use todes.
10. Use a good root stimulator repeatedly.
Good luck. -granger

Hey Granger2...what is the issue with using a Pyrethrin based product with PBO...I am looking for a product to use in DWC but prefer to run sterile.I am bug free but had to go with og.bio war tea and microbe lift BMC but this is gonna sound really stupid I have better yields and quality going sterile DWC.Just going sterile I lose the options for less harsh bug prevention options.Had no choice but to go the tea and BMC route and it worked great but I prefer sterile.

Thanks

 

[EclipseFour20]

PBO is not organic...that said, PBO will enhance the effectiveness of pyrethrin--allowing one to use less pyrethrin to get the same job done.

 

[Corpsey]

Granger, I bought my ten million nematodes from buglogical, overnighted brought inside for use as soon as it was delivered.
It was very hot that week, and the place is in AZ, shipping to CA. It wasn't over night, it definitely took 2 days. I remember being pissed about paying for over night.
Don't think I did anything wrong on my part.

 

[vinman1968]

PBO is not organic...that said, PBO will enhance the effectiveness of pyrethrin--allowing one to use less pyrethrin to get the same job done.

Thanks for the info man...There really hasn't been any solid info or recommendations for products for use in DWC much less application rates and such.I did try the Bayer Complete Insect Killer at 20ml per gallon with a 2 hour soak without any luck.

 

[medicalmj]

Granger, I bought my ten million nematodes from buglogical, overnighted brought inside for use as soon as it was delivered.
It was very hot that week, and the place is in AZ, shipping to CA. It wasn't over night, it definitely took 2 days. I remember being pissed about paying for over night.
Don't think I did anything wrong on my part.

If they aren't shipped w cold pack in those conditions I'd not buy from them.

My shop keeps them in fridge and has even sent me off with a cold pack that they got with their order.

I always check under a scope to make sure most are alive.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Thanks for the info man...There really hasn't been any solid info or recommendations for products for use in DWC much less application rates and such.I did try the Bayer Complete Insect Killer at 20ml per gallon with a 2 hour soak without any luck.

I realize this thread is large, argumentative and contains good and bad solutions--some ignoring "half-life". Many years ago, I developed an alternative to Imid (seems that many RAs have developed pesticide resistance...rendering Imid ineffective) it is 100% effective in eradicating the little bastards...but it is not organic (the chems/synthetics have a super short half-life).

Some people experienced a slight leaf burn with the consensus of many on this thread--the burn is probably related to the grow medium pH and lessor amounts of Orthene might be the answer. Sorry, I don't have Root Aphids anymore--so I can not test that theory or definitively say why some people got leaf burn....or why others did not. I do know this...if you attempted several synthetic/chem pesticides already, your soil pH is probably loaded up and out of whack.

So here is a repost of the procedure I developed that eradicates Root Aphids 100%.

Another update: The 2/3 rate of my Original Orthene+Riptide still works. After trying everything "OMRI listed", a local 30+ light "organic" grower used my "chem recipe" to eradicate Root Aphids...and "would do it again" (his words).

What sold him was the minimal effect acephate had on the microherd and its tiny half-life--

"A Hanford loamy sand, a Domino silt loam, and an Altamont clay loam were treated separately with three repeated applications (20 ppm) of the organophosphate insecticides, acephate (O,S-dimethyl acetylphosphoramidothioate) and Monitor (O,S-dimethyl phosphoramidothioate) over a 50-day time span. Population levels of actinomycetes, bacteria, and fungi were not substantially affected by the addition of either pesticide. Neither could a marked effect be shown upon ammonification, nitrification, sulfur oxidation, or respiration rates. Replica plating failed to isolate bacteria from soils that were adversely affected by either pesticide. It is concluded that neither acephate nor Monitor had any adverse effect upon soil microorganisms."

Source: https://www.agronomy.org/publications/jeq/abstracts/3/4/JEQ0030040327?access=0&view=pdf

Acephate has a soil half-life 0.5 to 3 days and is not a systemic...unlike Imid, with a "soil half-life" of 26.5-229 days or a "hydro half-life" of 997 days.

See report....http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/fatememo/acephate.pdf

Eclipse's Revised Orthene + Riptide routine (very effective for soil mediums--mixed results for hydro mediums):

1 gallon water
2.29 grams Orthene (97.4% Acephate)...1 gram = 1 ml, more or less.
2.5 ml Riptide (5% pyrethrin, 25% PBO)

1. Let the grow medium dry out first, do not use if grow medium is wet/super moist.
2. Dunk for 20-30 minutes (bottom first, let the container sink and then submerge it such that the container lip/grow medium is submerged by 1".
3. Drain, no flushing, no rinsing, no nutes.
4. Let grow medium dry out a bit before first feeding...first feeding brews consisting of minerals, nutrients or bacteria seem to be more beneficial than concoctions of "everything". DO NOT ADD ZYMES TO THE FIRST FEEDING; it seems there is an increase in "plant lock-up" (some plant fatality) if zymes are introduced 10-14 days following many pesticide dunks.
5. Foliar spray with a root growth booster for a few days, 1-2x daily.

My favorite rooting spray (for clones, seedlings, fussy pussies, etc) is:
1 gallon water
7.5 ml Rhizotonic
0.25 grams Urea

Adding Urea to a foliar spray has shown to increase plant's uptake of the spray's active ingredient (it takes between 30 minutes and 2 hours before 50% of Urea's nitrogen is absorbed into the plant's tissue).

Final thoughts--those big 18 gallon party buckets (for ice & beer bottles) make great dunking containers...a few of em can certainly speed up the dunking time for those with a "goodly number" of 5 gallon sized growing containers (and cheap too!) If the grow medium is loaded with other poisons/pesticides from prior attempts, I would flush well and let the grow medium dry out...before attempting my Orthene + Riptide cocktail (think soup, salt...and too many chefs). Drier the grow medium before dunking--the better (zero fatalities), wet grow medium seems to be no bueno! No enzymes for at least 2 weeks...as "plant lock up" seems to be the common result.

Feel free to PM any questions...btw, still Root Aphid FREE! (knocks on wood)

Cheers!

Remember, some people tell me they had ZERO problems...worked perfectly, while a few had leaf burn and I know of one person that had plant wilt...but in all cases--the Root Aphids were annihilated 100% with my routine.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

much respect eclipse 420 but i wouldnt call it a slight burn. i lost 1/3 of my plats and the reamaining took weeks to recover.that said yes it was me that realized the alkaline ingredients in soil was likely the culprit. if you read the msds sheet it clearly stated that alkaline substances cause an off gassing of nitrogen plus some other stuff. i cant remmeber exactly bt in any case i noticed my plants looked severely nitrogen burned. im guessing the rockwool and gypsum in the soil was what made it react. my root tiot plugs didnt fair so bad if at all. it was the rockwool dunked and the soil drenched plants that werre so fucked up. i never revisited it to see if a lower amopnt was less harful. i eventually did it again with tsimilar results. i know i know. lol i also reinfected s somehow. no surprise there. i did this and imid plus contact killer over and over round after round of veg plants til i stopped seeing them. i no longer use either. i use kontos in veg and its all good on the ra front now. havent seen an ra in many many months. i saw them occasionally for 2 or 3 rounds and then nothing. kontos is the shit.

I realize this thread is large, argumentative and contains good and bad solutions--some ignoring "half-life". Many years ago, I developed an alternative to Imid (seems that many RAs have developed pesticide resistance...rendering Imid ineffective) it is 100% effective in eradicating the little bastards...but it is not organic (the chems/synthetics have a super short half-life).

Some people experienced a slight leaf burn; he consensus of many on this thread is--the burn is probably related to the grow medium pH and lessor amounts of Orthene might be the answer. Sorry, I don't have Root Aphids anymore--so I can not test that theory or definitively say why some people got leaf burn....or why others did not. I do know this...if you attempted several synthetic/chem pesticides already, your soil pH is probably loaded up and out of whack.

So here is a repost of the procedure I developed that eradicates Root Aphids 100%.



Remember, some people tell me they had ZERO problems...worked perfectly, while a few had leaf burn and I know of one person that had plant wilt...but in all cases--the Root Aphids were annihilated 100% with my routine.

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

Granger, I bought my ten million nematodes from buglogical, overnighted brought inside for use as soon as it was delivered.
It was very hot that week, and the place is in AZ, shipping to CA. It wasn't over night, it definitely took 2 days. I remember being pissed about paying for over night.
Don't think I did anything wrong on my part.

This is why I dont purchase online too often lol. Corpse did you check your local garden stores ? Sometimes orders will get messed up even from the most legit sources I use evergreen and they are pretty legit if my local head shops are out but the ones Granger mentioned have worked for him so maybe they just slipped up this time it happens. Ask your local shops if they put nematodes in their beneficial teas some do like I mentioned before . Give em a call and let em know what happened im sure they'll work with you.

AJAE

 

[EclipseFour20]

Str8edge, sorry about the burn...and the 1/3 loss. Unfortunately everyone's environment is not the same...we might say one lesson learned is--test any procedure on a few plants before doing the rest.

I have heard great things about Kontos--just have zero experience with it...and no offense to anyone, hope I don't have the occasion to try either....(I don't want RAs again!).