What's the "best" humic acid supplement?

[OptionDork]

So what's the advantage of a non-chelated humic acid product over one that's already chelated, assuming we're talking about "best" product? Not necessarily the most affordable, but it keeps you from playing a guessing game in regards to available mineral content in your soil.

Are you referring to a whole humate product like HumaCarb or something like an extract?

Honestly guys my research into humic/fulvic acids is about 4 years old and never kept up.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] How about this HA product? Thoughts & opinions? It sure looks cool when you sprinkle a little in a clear glass of water as it slowly disperses downward.[/FONT]

Kind of weird they have a slew of test results except one for humic acid content. On the A & L test report there's a remark stating 'Humic Acid (A&L) = 95%' yet nothing noted above under each compound/element/mineral. If potash % as K20 is 18.96 and N at 1.28 % how can the product be 95% humic acid? Very rusty yet guessing the K comes from potassium hydroxide as most use the acid/alkaline extraction method so companies are actually producing humic salts.

I did get a copy of an A&L report for humic acid content of HumaCarb yet have lost track of it. This is a specific report which shows the actual %. If I'm remembering correctly there are 2 methods of analysis for humic acid. One will provide a much higher result than the other. One will include things like waxes and stuff which inflate the value of humic acid.

Another thing is when I was working on my project I did talk to A&L about testing for fulvic acid and they said there is no legitimate test and if I could find a good method they'd like to have it. So Diamond Grow claims their product contains fulvic acid (how much?) yet A&L can't even test for it?

Going back to the typical acid/alkaline extraction method I've been told it denatures humic acid. Are you buying humic acid or humic salts? Changes in pH actually change the molecular structure of humic acid like it's almost alive.

Supposedly A&L said HumaCarb had the highest concentration of humic acid they've ever seen.

 

[OptionDork]

and many of his products can be mimicked, not all but some.

That's true of virtually ANY agriculture product. Virtually none are truly exclusive and proprietary. Sea-Crop is one of the few I can think of. For the most part product manufacturers are simply buying bulk ingredients from commodity type producers and using it in formulas and putting out under their brand.

 

[OptionDork]

This is some of what I'm talking about regarding humic acid testing and just a start. Critical Comparison of Humic Acid Test Methods:

Abstract: The colorimetric method and the California Department of Food and Agriculture (CDFA) method of evaluating the humic acid content of five raw humate ores and three humate products were compared to the classical technique of extraction in a dilute base followed by precipitation of humic acid by extract acidification and ash removal by hydrochloric/hydrofluoric acid (HCl/HF) wash. Compared to the classical procedure, the colorimetric and CDFA methods overestimated the humic acid content of the eight samples by 120% and 52%, respectively. Therefore, these procedures do not produce a reliably accurate value for the humic acid contents of humates and products produced using materials extracted from them.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00103620903111251?journalCode=lcss20#preview

 

[backyardbogfan]

I'm using extreme tea and fart water.

 

[Carbon.Chains]

fart water.

Hehe that s what my loved one calls my FPEs...
"-Babe would you mind opening the fermented extract bottle? Forgot to do it and I don t want it explode all over the cupboard
-I m not touching the fartwater!"

 

[squatcrayon]

Most of this material below is from a book by R. Stevenson 1982 - Humus Chemistry.. This particular book is basically the bible that mostly all companies (including BioAg and others) cite from in regards to images and material that is then dispersed out.

"Humic substances (HS) are complex and heterogeneous mixtures of poly-dispersed materials formed in soils, sediments, and natural waters by biochemical and chemical reactions during the decay and transformation of plant and microbial remains (a process called humification) .

Humic material, in its stable form, is not soluble in water. This allows it to exist in nature without being washed away through aqueous erosion (rivers and rain). This non-soluble HS has a tightly packed chemical profile that keeps the majority of the ‘sticky’ reactive groups hidden within the structure. In order to create highly active forms of humic material, non-soluble humus must be exposed to bases and acids to create water soluble humic salts (humic and fulvic salts). The charged molecules (NH3+, P+, K+, etc.) bind to the humus material and force it to unwind – thus exposing its internal reactive groups that make the salts not only soluble in water but also increases specific reactivity of the molecules."

Also people keep harping on the concentration of humic acids available in the market as a measure of a good product. I feel the % concentration of humic acids is actually not a very good measure of the quality of the product. As we do not (all industry and academia will agree) have a consistently defined chemical structure of humic substances, no one can with certainty say what actually in humic substance makes them valuable for use in plant growth. I rather find out what actual functional groups are present in the molecule which are known to help improve plant growth and their concentrations. This would be a better measure of the effectiveness or activeness of the product, IMO.

 

[OptionDork]

Also people keep harping on the concentration of humic acids available in the market as a measure of a good product. I feel the % concentration of humic acids is actually not a very good measure of the quality of the product. As we do not (all industry and academia will agree) have a consistently defined chemical structure of humic substances, no one can with certainty say what actually in humic substance makes them valuable for use in plant growth. I rather find out what actual functional groups are present in the molecule which are known to help improve plant growth and their concentrations. This would be a better measure of the effectiveness or activeness of the product, IMO.

Well I think that's some pretty good stuff FWIW. Humic acids are a class of compounds. Fulvic acids are a subclass of humic acids. I'll add, IMO, regarding functional groups that in great part it has to do with how the base material is processed to create the resultant extract/concentrate...denaturing. There still is debate regarding acceptable test methods to determine humic/fulvic acid content. A claim of 95% humic acid is BS IMO. Totally preposterous in fact.

 

[Moondawg415]

95% pure black humic acid that absolutely rocks!

95% pure black humic acid that absolutely rocks!

Are any of the humic acid supplements worth buying? I don't have a finished compost heap at the moment, and am wondering what the scoop is.

I checked all the shops 15% highest being 30% purity of liquid humic acid, but nothing that I have ever used works likes this stuff. Started using it this year and started late, May25th. I found this stuff from a greens keeper. Anyways, I started slow in soil outside. In the past always used RO water because tap water is 800 ppm. They were sprouts, some seed, and in 2 month 5 feet tall with really bad sun. Shocked?

The strange thing is that I assumed RO was working lost my tester but really don't need it because my ladies tell me what they want. Well today I find out my membrane was shot tap water has been 800ppm sense day 1 I assume, and I was adding nutrients plus the humic to each feeding weekly sense day1 for a total of 1200ppm, they should b dead, right? The humic acid at this purity is allowing nutrient uptake and no root block. 1st light trading humic acid

 

[MJtheIndicator]

I'm don't know this from experience...

I'm don't know this from experience...

No farmer under real market conditions would pay what the hydro-store customers pay. It's a result of the huge profit margins illegal weed brings. These guys will not be able to survive in a $50/oz free world. Their business model is one where input costs don't matter.

In fact commercial farmers buy in bulk at prices which would make the common hydro farmer cringe, not to mention the small timer's anxiety at never getting to play in the major leagues or get their hands on top quality micro-nutrients.

As for the OP, General Hydroponics' Diamond Nectar was mentioned, but there is also their Diamond Black 100% pure Leonardite.

 

[xmobotx]

clue us in on "the major leagues" & "top quality micro-nutrients" ~are you saying commercial farmers would buy GenHydro stuff in bulk?

 

[MJtheIndicator]

I'm don't know this from experience…

I'm don't know this from experience…

clue us in on "the major leagues" & "top quality micro-nutrients" ~are you saying commercial farmers would buy GenHydro stuff in bulk?

In 2013 The Scotts Miracle-Gro Company reported net sales of $2.82 billion and to think all that from what was once a humble seed company. I now and forever will wish General Hydroponics all the luck in the world.

Wholesale is a complicated puzzle.

Micro Master Complexed Boron 10.0% $4,791.90 (250 gallon mini-bulk)
Micro Master Chelated Calcium 3.0% $2,919.40 (250 gallon mini-bulk [cage tote])
Micro Master Chelated Copper 7.5% $10,060.05 (250 gallon mini-bulk [cage tote])
Micro Master Chelated Manganese 6.0% $5,656.40 (250 gallon mini-bulk [cage tote])
Micro Master Chelated Zinc 9.0% $5,514.30 (250 gallon mini-bulk [cage tote])

If you have the inkling and motivation or capital, the Micronutrient Manufacturers Association (MMA) active voting membership dues are $2,000 per year. Keeping in mind members are manufacturers and/or formulators of micronutrients (as defined by the Wester Fertilizer Handbook, ninth edition).

 

[powhound420]

There's totally a need to flush oganics

 

[xmobotx]

lol

 

[MJtheIndicator]

Which of the hallowed products are devoid of ash and heavy metals, lead, arsenic or mercury?

 

[Moondawg007]

95% Pure Black Humic Acid

95% Pure Black Humic Acid

I have tried them all which I have been using but really not seeing the results as so many say, until recently. 8%, 12%, 50% lignite Humic acid does nothing in comparison to this 95% pure Humic acid I got my hands on from this Bee Shield company of all places. 1st Light Trading Humic acid is outstanding. You can actually see your girls loving this stuff. Normally don't give props, but there is a first for everything.

 

[Moondawg007]

I have tried them all which I have been using but really not seeing the results as so many say, until recently. 8%, 12%, 50% lignite Humic acid does nothing in comparison to this 95% pure Humic acid I got my hands on from this Bee Shield company of all places. 1st Light Trading Humic acid is outstanding. You can actually see your girls loving this stuff. Normally don't give props, but there is a first for everything.

 

[Moondawg007]

95% Pure Humic Acid! It works

95% Pure Humic Acid! It works

Are any of the humic acid supplements worth buying? I don't have a finished compost heap at the moment, and am wondering what the scoop is.

10-05-2014, 09:28 PM #96
Moondawg007
Newbie

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2

I have tried them all which I have been using but really not seeing the results as so many say, until recently. 8%, 12%, 50% lignite Humic acid does nothing in comparison to this 95% pure Humic acid I got my hands on from this Bee Shield company of all places. 1st Light Trading Humic acid is outstanding. You can actually see your girls loving this stuff. Normally don't give props, but there is a first for everything.
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[ct guy2]

Moondawg,

You have 4 posts and all of them have been about your product. Yet you've added nothing in regards to actual research or data on why it's the best. Am I just to take your word for it?

I already listed why I like Tera Vita, both as an affordable option at 10/lb for 85% humic acid by content. At 1/8th of a tsp. per gallon I don't see a more affordable option on the market.

For the highest quality product, I would think that the Tera Vita LC-10+7 or BioAg TM7 would be the best. These two products are both chelated humic acids, the only two I'm aware of on the market. And last time I talked to Tera Vita they were going to be offering liquid chelates of whatever mineral you wanted, like if your soil test required more manganese but not iron, you could get that custom made.

They work with actual farmers and aren't putting their products on hydro shop shelves. That's why I respect these two companies. And they both have the research and data to support what they're doing.

 

[MJtheIndicator]

True ct guy2, this copy/paste spam appears on grasscity as well. I do feel the vita and bioag have outstanding humic products, but I personally would separate micronutrient products from the humic treatment to facilitate foliar nutrition. And not to nitpick on those two brands, but I would prefer Magnesium over Cobalt in the mix.

 

[squatcrayon]

clue us in on "the major leagues" & "top quality micro-nutrients" ~are you saying commercial farmers would buy GenHydro stuff in bulk?

You can buy micro-nutrients from CPS, Simplot or Helena Chemicals for a few dollars per gallon

Humics are also available for really cheap at $7/G or something as well if you are willing to purchase totes of them.