Med-Man Tables By Krunchbubble...

[DunHav`nFun]

^^^^^^^^This guy..........Krunch I`ve stayed outta this till now cuz I knew by simple deductive reasoning your grower skills would shine through and kick in.....sooner or later.....now....

Regardless of med-man or ANYONE having no problems with 3-1K`s/84+/- watts per sq ft even 2' away from canopy height , you shoulda never attempted a flat grow with the only strain known to God and man as the fastest growing/stretching after flip like Blue Dream , or even a stretchy og strain like fire without a handheld infrared thermometer and digital light meter.....and then....

You yourself said moving/re-adjusting the a/c was the culprit , cuz it was...but you couldn`t keep up with stretch either and let em grow right into the fire.....and since stretch is scientifically proven to be 40% of the flower cycle , I hope they`ll cease vertical growth soon and back up into full swellage.....now....

Flood and drain SOG setups are more suited to indica dominant hybrids that stretch far less and can be easier controlled in the trellis while weaving/spreading/adjusting canopy for even ness beneath the light source during stretch and you know this , but I`m putting this out there for the folks reading so they`ll know that plants that finish 5' tall should grow elsewhere in other more suited setups.....sure...

You can run em like you`re doin IF you can stay on top of the vertical growth after pullin the trigger and flippin em with lollipoppin the fuck outta the bottoms and pullin em back and under the screens to provide an even canopy by end of stretch , but at what cost yield wise and time consumption wise workin the pain in the ass sativa dominant mutherfuckers till they cease stretch and start swellage.....that said....

With my bare bulb setups I was always able to prevent light bleaching and heat scorching with small muffin fans underneath each bulb on it`s lowest setting to assist natural heat convection while being sucked outta the room with air exchange twice per minute , as well as having on numerous occasions different strains I was dialing to see how far they`d stretch end up as close as 6" to the light source till end of cycle....but....

Horizontal fixtures store heat like a mofo and that`s what was happening to your plants cuz you couldn`t raise the light source during stretch to keep it far enough away from the plants without fryin their ass....period.....now...

What size dehuey have yas been emptyin twice a day , cuz it sounds to me like RH was in acceptable ranges inside the grow area , but the fuckin oven yas had cookin the tops of the tables was burnin it off and doin away with it , and the plants couldn`t transpire fast enough ta neutralize the effects of the mega light and heat bein blasted at their ass, so in part catman had a good point that in fact was a problem.....anyways....

Once stretch is completely over and you`ve cleaned out underneath and thinned the herd , yas can look at raisin the wattage cuz nothing makes em swell bigger at night and pump more resin during lights on till end of cycle like mega-wattage as long as the light source is far enough away ya heard ?....remember 1 things boys and girls.....

Environment first and foremost , cuz it don`t matter how much light or juice yas shove up their ass if all other ducks ain`t in a row....regardless....

I`ve murdered 1000`s in my day , and you ain`t done either , but learning from it`s paramount in not repeatin the same bullshit over again....so...

Just wanted ta stop in and show respect for figurin shit out and rollin wit da punches my buddy.....Keep strokin and....

Peace....DHF........

 

[theother]

^^^^^^^^This guy..........Krunch I`ve stayed outta this till now cuz I knew by simple deductive reasoning your grower skills would shine through and kick in.....sooner or later.....now....

Regardless of med-man or ANYONE having no problems with 3-1K`s/84+/- watts per sq ft even 2' away from canopy height , you shoulda never attempted a flat grow with the only strain known to God and man as the fastest growing/stretching after flip like Blue Dream , or even a stretchy og strain like fire without a handheld infrared thermometer and digital light meter.....and then....

You yourself said moving/re-adjusting the a/c was the culprit , cuz it was...but you couldn`t keep up with stretch either and let em grow right into the fire.....and since stretch is scientifically proven to be 40% of the flower cycle , I hope they`ll cease vertical growth soon and back up into full swellage.....now....

Flood and drain SOG setups are more suited to indica dominant hybrids that stretch far less and can be easier controlled in the trellis while weaving/spreading/adjusting canopy for even ness beneath the light source during stretch and you know this , but I`m putting this out there for the folks reading so they`ll know that plants that finish 5' tall should grow elsewhere in other more suited setups.....sure...

You can run em like you`re doin IF you can stay on top of the vertical growth after pullin the trigger and flippin em with lollipoppin the fuck outta the bottoms and pullin em back and under the screens to provide an even canopy by end of stretch , but at what cost yield wise and time consumption wise workin the pain in the ass sativa dominant mutherfuckers till they cease stretch and start swellage.....that said....

With my bare bulb setups I was always able to prevent light bleaching and heat scorching with small muffin fans underneath each bulb on it`s lowest setting to assist natural heat convection while being sucked outta the room with air exchange twice per minute , as well as having on numerous occasions different strains I was dialing to see how far they`d stretch end up as close as 6" to the light source till end of cycle....but....

Horizontal fixtures store heat like a mofo and that`s what was happening to your plants cuz you couldn`t raise the light source during stretch to keep it far enough away from the plants without fryin their ass....period.....now...

What size dehuey have yas been emptyin twice a day , cuz it sounds to me like RH was in acceptable ranges inside the grow area , but the fuckin oven yas had cookin the tops of the tables was burnin it off and doin away with it , and the plants couldn`t transpire fast enough ta neutralize the effects of the mega light and heat bein blasted at their ass, so in part catman had a good point that in fact was a problem.....anyways....

Once stretch is completely over and you`ve cleaned out underneath and thinned the herd , yas can look at raisin the wattage cuz nothing makes em swell bigger at night and pump more resin during lights on till end of cycle like mega-wattage as long as the light source is far enough away ya heard ?....remember 1 things boys and girls.....

Environment first and foremost , cuz it don`t matter how much light or juice yas shove up their ass if all other ducks ain`t in a row....regardless....

I`ve murdered 1000`s in my day , and you ain`t done either , but learning from it`s paramount in not repeatin the same bullshit over again....so...

Just wanted ta stop in and show respect for figurin shit out and rollin wit da punches my buddy.....Keep strokin and....

Peace....DHF........

I love this guy!! Gotta agree, the stretchy sat dome where probably a mistake in hindsight. Dhf is always good for telling you the hard stuff lol.

My 2c, fwiw, is that you definitely need to flip smaller, like maybe at 6-8 inches and just let them blow up and do there thing. I suspect they would fill out those trays just fine,

 

[catman]

I use a dehumidifier and empty twice a day. If I dont, mold will grow on the walls. Happened before I have a dehumidifier. Even now and then, i will see a very small patch and hit it with 35% peroxide to kill it....

A higher humidity would be great, but with no exhaust I really cant...

Ahh... Have you been measuring the RH? Are the dehumidifiers operated by a controller?

I had a great grow going once in which I decided to "clear the air" in a room by just having my AC run as an exhaust. I foolishly brought in air with a RH of about 15%. My plants looked like yours and DrFever's right after. I had them in their sweet spot just before and I changed nothing else.

I think DHF is right that this problem would have been prevented if your lights were higher, but at the same time your growth would not have been as optimal. The only way you can keep up such growth from so much light/heat is with high humidity. That's a challenge near the lights and fixtures for sure. Mixing the air around helps of course.

Most people are aware that these sort of problems happen less in cooler temperatures and that's true because of how much easier it is manage the relative humidity... it's easier, but the growth isn't as good.

Pushing the limits is like walking a tight rope. It's easy to fall off, but aint' it worth the rush sometimes? If it's not worth the risk for you, but you still crave the rush from thriving plants... yas best build a room like DHF preaches and damn near to the T

 

[theother]

Thank You, I REALLY appreciate the help!!!

I use a dehumidifier and empty twice a day. If I dont, mold will grow on the walls. Happened before I have a dehumidifier. Even now and then, i will see a very small patch and hit it with 35% peroxide to kill it....

A higher humidity would be great, but with no exhaust I really cant...

Can't promise it will work, but how about a uvc lamp in a recirculating hepa filter. If the problem is the black mold on the walls I believe this would help. I have not added the uvc yet, and I didn't have a mold problem, but just seeing the difference in air quality I think if I did have one it would have helped.

 

[krunchbubble]

^^^^^^^^This guy..........Krunch I`ve stayed outta this till now cuz I knew by simple deductive reasoning your grower skills would shine through and kick in.....sooner or later.....now....

Regardless of med-man or ANYONE having no problems with 3-1K`s/84+/- watts per sq ft even 2' away from canopy height , you shoulda never attempted a flat grow with the only strain known to God and man as the fastest growing/stretching after flip like Blue Dream , or even a stretchy og strain like fire without a handheld infrared thermometer and digital light meter.....and then....

You yourself said moving/re-adjusting the a/c was the culprit , cuz it was...but you couldn`t keep up with stretch either and let em grow right into the fire.....and since stretch is scientifically proven to be 40% of the flower cycle , I hope they`ll cease vertical growth soon and back up into full swellage.....now....

Flood and drain SOG setups are more suited to indica dominant hybrids that stretch far less and can be easier controlled in the trellis while weaving/spreading/adjusting canopy for even ness beneath the light source during stretch and you know this , but I`m putting this out there for the folks reading so they`ll know that plants that finish 5' tall should grow elsewhere in other more suited setups.....sure...

You can run em like you`re doin IF you can stay on top of the vertical growth after pullin the trigger and flippin em with lollipoppin the fuck outta the bottoms and pullin em back and under the screens to provide an even canopy by end of stretch , but at what cost yield wise and time consumption wise workin the pain in the ass sativa dominant mutherfuckers till they cease stretch and start swellage.....that said....

With my bare bulb setups I was always able to prevent light bleaching and heat scorching with small muffin fans underneath each bulb on it`s lowest setting to assist natural heat convection while being sucked outta the room with air exchange twice per minute , as well as having on numerous occasions different strains I was dialing to see how far they`d stretch end up as close as 6" to the light source till end of cycle....but....

Horizontal fixtures store heat like a mofo and that`s what was happening to your plants cuz you couldn`t raise the light source during stretch to keep it far enough away from the plants without fryin their ass....period.....now...

What size dehuey have yas been emptyin twice a day , cuz it sounds to me like RH was in acceptable ranges inside the grow area , but the fuckin oven yas had cookin the tops of the tables was burnin it off and doin away with it , and the plants couldn`t transpire fast enough ta neutralize the effects of the mega light and heat bein blasted at their ass, so in part catman had a good point that in fact was a problem.....anyways....

Once stretch is completely over and you`ve cleaned out underneath and thinned the herd , yas can look at raisin the wattage cuz nothing makes em swell bigger at night and pump more resin during lights on till end of cycle like mega-wattage as long as the light source is far enough away ya heard ?....remember 1 things boys and girls.....

Environment first and foremost , cuz it don`t matter how much light or juice yas shove up their ass if all other ducks ain`t in a row....regardless....

I`ve murdered 1000`s in my day , and you ain`t done either , but learning from it`s paramount in not repeatin the same bullshit over again....so...

Just wanted ta stop in and show respect for figurin shit out and rollin wit da punches my buddy.....Keep strokin and....

Peace....DHF........

THIS guy!!! Love ya DHF....

Everything you said makes perfect sense. And based on what you said and reminded me, second round is going to be insane....

Thanks for the input, Appreciate it man...

 

[ghostmade]

this shit is still boss.lol its good to know even the growfessional makes mistakes.
anyways,sucks about the time lost,but at least some of us learned something.
patiently waiting for round 2 .be safe

 

[woolybear]

simplest answer is usually the correct one... hi DHF

 

[RetroGrow]

I am sorry about your problems. We all have them.
I would love to see a side by side with a table using this method, vs a stacked vertical grow with plants on the floor, or with an inverted bucket under them to raise 10-12 inches off the floor. No hoods=less heat and more overhead space, and vastly more cubic footage. No lollypopping necessary, or only a tiny bit for the very bottom buds just to make trimming easier. No chance of burning the tops, and big, fat buds top to bottom. Easier to trim. No doubt SOG is a superior method with hoods and tables. I think, however, that vertical bare bulbs has changed that dynamic. I believe that a vert grow with a longer veg time and stacking bulbs as plants get taller will provide a greater yield. Of course, bare bulbs require a fan on the floor blowing up at the bulbs, keeping the plants cool. As DHF mentioned, I have had bare bulbs 6 inches from plants with no burning, and they are getting much more light. I prefer 1000 watts and 600 watts at the bottom of a two bulb stack.
I would love to see a side by side doing that, but I won't be doing it, as I am so happy with vert/bare bulbs for so many reasons, including much cheaper (no hoods), easier to cool, bigger buds, top to bottom (easier to trim) and no worries about stretch, room height or yield.
So, if you would kindly do a side by side, I am betting on vert...
In no way should this be misconstrued as criticism. It is not. I am just curious how the comparison would do, and as I said, my money's on bare bulbs, plants on floor, and fans blowing upwards. More light, less hassle, taller plants, no popcorn, bigger yields, less trimming.
Just my opinion. Somebody prove me wrong, and I'll change. Having said that, strain is also a big factor here. If you're growing Sour Bubble or some short, low yielding, Indica dominant strains, maybe that method is superior. For Sats or sat dom hybrids, I would definitely go vert. Why waste all that cubic footage in a room?

 

[Miraculous Meds]

I am sorry about your problems. We all have them.
I would love to see a side by side with a table using this method, vs a stacked vertical grow with plants on the floor, or with an inverted bucket under them to raise 10-12 inches off the floor. No hoods=less heat and more overhead space, and vastly more cubic footage. No lollypopping necessary, or only a tiny bit for the very bottom buds just to make trimming easier. No chance of burning the tops, and big, fat buds top to bottom. Easier to trim. No doubt SOG is a superior method with hoods and tables. I think, however, that vertical bare bulbs has changed that dynamic. I believe that a vert grow with a longer veg time and stacking bulbs as plants get taller will provide a greater yield. Of course, bare bulbs require a fan on the floor blowing up at the bulbs, keeping the plants cool. As DHF mentioned, I have had bare bulbs 6 inches from plants with no burning, and they are getting much more light. I prefer 1000 watts and 600 watts at the bottom of a two bulb stack.
I would love to see a side by side doing that, but I won't be doing it, as I am so happy with vert/bare bulbs for so many reasons, including much cheaper (no hoods), easier to cool, bigger buds, top to bottom (easier to trim) and no worries about stretch, room height or yield.
So, if you would kindly do a side by side, I am betting on vert...
In no way should this be misconstrued as criticism. It is not. I am just curious how the comparison would do, and as I said, my money's on bare bulbs, plants on floor, and fans blowing upwards. More light, less hassle, taller plants, no popcorn, bigger yields, less trimming.
Just my opinion. Somebody prove me wrong, and I'll change. Having said that, strain is also a big factor here. If you're growing Sour Bubble or some short, low yielding, Indica dominant strains, maybe that method is superior. For Sats or sat dom hybrids, I would definitely go vert. Why waste all that cubic footage in a room?

retro,

I agree with ur analysis on vert bare bulbs. But I don't understand why u would ask KB to do it. If ur interested u should do it, not challenge somebody else while u say u aren't going to.

I would guess though that these tables would keep up pretty well.

 

[Ph-patrol]

Meds tables are defiantly a breeders design. Grow many individual plant at waste height.
One person could care for many plants because of the ease.

I have always admired.

 

[DunHav`nFun]

Not a doubt in my mind that this system/setup won`t produce , it`s just not tailored for stretchy ass sativa-dominant varieties , but as theother stated , If Krunch had`ve flipped blue dream fully rooted cuts with no veg time , we wouldn`t have witnessed this fiasco and Krunch would be on his way to a decent return a WHOLE lot faster.....now....

That`s the key to yield with flat grows or any setup for that matter , is how long to veg or NOT before pullin the trigger and flippin into stretch where only GOD knows where they`ll end up by the time they STOP vertical growth and back up into full swellage to create that perfect canopy in even ness as well as depth for the lights to penetrate either down or sideways into and make use of all the plant without creating bunch flarfy ass popcorn bullshit underneath or behind with vert setups.....IOW......

If you KNOW your strain , and you KNOW where it`ll end up after flip , then ultimately you could run em to X days veg , pull the trigger , and NEVER haveta lollipop underneath OR behind and EVERYTHING on the vine would be harvestable viable nuggage with as full a canopy as possible for optimum return on investment, and ........

THAT`s the name of the game...but no fuckin body does it , and that`s where lollipoppin originated from by letting vertical growth get outta hand and HAVING to get rid of the shit underneath where the above plant matter can be all it can be and yield accordingly......anyways....

Good luck Krunch , hope everything falls into place for yas....didn`t mean ta clog the thread , just thought it pertinent for all the folks readin cuz I know you already know this , you just didn`t realize how fast shit takes off in a fast hydro setup so......We live , we learn.....hopefully.......

Peace....DHF........

 

[ThePizzaMan]

I cant believe I missed this!

subbed!

TpM

 

[DrFever]

^^^^^^^^This guy..........Krunch I`ve stayed outta this till now cuz I knew by simple deductive reasoning your grower skills would shine through and kick in.....sooner or later.....now....

Regardless of med-man or ANYONE having no problems with 3-1K`s/84+/- watts per sq ft even 2' away from canopy height , you shoulda never attempted a flat grow with the only strain known to God and man as the fastest growing/stretching after flip like Blue Dream , or even a stretchy og strain like fire without a handheld infrared thermometer and digital light meter.....and then....

You yourself said moving/re-adjusting the a/c was the culprit , cuz it was...but you couldn`t keep up with stretch either and let em grow right into the fire.....and since stretch is scientifically proven to be 40% of the flower cycle , I hope they`ll cease vertical growth soon and back up into full swellage.....now....

Flood and drain SOG setups are more suited to indica dominant hybrids that stretch far less and can be easier controlled in the trellis while weaving/spreading/adjusting canopy for even ness beneath the light source during stretch and you know this , but I`m putting this out there for the folks reading so they`ll know that plants that finish 5' tall should grow elsewhere in other more suited setups.....sure...

You can run em like you`re doin IF you can stay on top of the vertical growth after pullin the trigger and flippin em with lollipoppin the fuck outta the bottoms and pullin em back and under the screens to provide an even canopy by end of stretch , but at what cost yield wise and time consumption wise workin the pain in the ass sativa dominant mutherfuckers till they cease stretch and start swellage.....that said....

With my bare bulb setups I was always able to prevent light bleaching and heat scorching with small muffin fans underneath each bulb on it`s lowest setting to assist natural heat convection while being sucked outta the room with air exchange twice per minute , as well as having on numerous occasions different strains I was dialing to see how far they`d stretch end up as close as 6" to the light source till end of cycle....but....

Horizontal fixtures store heat like a mofo and that`s what was happening to your plants cuz you couldn`t raise the light source during stretch to keep it far enough away from the plants without fryin their ass....period.....now...

What size dehuey have yas been emptyin twice a day , cuz it sounds to me like RH was in acceptable ranges inside the grow area , but the fuckin oven yas had cookin the tops of the tables was burnin it off and doin away with it , and the plants couldn`t transpire fast enough ta neutralize the effects of the mega light and heat bein blasted at their ass, so in part catman had a good point that in fact was a problem.....anyways....

Once stretch is completely over and you`ve cleaned out underneath and thinned the herd , yas can look at raisin the wattage cuz nothing makes em swell bigger at night and pump more resin during lights on till end of cycle like mega-wattage as long as the light source is far enough away ya heard ?....remember 1 things boys and girls.....

Environment first and foremost , cuz it don`t matter how much light or juice yas shove up their ass if all other ducks ain`t in a row....regardless....

I`ve murdered 1000`s in my day , and you ain`t done either , but learning from it`s paramount in not repeatin the same bullshit over again....so...

Just wanted ta stop in and show respect for figurin shit out and rollin wit da punches my buddy.....Keep strokin and....

Peace....DHF........

Regardless of med-man or ANYONE having no problems with 3-1K`s/84+/- watts per sq ft even 2' away from canopy height , you shoulda never attempted a flat grow with the only strain known to God and man as the fastest growing/stretching after flip like Blue Dream , or even a stretchy og strain like fire without a handheld infrared thermometer and digital light meter
For a person to my understanding that has never done a flat grow Interesting ??? Cause you were taught so you say growing Vertical lol Anyways i do 3 k grows with no issues pure power plant and with 1000's 16 - 18 inches from tops

Pure Power Plant, a strong F1 hybrid, was developed in the late 90s from a South African Sativa and a fat Indica from the USA. Pure Power Plant's tremendous growth potential is a prime example of hybrid vigour, So to say never attempt

You can run em like you`re doin IF you can stay on top of the vertical growth after pullin the trigger and flippin em with lollipoppin the fuck outta the bottoms and pullin em back and under the screens to provide an even canopy by end of stretch , but at what cost yield wise and time consumption wise workin the pain in the ass sativa dominant mutherfuckers till they cease stretch and start swellage.....that said....

You will find Blue Dream listed as a Sativa strain on most dispensary menus throughout California because of the strong, energetic head-high it is known for. However, digging deeper you will find that the actual Blue Dream genetics can be linked to Blueberry and Super Silver Haze, making it a 50/50 hybrid Also depending on the Blue Dream phenotype you pick


Horizontal fixtures store heat like a mofo and that`s what was happening to your plants cuz you couldn`t raise the light source during stretch to keep it far enough away from the plants without fryin their ass....period.....now...

True horizontal stores heat but having a fan blowing in between canopy and lights also get rid of that heat rather quickly
during stretch its actually better to lower your lights to help stop the stretch Also Super cropping until bud set helps Tremendously Yas remember the hand on top of canopy


You can run em like you`re doin IF you can stay on top of the vertical growth after pullin the trigger and flippin em with lollipoppin the fuck outta the bottoms and pullin em back and under the screens to provide an even canopy by end of stretch , but at what cost yield wise and time consumption wise workin the pain in the ass sativa dominant mutherfuckers till they cease stretch and start swellage.
Really ??? not that hard at all when you think about it lol
And at what cost yield wise ??? none
If your only going to throw few strings across your canopy or a net of some sort you got to pull the fucker down i drop yes actually drop my scrog table on plants week or so prior to flipping yes literally squash plants then raise and set accordingly litterally daily during stretch phase stretching branches out wards and filling the table supercropping non stop during stretch phase ,, Once buds are started i set my table adjust final light distance and start cleaning under neath table



you mention you murdered 1000s would you have any pics to show us ???

 

[RetroGrow]

retro,

I agree with ur analysis on vert bare bulbs. But I don't understand why u would ask KB to do it. If ur interested u should do it, not challenge somebody else while u say u aren't going to.

I would guess though that these tables would keep up pretty well.

Not challenging him at all. Made that pretty clear, I thought. Was not being critical. Just threw that out there as something I would like to see, but not going to do it myself, as I already have my own growing style, taken from Heath Robinson and Marlo's WOW thread. I have had my best results using bare bulbs, and making full use of the cubic feet of the space, which tables/hoods can never do, as they diminish cubic feet. I like to make use of all the space in the room, including height. Even stadium grows make better use of room space. As I stated, strain is a big factor here. Indica dom plants can do very well in a SOG run on tables, but, I believe they can do better in a stadium grow with bare bulbs, simply because of more light.
I like Krunche's grows, and I know he likes to do side by sides to test things, hence my suggestion, which was somewhat tongue in cheek. I know he knows what he is doing. As far as Sat doms, I just don't see how tables can increase yields, as you are losing the overhead space, especially with hoods taking up ceiling height. I prefer Sativas, so this style would not be for me, but I still find it interesting, and would like to see it work out well for him.

 

[RetroGrow]

THAT`s the name of the game...but no fuckin body does it , and that`s where lollipoppin originated from by letting vertical growth get outta hand and HAVING to get rid of the shit underneath where the above plant matter can be all it can be and yield accordingly....

Well, a couple of us do.....
That said, I agree with your post.
Krunch knows what he is doing, so I am sure he will work it out. No veg time would probably work well in this system with sat dom strains.

 

[DrFever]

Not challenging him at all. Made that pretty clear, I thought. Was not being critical. Just threw that out there as something I would like to see, but not going to do it myself, as I already have my own growing style, taken from Heath Robinson and Marlo's WOW thread. I have had my best results using bare bulbs, and making full use of the cubic feet of the space, which tables/hoods can never do, as they diminish cubic feet. I like to make use of all the space in the room, including height. Even stadium grows make better use of room space. As I stated, strain is a big factor here. Indica dom plants can do very well in a SOG run on tables, but, I believe they can do better in a stadium grow with bare bulbs, simply because of more light.
I like Krunche's grows, and I know he likes to do side by sides to test things, hence my suggestion, which was somewhat tongue in cheek. I know he knows what he is doing. As far as Sat doms, I just don't see how tables can increase yields, as you are losing the overhead space, especially with hoods taking up ceiling height. I prefer Sativas, so this style would not be for me, but I still find it interesting, and would like to see it work out well for him.

Not trying to come down as a prick but has anyone ever done or come close to heaths grow ??? as in yield ???? Don't kid your self thinking Vert will out yield Horizontal cause in reality the numbers are not matching up you can yell at the top of your lungs that you get 135 percent more space,, well if thats the case how come there not matching up i mean look at the yields/ journals etc sure some are killing it but then again its multiple lights tree grows well if thats the case tree grows horizontal kill it as well right ??? but in all seriousness i am seeing most Vert growers hitting .85 - 87 then you look at horizontal threads and growers even with 400 watt grows are killing it horizontal

I dont understand what you mean by more light in a stadium grow ??? We are not worried about losing ceiling height
Before it was well you lose so much in reflectors if you think loosing 5 percent of light if that to a reflector is going to make a difference really its not cause no matter what you are getting all of light directed to a point source and thats canopy
with vertical sure its 360 degrees and runs cooler cause all par is going 360 degrees and being lost rather quickly as well

At the end of the day its what ever works best in your situation my self nothing can touch scrog style grows training all buds to that intense light source low plant numbers or big top buds are always the biggest get lots of them and your Laughing

 

[RetroGrow]

Not kidding myself at all. Vert yields more than horizontal by a wide margin in my case, growing sativas. Tall plants do MUCH better with vert, and, anyway, you would not want to grow tall plants SOG style. As far as stadium, verts put out about 40% more usable light than hoods with less heat, a suitable alternative, so work fine with shorter strains, while still making use of your cubic footage. To each his own. I am not knocking anyone's style. Everyone's situation is different, and strains make a big difference. However, I can assure you I have blown away the numbers you are posting. Don't know where you get them from, but it doesn't matter. I go by the numbers I have gotten, not what someone else posts. But, I do longer veg times, so they should be better. Also, with stacked verticals, like I use, no popcorn, and lollypopping not necessary for the most part. Fat, big buds top to bottom. Easier to trim IMO. Verts done right will out yield horizontal in my experience, as I am using all the cubic footage in the room with 10 foot ceilings. With horizontal, tables and hoods, you are not making use of the cubic footage of the room, only the square footage. Again, strains make all the difference in choosing your style of growing. Know your strains, know the style that's best for them. I would rather have 20 trees with big fat buds up & down, than 50 smaller plants with smaller buds that require more trimming. Just my personal preference. Not knocking Krunch or anyone else. To each his own. I do use a hood for my seedlings, though. Other than that, they are just taking up space that I am using, and they create more heat, which I don' want. Lot's of different ways of growing, and they all have their place.

 

[DunHav`nFun]

More "cut and paste" bullshit from Dr Dumbass.....Zinc deficiency my ass..........Not gonna try and fuck up Krunch`s thread cuz most here know what a dick with ears you are , but takin pokes and punches at me in other folks thread`s not the best way to get folks to TRY and see your point of view , like quoting breeder descriptions of certain strains to make a point that`s pointless....and yeah .....

Back when I started doin this shit there WAS nobody to ask about deficiencies , plant structure , finish times on each strain , actually NOTHING to help us old heads........and how did we learn ?.....

By doin and fuckin up , learnin from our mistakes and movin on toward increased knowledge and understanding HOW to exploit pot plants INSIDE , again cuz NOBODY had ever done it before...and while you were still in your pore `ol daddy`s nutsack , I was learnin and getting better at my craft , cuz back then we all helped each other and there WERE no Dr Dumbass know-it-all kids around to spew bullshit and fuck up threads like you`re so adept at doin ...now.....

Only someone of your limited intelligence and age would spew shit like "Care to show some pics of your 1000`s of murdered plants over the yrs" and why ?.....To make YOU feel better ?......Please.....The reason those plants got sacrificed was in the quest for knowledge and not to please dumbass naysayers like you to hold over my head like it means something.....

Go back to your cut and paste wannabe world cuz you definitely don`t belong here where folks like me TRY to help folks from yrs of knowledge and experience , while folks like you LIVE to derail threads and spew shit like there`s NO way vert`s better than flat grows , cuz EVERYONE here has seen you beatin this dead horse for awhile....and for the record....

Anyone that could POSSIBLY ever think that Krunch`s problems stemmed from zinc deficiency , or ANYTIHNG of that sort since Krunch ain`t no newbster , is a fuckin moron.....Oh wait...that was you with your cut and paste bullshit again...

I rest my case....Again sorry for clogging your thread Krunch , but this idiot and a few others like to follow me around and fuck with this old ass....

Good luck Krunch and....

Peace....DHF.........

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I keep the number of pictures down. And I also don't start alot of threads because it is prudent. I will post pictures but it is nobodies business what I have. Why would I let Leo no what I have. Just inviting trouble even though I am below the legal numbers.

It only makes sence that Fred does not have pictures. His situation required no pictures. Post on Fred you helped me and many others get started. At a time when I had to grow or not eat. I am fat and eating is a addiction for me.

 

[LyryC]

More "cut and paste" bullshit from Dr Dumbass.....Zinc deficiency my ass..........Not gonna try and fuck up Krunch`s thread cuz most here know what a dick with ears you are , but takin pokes and punches at me in other folks thread`s not the best way to get folks to TRY and see your point of view , like quoting breeder descriptions of certain strains to make a point that`s pointless....and yeah .....

Back when I started doin this shit there WAS nobody to ask about deficiencies , plant structure , finish times on each strain , actually NOTHING to help us old heads........and how did we learn ?.....

By doin and fuckin up , learnin from our mistakes and movin on toward increased knowledge and understanding HOW to exploit pot plants INSIDE , again cuz NOBODY had ever done it before...and while you were still in your pore `ol daddy`s nutsack , I was learnin and getting better at my craft , cuz back then we all helped each other and there WERE no Dr Dumbass know-it-all kids around to spew bullshit and fuck up threads like you`re so adept at doin ...now.....

Only someone of your limited intelligence and age would spew shit like "Care to show some pics of your 1000`s of murdered plants over the yrs" and why ?.....To make YOU feel better ?......Please.....The reason those plants got sacrificed was in the quest for knowledge and not to please dumbass naysayers like you to hold over my head like it means something.....

Go back to your cut and paste wannabe world cuz you definitely don`t belong here where folks like me TRY to help folks from yrs of knowledge and experience , while folks like you LIVE to derail threads and spew shit like there`s NO way vert`s better than flat grows , cuz EVERYONE here has seen you beatin this dead horse for awhile....and for the record....

Anyone that could POSSIBLY ever think that Krunch`s problems stemmed from zinc deficiency , or ANYTIHNG of that sort since Krunch ain`t no newbster , is a fuckin moron.....Oh wait...that was you with your cut and paste bullshit again...

I rest my case....Again sorry for clogging your thread Krunch , but this idiot and a few others like to follow me around and fuck with this old ass....

Good luck Krunch and....

Peace....DHF.........

The irony is you talked shit about icmag. Saying how all the good "ogs" left here and are on other "private" growing sites...

but you still come back to be that hypocrite you are!

You are the copy cut n paste ICMAG KING DHF!

We all know your game.

no ones ever smoked with you, you have zero pictures, no threads, you easily get butthurt for such a hard old ass...

Plus those fucking essays you wrote in here, pretty much useless hahaha

The fuck you ganna change with what you say? Nothing! just like before.

You never murdered shit DHF, maybe the ice cream in mommies freezer.

You fraud!

Gotta keep it real when some one on their 3rd handle comes around and starts talking shit cause their an "old head" but act worse than the new age punks.

Even if you are knowledgeable, you aren't credible. And thats what separates you from the Real OG's like Retro and Krunchbubble which is why i wrote this.

If you wanna change a lot of peoples minds you can prove your expertise and quit talking about it.