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The search for a proper recovery pump..

P

Permacultuure

Member
Veteran
I see.....and I see them on FB now......So these guys are running a full on hydrocarbon extractor business and openly said

"requires a 5hp screw compressor from what were told, but we are going to try it with our 5hp standard compressor first and see how it works"

Apparently they talked to professionals eventually and got the required 10hp Screw, but these are the guys teaching public classes?
 
J

JColtrane

Member
Been biting my toung ever since they made that post. Let them do it their way, we'll do it ours. I know who I've got on my team :dance013:
 
Rickys bong

Rickys bong

Member
Veteran
Jdubba said:
Anyone see the new Promax RG6? It's the RG6000 replacement. Anyone know what they improved?
Click to expand...

Hmmm... Identical specs. No new features that I can see. Looks like they are charging an extra $50 for a shorter name and new color. Maybe they are taking marketing tips from the auto industry?

Looking through the spare parts page for the RG6000 reveals something interesting though... The important bits are identical to the Appion G5! Holy Crap.
http://www.centurytool.net/RG6000_PROMAX_Ultra_Refrigerant_Recovery_Unit_p/rg6000.htm

They've added a bit of cooling fins to the cylinders but I'll bet all the parts interchange. I know the valve plate from the earlier RG5000 / 5400 series are identical to the Appion so I'd guess either someone who worked for one company left and went to the other or... they are made by the same subcontractor. Wayyyy too similar to be coincidence. Interesting.

RB
 
F

flatslabs

Member
The specs are actually a little different, seems like century tool didn't realize the difference and copy and pasted the RG6000 stuff over. The specs for the 6000 on Robinair site are broken so I am referencing Centurytool 6000 specs vs Robinair RG6 specs but the RG6 appears to have slightly better lbs/min recovery rates for all listed refrigerants.
 
F

flatslabs

Member
Being rated for hydrocarbons doesn't mean much, there are tons of HVAC pumps you could technically use for this application. This one is not suitable because it is not oil-less so you might as well get the caresaver instead as its at least explosion proof.

The main things we are looking for in a non-commercial application pump are:

1) Oil-less compressor

2) Explosion proof motor

3) Affordable without requiring a $10k air compressor to run
 
F

Fazer1HashTrees

Member
flatslabs said:
Being rated for hydrocarbons doesn't mean much, there are tons of HVAC pumps you could technically use for this application. This one is not suitable because it is not oil-less so you might as well get the caresaver instead as its at least explosion proof.

The main things we are looking for in a non-commercial application pump are:

1) Oil-less compressor

2) Explosion proof motor

3) Affordable without requiring a $10k air compressor to run
Click to expand...

I know this. This is why I emailed them asking if it is explosion proof and oil-less heres what they told me.

"We'll put you on the list. We plan to have an oilless explosion proof hydrocarbon recovery unit with stainless piping sometime in the October/November timeframe."

Sounds like a better option then a lot of HVAC pumps out there.
 
F

flatslabs

Member
Fazer1HashTrees said:
I know this. This is why I emailed them asking if it is explosion proof and oil-less heres what they told me.

"We'll put you on the list. We plan to have an oilless explosion proof hydrocarbon recovery unit with stainless piping sometime in the October/November timeframe."

Sounds like a better option then a lot of HVAC pumps out there.
Click to expand...


Sounds good and I hope they come through with something, but the link you posted specifically states it is not oil-less which is why I made the post in the first place.
 
R

RegisPhilburn1

Member
Fazer1HashTrees said:
I know this. This is why I emailed them asking if it is explosion proof and oil-less heres what they told me.

"We'll put you on the list. We plan to have an oilless explosion proof hydrocarbon recovery unit with stainless piping sometime in the October/November timeframe."

Sounds like a better option then a lot of HVAC pumps out there.
Click to expand...

Kinda looks like the pumps from CM green just relabeled. Ecogreen industries is now the official CM green North American distributer, and has a container full of pumps on the way. Though like many on alibaba, if you have the cash they'd send you a container full too.

CMEP (oiled)

CM-EP 6000. Oil-less but probably a bit to large/powerful. Wouldn't mind a building bigger extractor than the MkIV ;)


Galaxair ADF-500 (pneumatic, stainless option)

Supposedly people are going to try using hemp seed oil as the lubricant in the oiled compressors to are contamination a little less worrisome.
 
P

Permacultuure

Member
Veteran
What about these filters for oiled pumps, specifically the carsesaver? I've heard a lot of talk about proprietary this and that but have yet to see one. I saw a photo of an i502 lab that had been approved and it was using a caresaver. I asked about it and he said he had developed a filter specifically engineered blah blah blah....I'd like to see one, GW you spoke of something similar I believe using carbon?

Fazer - sounds like the same thing Ironfist is saying, or repeating.....Is everyone betting on one horse here?
I have my doubts that having stainless plumbing and "built to our needs" that these pumps won't fail over time as well.
 
J

JColtrane

Member
Step up to the plate, spend the money ... and do it right! Glad to be working with pro's, and not keeping on going in circles.
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
RegisPhilburn1 said:
Kinda looks like the pumps from CM green just relabeled. Ecogreen industries is now the official CM green North American distributer, and has a container full of pumps on the way. Though like many on alibaba, if you have the cash they'd send you a container full too.

CMEP (oiled)

CM-EP 6000. Oil-less but probably a bit to large/powerful. Wouldn't mind a building bigger extractor than the MkIV ;)


Galaxair ADF-500 (pneumatic, stainless option)

Supposedly people are going to try using hemp seed oil as the lubricant in the oiled compressors to are contamination a little less worrisome.
Click to expand...

Ecogreen arranged for the factory to test Hemp seed oil as a lubricant and then test the oil for breakdown products. The results aren't known yet.

Skunk Pharm Research has agreed to test one of the new pumps when they arrive and report the results. If they are running Hemp seed oil as the lubricant, we will also have the oil tested by a third party forensic lab for breakdown products.

The same manufacturer, also promises oil less pumps, but I haven't seen the specs yet.

We are far enough along in our VICI Metronics R&D program, that I'm confident we can scrub the pump exhaust of residual pump oil, though they are not cheap filters and would require regular replacement.

Welsh also makes a $4100 oil bath pump that they will certify for R-600, which will pull vacuum into the micron range, but is only capable of 30 psi out put, so would require an effective looow temperature heat exchanger, or an axillary pump, to get tank pressures down to 30 psi.

We are working on borrowing a test pump and are currently building two heat exchangers using liquid nitrogen for the coolant.
 
R

RHH

Member
Care to share more info on that LN2 heat exchanger? Been looking towards using an LN2 dewar to submerge a heat exchanger for the gast but I'm sure you are more sophisticated than me. I was mostly concerned about fittings leaking if they get too cold.

The gast is a beast...but the auxiliary pumps will never keep pace with it so we are forced to throttle the intake. =[
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
RHH said:
Care to share more info on that LN2 heat exchanger? Been looking towards using an LN2 dewar to submerge a heat exchanger for the gast but I'm sure you are more sophisticated than me. I was mostly concerned about fittings leaking if they get too cold.

The gast is a beast...but the auxiliary pumps will never keep pace with it so we are forced to throttle the intake. =[
Click to expand...

In our first Mk VB beta test, the simple coil of 20' of 3/8" stainless tubing in a ice water bath, with 25# of dry ice in the bottom, dropped the tank pressure 100 psi lower than the original Mk V, upgraded to include an identical Gast/Promax recovery system, and which was running along side it.

The current experiment will pass the N2 from a Dewar through a short counter flow heat exchanger for butane injection, so that the butane in the tank can be kept warmer to facilitate faster pumping.

As many of ya'll know, a counter flow heat exchanger has a tube within a tube and usually passes coolant through the outer tube and product through the inner.

Our system also passes that and additional N2 through 50' of 3/8" stainless tubing in a tank of alcohol, which has two more 3/8" heat exchanger coils. One for the diaphragm pump and one for the final recovery pump.

Finally the N2 is routed through a 3/8" coil wrapped around the storage tank, in its ice bath.

Liquid N2 is at 77K/-196C/-320F and releases its heat of vaporization of 5.56 kJ/Mol x -1 when it turns to vapor.
 
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