Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.

[Loose Cannon]

I've never seen a nute deficiency effect only parts of plants except for bottom to top, uniformly.
Also find it hard to believe a group of seemingly very experienced growers having similar nute problems as a group.
Plus a few of the todes in question have apparently been lab confirmed as present in "dud" samples.
None of this either proves or disproves that certain tode is the cause but a reasonable mind would continue with the hypothesis most likely as the cause until it is proved or disproved scientifically.
Hopefully a few more tests and help from one or more of these labs have ideas as to resolving IF it turns out to be that nematode as the cause.
Just my limited opinion/ experience. Since '91.

 

[papaduc]

#

 

[DoomsDay]

Don't understand all the hate being thrown papaducs way... he may not be agreeing with you, but what he is pointing out is the basis of scientific analysis. Theory are theory for a reason... don't like your theory being put down, should have put a more solid backing behind it that wouldn't allow the theory to be disproven / raise more questions than when you initially began.

Like his practices or not, he is at least going about the testing in the appropriate manner... most of you are just giving him shit for not coming to assumptions or because he chooses not to cut corners to ensure all avenues of approach are covered....

 

[CaliGabe]

i dont care how healthy your collard greens are they wont withstand a heavy deer infestation.

Not true in some parts of the country. I spent the summer in CO and the deer variety there would rather eat the trees than the canna plants. Was crazy to watch. I was living VERY rural country and saw deer all over and the plot we had in back was untouched. Not one friend I know has lost a plant to deer over the years and no deer fencing, open range and herds of deer to be seen driving down the roads. In Cali a different story.

While not totally convinced it really appears that the loss of branches on plants and one plant being a dud over an another does seem more like nematodes infecting certain parts of the plant or the entire plant from a 'bad' cut. I don't fault the SDF crew at all.

I remember when I had root aphids for the first, and only, time and offered the infected plants to friends to see if their philosophy/approach could deal with the issue and got dead silence. Would LOVE to see someone ragging on the dud phenomenon take a known infected cut/plant from a quality grower and deal with it! We could probably hear a pin drop lol.

 

[milkyjoe]

I've never seen a nute deficiency effect only parts of plants except for bottom to top, uniformly.
Also find it hard to believe a group of seemingly very experienced growers having similar nute problems as a group.
Plus a few of the todes in question have apparently been lab confirmed as present in "dud" samples.
None of this either proves or disproves that certain tode is the cause but a reasonable mind would continue with the hypothesis most likely as the cause until it is proved or disproved scientifically.
Hopefully a few more tests and help from one or more of these labs have ideas as to resolving IF it turns out to be that nematode as the cause.
Just my limited opinion/ experience. Since '91.

Some nutes are mobile and some aren't. Ca always shows intop leaves...k in bottom. That should be wwell understood

 

[Crooked8]

When you've got that kind of growth, you need to cut them back to the lowest shoot, crock the roots, put the fluoro right on top of them, let the grow thick for 6 inches, pot them up, hit them with HID lights... and you'll have a completely different plant on your hands... 100% guaranteed.

This is simply not true with duds. Really for any non dud ive had either. If you tried this with a dud, you WOULD NOT have a different plant. Even with an unsound plant you wouldnt necessarily need to cut it back that hard. Ive nursed many sick plants back to health with proper nutrition and an adequate environment alone. One thing is for sure though, your aforementioned strategy wouldnt change a thing about a dud. It would grow back up into a larger dudded plant and you would have wasted time.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Some nutes are mobile and some aren't. Ca always shows intop leaves...k in bottom. That should be wwell understood

Apparently I've never had a Ca deficiency.
This much is very well understood.[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]

 

[milkyjoe]

If you say so.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Take my opinion for what you think it is worth but you cannot give a healthy plant witth good mineral and enzyme levels a disease. What I see on the duds is...maybe I should say is I think I see...is some serious ca and b shotages...the weak floppy stems. That sets off a chain reaction...think mulders chart or nova crop controls work.

Low ca leads to high mg and k. High mg leads to low nitrate by forming chlorophyll...dark leaves. Low nitrate leads to high P, especially when combined with pk boosters. High p ties up zn which produces small leaves.

Weak brittle stems and small leaves.

Like I said take it fot what you think it is worth

why are you talking about plant physiology in a thread about dud plants?? a phenomenon only experienced by marijuana growers...

Any other crop or farm that had "duds" would bring in an agronomist to figure out the reason for the duds , usually they are mineral.

 

[milkyjoe]

I wanted tp punish myself. Things are going too well

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Ive told you before but I'll say it again, my friend , you are a masochist.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

i. Would LOVE to see someone ragging on the dud phenomenon take a known infected cut/plant from a quality grower and deal with it! We could probably hear a pin drop lol.

m trying. of course im not ragging on the dud phenomenon. i have access to a dud that im bringing into lab to try to cure the cut. not to treat active dudding room but to save a cultivar. id be happy to hand one to papaduc to cure.
he s not saying he has the answer. its just that a few of his theories ignore basic facts in the case that conveniently allow for his theories to stay relavant.

big oversight. if this is a cultural cut position or nutrient based problem why did it just start proliferating in the 2008-20011 time frame and why does it spread. pontificating endlessly about these theories while time after time dropping in conveniently missing that.

no hate just exhaustion.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

i think a pathologist would be more helpful anyone whos had this run through theor room knows its not mineral.ucdavis found the todes.

why are you talking about plant physiology in a thread about dud plants?? a phenomenon only experienced by marijuana growers...

Any other crop or farm that had "duds" would bring in an agronomist to figure out the reason for the duds , usually they are mineral.

 

[milkyjoe]

One last thing then I give up. If you use a nemacide follow the safety directions. That shit has killed people. Or learn mineral nutrtion

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

Slash bun restart is also an option. Weed will in general grow decently in a modestly adequate environment with generic potting soul and mild simple all purpose fertilizer. You may not make headlines with your grow but it will live and make regular buds. A dud on the other hand will not . there are some very knowledgeable growers have been stumped by this. My guess is a lot of you will be too. Unless you approach it for what it is.

 

[RetroGrow]

why are you talking about plant physiology in a thread about dud plants?? a phenomenon only experienced by marijuana growers...

Any other crop or farm that had "duds" would bring in an agronomist to figure out the reason for the duds , usually they are mineral.

This is not only a problem with cannabis. Many crops are attacked, and "dudded" by nematodes, the most well known in the U.S. being alfalfa. Curious that some people are putting alfalfa meal in their mixes to obtain the triacontanol contained therein, POSSIBLY passing on the Ditylenchus dipsaci that commonly infect alfalfa. Lot's of snake oil contains this product. Perhaps we should be getting some of that tested, seeing as how these creatures can last for years in a dehydrated state, and can live for 30 years in a seed. Farmers have been dealing with them for over a hundred years, and the nematodes survive. They are almost impossible to kill totally. Probably the single most difficult pathogen to deal with. No easy solution. No magic bullet. Yet....

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

And yes panicked greedy dicks with problems and access to poisonous solutions and little knowledge of Thier use is terrifying.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

There are 2 bacterial / fungal products that are listed to kill these things...

Don't know what's so scary?

Did some one post the result of the Davis pathology lab test ??

Same people also made claims Davis found TMV in cannabis , but the report was never produced either...

Easy to throw around big names like UC Davis , but not produce the test results from them.

I use LOTS of alfalfa meal on my farm , and grow large trees of bountiful resinous flowers,,,If these pests are so hard core then how can there even manage to be an alfalfa crop at all ??? LOL..You guys...come on...


My last contribution is , please learn about enzyme systems of plants and what it takes to activate them...

MeloCon and Nortica will kill these organisms.

 

[whatthe215]

I use LOTS of alfalfa meal on my farm , and grow large trees of bountiful resinous flowers,,,If these pests are so hard core then how can there even manage to be an alfalfa crop at all ??? LOL..You guys...come on...

Isn't that sorta like saying "If HIV/AIDS, bubonic plague, whatever disease is so hardcore... then how can humans manage to live/exist?"

Just thought it was an interesting statement.

Gotta get me some nortica nd melocon.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Not really because the way that Humans replicate is a lot different than the way these pests can transfer from one plant to another ie., one guy isn't going to give 50 females aids in one night , but you can give all your strains this disease or others by propagating infected plants in the same 50 tray as non infected plants...

Not saying you'll get a 100% infection rate from either scenario but just that the way diseases amongst humans and plants spread ..it's hard to compare the two

just reading the way some of you guys are talking about these nematodes is making me poke a little fun at the whole situation because with about 10 minutes of the CORRECT research I found TWO different organic control agents for these bugs that Heat and Drought don't kill...again Nortica and MeloCon ,,, no garden problem is a big deal ,,, you just need to identify the problem and then do the research to find the correct solution and apply it...doesn't need to be so complex or require another 120 pages past this one to determine the way to handle it.