Top-feeding only... why I like it.

[Crazy Composer]

magiccannabus, you'll get the flower height answers from my last post. As for topping... yes, I do quite often end up topping my OGs and ECSDs, but that depends on if they need it. Also, topping these tall ladies takes a little practice because they don't stall in their upward growth after topping, like some other strains do. They will keep shooting upward like rockets. For me, the idea is to create as many tops as possible to compete for the top spots in the canopy. If those tall ladies don't go to flower short enough, you get the monster ECSD you see at the beginning of this thread. And believe me, I DID NOT want her to get that big in such a small container. That's really an impractical size. But... the point was that top-feeding only CAN produce amazingly strong results if handled well. That entire ECSD was turned into bubble hash, and I am about to fry out with some right now. ECSD bubble is amazing! The taste is great. The hash never seems to dry up to the powdery consistency most other strains seem to. It stays pliable and very, very blonde. Off topic. sorry.

Topping strategy all depends on the strain. My Killer Queens do quite well with or without topping. And even the ECSD and OGs can do very well without topping as long as they start out with an abundance of growth tips, but I find this rare.

 

[shivaskunkpunk]

Incredible thread CC I'd been practicing this way of farming w/o any real direction, thanks for pouring gas on a flickering flame bro, Peace SSP

 

[SpaaaceCowboy]

Doing some top feeds of compost and bat guano.
I'll let you know how it goes.
(need my ECSD to look like yours)

Hey bro....it's been a couple of weeks....Wondering if we can get an update ?

Great thread CC...thanks I've learned a lot !

 

[Bulldog420]

What do you top dress when trying to up calcium?

 

[Crazy Composer]

I've never had to worry about that myself, so I can't tell you what's best there. I did a quick search and found that you can bake egg shells in the oven, crush them up finely and use that. I know my wife uses this method when she makes dog food. She insists on making the dog food around here, we only feed store-bought dog food when we are caught in a tight spot for some reason and can't feed raw foods that day. But yeah, baked and crushed egg shells will do the trick.

 

[Infinitesimal]

I don't know how soluble the Cal would be, unless the heat does something to change that... another thing that can be done is... dissolving the egg shells in either lemon juice or vinegar then dilute and use to water your plants, that will deliver an organic dose of calcium

also kelp meal has calcium as long as the small amount of N won't mess things up

 

[tommygh]

I baked egg shells and ground them up to almost a powder a couple of weeks ago, but I read it takes a while for the calcium to be absorbed that way. Next time I'll add some vinegar to the grounds, and let them sit a couple of days, since the absorption should be much faster.

 

[Mikell]

I've top-dressed small amounts of oyster shell flour and remediated the deficiency within 10-14 days, working it in below mulch/soil level. Agricultural lime would probably give the same result in small doses, gypsum won't effect pH as much.

Crab/shrimp meal, though they have higher levels of nitrogen than kelp.

 

[Bulldog420]

Dam, thanks everybody. I was thinking crap/shrimp or shell meal would do the trick. Thanks for all the options everybody.

 

[Mikell]

Is that based on your soil analysis or an actual deficiency?

http://www.soils.wisc.edu/extension/pubs/A2986.pdf

 

[Bulldog420]

Soil tests. My plants show zero deficiencies. Healthy green 8ft monsters. (for starting so late in the season) I grow in a green house and the plants were flipped 8-10-14.

 

[Bulldog420]

I've never had to worry about that myself, so I can't tell you what's best there. I did a quick search and found that you can bake egg shells in the oven, crush them up finely and use that. I know my wife uses this method when she makes dog food. She insists on making the dog food around here, we only feed store-bought dog food when we are caught in a tight spot for some reason and can't feed raw foods that day. But yeah, baked and crushed egg shells will do the trick.

How in the world can you never need calcium? I don't care how rich my soil is, by the end of the season calcium is needed every time, IME.

 

[Crazy Composer]

My plants need calcium, but they don't seem to need any more than I give them.

 

[SpaaaceCowboy]

Hey CC...awesome thread, thanks...I'm just starting in organics, and will be employing topdressing right now as I have my first organic plant a week and a half into 12-12....

2 questions:

1 - on average, how many times would you say you topdress a plant during flower ?

2 - do you ever mix in anything to help aerate the top layer where you are topdressing ? I was wondering if that you would need to add like perlite or rice hulls or something ?

I've actually read this thread 3x....lots of info to digest.....but it's definitely helping me formulate a game plan !

 

[northernm]

northernm, Ja, Deutsche. Well... length of veg... again, it depends doesn't it? In my veg garden, which is 600 watts HPS in a 4x4 tent, it takes about 10-14 days of veg to get to the right height, unless they are slow to take to their new soil, then it, may take longer. The real point (for my garden) is to get them to 12-18" with as robust a stature as possible... This is what I do. The REAL magic happens in the first three weeks of 12/12. IF they get the best possible positions in the flower room as possible when they first go in, they will continue to stretch and branch like crazy. They are vegged in their 3 or 4 gallon containers until I think the roots are well-established, then set them to flower. My transplanting schedule goes like this... Rooted clones go to beer cups, then the beer cup plants go to about 8" in height or so (for the ECSD, OG and other stretchy plants I like for their growth habits), they may get topped, depending on whether I am seeing the number of growth tips I want to see. The beer cup stage is done under a T5 light. Once they are the right size and volume in the beer cups, they go straight to the final pots and vegged under 600 watts HPS. If all goes well, they only need a week or two in veg before they HAVE to go to flower, or they'll get too damn big in the flower room. All the while they get nothing but top-fed organic nutrient sources.

Many many thx for patiently answering all the questions so detailed!

You repot exactly like i do regarding pot sizes while i use bio bizz nutes, but intend to change to organic nutrients and top-feeding seems a very good alternative to classic feeding.

Already have a list of organic nutrients ready and am now working on how fast they get released and so on, will def keep on reading!

Maybe i overread it, but how many of these monster-ECSD´s would fit in you veg chamber? They look incredible huge...

 

[Krull]

Excellent thread CC.
I'm a big fan of top feed / top dress, works wonder for many crops and it's very easy.
It's incredible to see people unaware of this method... probably kinda old school.
Nice suggestion on the initial surface wetting.

Peace

=K

 

[DabSnob]

I shall attempt this my next round. sounds very hands on and has the potential of really letting the plants speak to you, which we all know is key to mastering any one strain. with bottles you cant really fine tune like you could top feeding with powdered amendments, composts, and extracts.

 

[magiccannabus]

In organic terms the idea really makes a lot of sense. Soil in nature is basically all top-fed, with each generation of plants pulling the nutrients up and then decaying back in. Ruminants like deer and rabbits poop on the ground and that feeds from the top as well.

 

[Crazy Composer]

SpaaaceCowboy,

Well, I usually feed them once a week, about a tablespoon or so of the appropriate NPK value for the week they're about to enter. I'm using 3-4 gallon pots. The size of the pot makes a difference to how the organic matter behaves at the surface. A large pot will disperse the organic matter wider than a small pot, obviously.

I don't add anything to the surface for aeration exclusively. I find this isn't really needed as long as all other aspects of the grow are in order. The organic matter from the weeks prior will be (mostly) consumed every week or two, so accumulation at the surface isn't a big deal. If you find you are having trouble with accumulation, try feeding less. If this isn't enough, I would try something for aeration. Water drainage is slow with top feeding, it is a fact of life... especially after the roots establish heavily at the surface of the soil, as they do when top fed.

 

[SpaaaceCowboy]

CC....I just topdressed for the first time...It's the start of week 3 of flowering...

I topdressed with 1 tbsp. of Seabird Guano, and 1/2 tsp. of kelp meal...

Question: The seabird guano is in pelletized form...After I watered the pellets did not seem to break down at all...Is that normal ? Are they supposed to break down gradually ?
What do you think of running those pellets through a coffee grinder first, and then topdressing ? Seem to me that it would be like an instant shot of goodness to the plant.