Curious on how many switched back

[who dat is]

Why does everybody have to be so damn right all the time? If the shoe fits, wear it. You're not going to have the same style shoe as the next guy but everyone has their own style that works for them.

This thread is titled, "Curious on how many switched back" not "I grow this way and you're wrong if you don't."

 

[RedBeardy5]

No shit, this thread has turned into a bashing war. It's not cool where this thread is going, I'm done following.

 

[twist1uc]

ike saying no need for a thermostat in a engine well sure the engine will run does not mean it will be at peak operating range for best torque / and horsepower what you have is a engine never reaching operating range thus fuel costs go up performance drops yea get it

Now that's some sexy shit right there!!!!

 

[twist1uc]

Why does everybody have to be so damn right all the time? If the shoe fits, wear it. You're not going to have the same style shoe as the next guy but everyone has their own style that works for them.

This thread is titled, "Curious on how many switched back" not "I grow this way and you're wrong if you don't."

 

[DrFever]

No shit, this thread has turned into a bashing war. It's not cool where this thread is going, I'm done following.

No it has not become into a bashing war yea i ask has anyone switched back cause in reality if your not doubling your yields how Vert so call Claims and when you actually look at yields from finished vert journals its tells me a shit load
for one efficiency if growers are getting .85 - .87 gram per watt then the efficiency is thrown out the door on vertical any average or below average grower can achieve these numbers horizontally

Secondly if this is the case then is it just growers preference to go vertical being it suits there way of growing then that is fine
but when you here vert growers saying its by far better better yields then that becomes a problem to me and many other people Like DHF would say Proof is in the pudding
And right now the proof is showing me from journals i am reading that this is not the case Vert is by far not the best way to maximize yields again proof is in the pudding right ????

 

[who dat is]

No it has not become into a bashing war yea i ask has anyone switched back cause in reality if your not doubling your yields how Vert so call Claims and when you actually look at yields from finished vert journals its tells me a shit load
for one efficiency if growers are getting .85 - .87 gram per watt then the efficiency is thrown out the door on vertical any average or below average grower can achieve these numbers horizontally

Secondly if this is the case then is it just growers preference to go vertical being it suits there way of growing then that is fine
but when you here vert growers saying its by far better better yields then that becomes a problem to me and many other people Like DHF would say Proof is in the pudding
And right now the proof is showing me from journals i am reading that this is not the case Vert is by far not the best way to maximize yields again proof is in the pudding right ????

You're right, I should convert and go to horizontal.

Not nobody wearing shoes like miiinnnneeeeee

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Sorry bro but that is not a strong proof of evidence for benefits of vert growing. Looks like a .5 gpw grow from here. Nowhere even close to utilizing all the potential canopy real estate for that setup.

In your case I think maybe horizontal would be more efficient. You could squeeze another 3 plants under each light in a horizontal setup and be within the footprint. 9 plants 3 rows of 3, probably each equal in size to those.

 

[who dat is]

Sorry bro but that is not a strong proof of evidence for benefits of vert growing. Looks like a .5 gpw grow from here. Nowhere even close to utilizing all the potential canopy real estate for that setup.

In your case I think maybe horizontal would be more efficient. You could squeeze another 3 plants under each light in a horizontal setup and be within the footprint. 9 plants 3 rows of 3, probably each equal in size to those.

Sorry if you couldn't tell from the pictures but this is a crawlspace with only 4.5' to work with. My point here is that it wouldn't even be possible to grow with a horizontal set up here thus I HAVE to grow vertically. Case in point again, different strokes for different folks.

Before pictures

 

[DrFever]

You're right, I should convert and go to horizontal.

View Image

View Image

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Not nobody wearing shoes like miiinnnneeeeee

So you are saying that you are running vertical cause of your height restrictions ??? and that is alright by me do what works best for you but i can only guess that you are running 4000 watts ???? question you need to ask your self is it running at 100 percent efficiency did you or will you get a return of 4000 dry grams ??? Here is a grow i did while ago 18 plants 2000 watts horizontal shortys lol with old bulbs no ventilation night time temps below 60's as you can tell from the purps lol slapped together and really not taken care of
and still made just under 3 pounds So i hope your numbers are at least in that range

 

[who dat is]

600's. I don't bother weighing anything either. I know I pull better with vert than I did with horizontal by how many jars get filled. Anything beyond that just strikes me as a dick measuring contest. Props to everybody else rocking out their system and setup, whatever it may be.

*Edit* is that chemdawg dr. fever?

 

[RedBeardy5]

With growing horizontal what is the best method for yield, scrogs I'm guessing. I'm going to run a horizontal tent to see if you really get better numbers. Both argument have valid points.

 

[DrFever]

With growing horizontal what is the best method for yield, scrogs I'm guessing. I'm going to run a horizontal tent to see if you really get better numbers. Both argument have valid points.

guess it depends on size of room wattage etc anything from scrog to sog

 

[papaduc]

With growing horizontal what is the best method for yield

Filling the space properly. Whether you veg a few plants big, or a lot of plants small, is up to you.

I wouldn't use a screen to train my plants unless I had a load of floppy ones which needed support. Pinching is all you need to do to shape things exactly how you want them.

In fact screens bridge the gap in maintenance and work between flat and vert, because screens can be a pain in the ass. I think they're massively overused, mainly because people see them as the way to get a flat canopy. To me, they're messy and fiddly and restrictive.

I agree with all of the above. One thing you left out was plant count. Vert trees definitely have that advantage.

Depends on other variables, like veg time. It doesn't take many weeks of veg for one plant to yield 15oz+ on a flat grow, so 1lb plants, or 16oz, are easy to achieve.

I personally prefer working around cages than working under a large hood over a 4x4 tray.

If you can work around your plants then either method is easy really. If you're in a tent, managing a vert grow can be just as bad or worse than a flat. Space is a luxury for either grow style.

Also the cost per tray/hood/bulb/ballast goes down significantly with Vert.

I don't factor that in, because I don't think it is significant except for the initial outlay. The hood will cost you an ounce of weed every couple of years. It will save you some money on the initial spend, but that's it.

Also, I find it much easier to cool barebulbs than reflectors. The heat is literally taken away with the air. With a reflector you need to cool the reflector somehow as it traps heat. Air cooled reflectors solve this, but then now you are putting glass between your bulb and your plants, making the light even more inefficient.

Google `grostar` and be enlightened

Miro parabolics like that and the turrican, are sick for canopy coverage, and the heat's never an issue because unlike horizontally hung bulbs it's not directed down in one spot.

 

[papaduc]

I think an important factor here is strain. If you are running kushes which don't stretch AT ALL. Good luck yielding well vert. SOG will be king here no matter what. If you are running hybrids with good stretch, they can be impossible/extremely hard to contain evenly in a horizontal grow.

Then you have super branchy strains, which in a horizontal grow fill in the screen better, but in a vert grow crowd the shit out of your screen, simply due to where the light is hitting them. When you throw a branchy strain on a vert screen they explode and crowd each other out. When you have a light over them horizontally they tend to grow more toward their apical tips causing less fluff with less work. You can certainly get branchy strains to work well in Vert but you will be working you ass off constantly trimming of nodes to keep the growth where you want it.

This Sour Skunk Haze I'm pulling in ~10 days is a good example of that. It took 4 defoliations total. One in the last week of veg and 2 more in early flower, as well as a final one to take off the rest of the fans. I could even pull more fans from her at this point, but there isn't much crowding due to extra foliage so I said fuck it.

Yeah I agree with pretty much all of that. I think if you get strains which throw out long branches with not much lateral growth from them, vert can give you guaranteed yields because it's easy to simply tie a plant open, and you know that every bud down the whole stem will be solid.

Bushy plants are a vert growers nightmare.

I think if you gave me two scenarios though, have a stretchy strains in a flat grow which I had to pinch, or a bushy strain in a vert which I had to keep trained, I'd take the first option.

That's a deciding factor for me; the work involved to get basic yields of 0.7 or thereabout.

On a flat grow you can do nothing and still pull that amount of top quality bud. But do nothing on a vert grow and you can come away with figures your own mother would hate you for.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Ah right I didn't notice the low ceilings. Well I guess maybe that shoe does fit then.

You probably could do horizontal still even with 5 ft clearance just would have to train bushes.

But just judging from your room and you got 4 lights going. Looks like you're not too worried about gpw anyway and it certainly is some extra work to achieve. If I wasn't limiting myself with power consumption I suppose I'd rather just add more lights rather than do all the extra work.

 

[LSWM]

Miro parabolics like that and the turrican, are sick for canopy coverage, and the heat's never an issue because unlike horizontally hung bulbs it's not directed down in one spot.

I have a buddy that runs a 6light 6 5x5 trays all on rollers which he fits into a 15x10 rectangle which run adjustawings. He gets excellent light spread, and the heat is manageable as well.

I was looking at the new Epapillions, and they look nice. Adjustawing also came out with a double ended socket for their reflectors as well. If I had 10'+ ceilings I wonder how epapillions would do vs barebulbs hung vertically. Trees probably wouldn't turn out as well, but bushes organized in clumps I would think would be great. Hard to say if it would outyield donuts though.

5 6 plant donuts in a 10x10 room vs 5 6 plant scrog under epapillions would be a nice comparison. I'm going to be setting up shop here in a couple months at a new location and the rooms are ~12x12 so I'm really debating doing a side by side but I want to keep plant #'s low so tree rooms are looking like a winner.

 

[CannaCouture]

its funny too. because light movers suck with horizontal.. but if u have a light mover in a room vertically.. its wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better..

I used a 400w vertically on a mover.. in a 3.5x6x6 and got 1 and a half LBS off a 400 with an OLD Homedepot BULB.

Say whaaaaaaaaattttttt?????

 

[DrFever]

I would love to give horizontal another try. Can't argue with numbers and I seen some killer yields lately from some members. Been about 5 years or so since I ran a garden that way. I actually have thought hard about it since I'm in a new location now but I have a pretty small space to work with it's like 9x10 and that's for the whole op. Still trying to plan out exactly how it's gonna be set up.

Lately I've been thinking of just sticking with vert cause I can just stack and build up. I was thinking 4 x 600 in 2 stacked 4x4 tents. That would still give me space to move around and have a veg area.

Dr Fever, curious what you would do with a room that size to get the most out of it?

Sorry Scrappy didn't see the last message What would i do well either SOG or Scrog without a doubt would pack them in there and if plant count was a issue then i would Scrog IMO nothing touches scrog methods you can see it all over the net utilizing top buds to there full potential and as many growers will probably agree the buds are big dense and joined together rather then lower buds that do not always join up leaving you with small buds once stems are removed in between
5 x 10 table 4 - 600 s staggered and over lapping each other

 

[CannaCouture]

I would love to add my 2 cents. I truly feel that some strains just kill under horizontals. Then you have some strains where they don't put out huge yields, but pack in close quarters and therefore do better in vertical grows.

Yield could drive the curious. One thing I've learned from trial and error as well as following some journals, is that the yield will be dependant on strain, training, environmental control, container size, and human error.

I'm sure there are some that would agree with me that too much or too little heat can cancel your grow no matter what method you use.

The argument will call up as many different pov's as the classic "indoor vs outdoor" debate. Personally, I don't do all that great with high numbers. So, in my case, as far as indoors go, I do better shooting for 2 good sized trees per horizontal rig with your daily quarter turn. And I ain't running a bunch of rigs, cause heat is a son of a bitch in the summer.

More than that, and the process just gets away from me somehow. I understand that some of us live in more liberated states, while the rest of us can only dream. But shiiiiittttttt. If mj were decriminalized where I live like it is in other places, my back door would stay wide open. Poof. Goodbye heat!

 

[who dat is]

Is that chemdawg dr. fever?

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