Plummeting Marijuana Prices for Growers

[NEGT1]

The black market will always thrive....just the way it is, some things will never change.

This is an interesting discussion.

The amount of regulation from state and federal government is so very important here. Too much regulation keeps the black market thriving, as does too little (current time could be an example of this, "grey market"). I have to think that's a huge reason why the federal government is letting states work it out. The idea that the federal government could make a ruling on this that will legalize it in proper fashion. It's not like the black market is generally a good thing, the lack of transparency is disgusting so if legalization is done properly it benefits both individuals and the government as a whole in the idea we can have a little regulation while giving up a little to tax $ for the things we all enjoy. Roads, firemen, knowing you aren't buying food with disease, ect, ect.

Another question. Is cannabis a market that can self regulate? With the amount of money involved it seems that's not realistic. By that I mean if they made it recreational with no restriction, tax, ect, abuse would be rampant. Not necessarily from anyone in the scene now, but from big business, ect.


Back to the main question. Will the black market for cannabis, always thrive? Will regulation costs turn people back to the black market?


You'd be surprised what people pay to walk into a store and purchase something packaged nicely. As growers want to become a part of society, so do users.

 

[stasis]

As long as there is good product in those packages. More likely will not be, as in American cigarettes. Pure poison. When it could be done more organically like American Spirit, although I avoid tobacco smoke at all costs, the scenario is similar.

If taxes and red tape get too much, yup, black market it is. Maybe anyways... If we ever even get a chance to step out of the "grey market" it will be interesting.

 

[WTFisLoud]

I still believe that in our society with more and more varieties readily available at dispensaries, quality trumps all other factors including genetic rarities. For example, if you had a gram of SSH that was improperly flushed and trimmed; it would be sub-par to a properly grown and manicured "no-name" gram imho.

With this being said, I don't think anybody who is supplying dispensaries has anything to worry about provided their product is top shelf quality.

 

[bentom187]

Another question. Is cannabis a market that can self regulate? With the amount of money involved it seems that's not realistic. By that I mean if they made it recreational with no restriction, tax, ect, abuse would be rampant. Not necessarily from anyone in the scene now, but from big business, ect.


Back to the main question. Will the black market for cannabis, always thrive? Will regulation costs turn people back to the black market?


You'd be surprised what people pay to walk into a store and purchase something packaged nicely. As growers want to become a part of society, so do users.

I am glad you asked.I know this may sound crazy at first, but when you reason it out the concerns you have may be put to rest.

All markets are ones that would self regulate. It is quite intriguing when you recognize that the self interest motive or profit motive absent government coercion will work itself out to benefit the consumer otherwise they would go out of business. They need to please their customers to make money.


Also you are correct in saying that the black market will always thrive with regulatory coercion in place. Regulations drive prices upwards because it adds to the cost of production. Pricing poorer producers out of the industry and the poorer consumers will opt for the black market alternative.

I have compiled some videos to explain these basic concepts at play with examples. They are only a couple of minutes long each.

What Is Regulatory Capture?
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Consumer Protection: Government vs Market Regulation | Peter G. Klein and Robert P. Murphy
[YOUTUBEIF]GM2ZMhjyT0U[/YOUTUBEIF]

The Myth of the Free Market Cartel | by Murray N. Rothbard
[YOUTUBEIF]H6Opvlmy8i8[/YOUTUBEIF]

Thomas Sowell - The Option Destroyers
[YOUTUBEIF]XlW0Q5EeBiI[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[Ranger]

shouldn't even be a market really, should be everyone and anyone can grow their own and in time it will be this way. i'm sure those who cannot or dont want to grow their own should have a place to buy but it shouldn't have a "market" for large profit. that's the kind of thinking that got our world where it is, profit.

 

[bentom187]

Profits are a result of human interests and are the savings or expenditure of a producer, pursuing their interests. The degree of profits is a signal that a producer is doing something positive that society values and he is rewarded for doing so in a free market.
To interfere with this sends the wrong signals and distorts the producers ability to provide what the consumers need when they need it.
They are people who want to benefit their fellow man. In a free market nothing rules out charity if that is what interests that individual, or is your main concern.

 

[LEF]

I don't agree that :

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The degree of profits is a signal that a producer is doing something positive that society values and he is rewarded for doing so in a free market.[/FONT]

I don't think that degree of profit signals that someone is doing something positive

and I believe it's not related with fair rewards, sometimes it's about who's got the power, opportunity, means of production
slavery comes to mind

I think considering that some people are starving, while others are living in 20 million dollar mansions, it doesn't work. To be fair, I am willing to say, that maybe if I was living in one of those mansions I wouldn't complain. I am just getting tired of that, fight for survival, when there is so much food being thrown out everyday by grocery stores. It gets tiring, no wonder there is a mental health crisis in north america.

capitalism is a bit like organized crime

sure I can play that, eat or be eaten game

but like I said, it gets tiring and I find it a bit counter-productive

 

[bentom187]

I don't agree that :

I don't think that degree of profit signals that someone is doing something positive

Well sure it is ,if you don't do things individuals value they are not going to pay you. Especially if you do stuff that harms individuals and their property, you wont last long in a free market. However there are a number of corporate entities in business today that will never go out of business for harming society because they get government protection. See: Monsanto protection act.

and I believe it's not related with fair rewards, sometimes it's about who's got the power, opportunity, means of production
slavery comes to mind

You are the means of production and you own yourself, and you are either employed by someone or you make or do something that society values and you are self employed. Its all voluntary in a free market, so no its not slavery. Even in this society which is the polar opposite of a free market work is voluntary. It is true disabled people may be dependent on others but what arises is a market for people to be employed by providing services to them by way of charity.

So in terms of "fairness" I think keeping what you earn is fair. Today the government does steal your income with the implicit use of force to take what you have and captivity if you don't comply. That would literally be slavery.

I think considering that some people are starving, while others are living in 20 million dollar mansions, it doesn't work. To be fair, I am willing to say, that maybe if I was living in one of those mansions I wouldn't complain. I am just getting tired of that, fight for survival, when there is so much food being thrown out everyday by grocery stores. It gets tiring, no wonder there is a mental health crisis in north america.

There are always going to be poor people, but nothing in a free market would prevent real charity. In fact if the government were to leave people alone and let them keep what they earn, people would have more disposable income to give. Perhaps the employed people would reinvest their savings to be self employed and then hire the poor people. But if everyone is being robbed by government all the time ,that isn't going to happen very efficiently, if at all.

capitalism is a bit like organized crime

sure I can play that, eat or be eaten game

but like I said, it gets tiring and I find it a bit counter-productive

Crony capitalism with the force of government is organized crime. Free market capitalism is voluntary and an entity like the government is a inherent impediment to economic growth to productive individuals who can only survive by providing what society needs and wants. Government is only made up of people whom survive by lying and stealing from everyone ,and solving problems they cause.

I hope I covered the difference between a free market and crony capitalism that we have today well enough.

 

[Molocxc]

Most of the new spots are locking this game up. They're following Colorado's lead and integrating the production with the storefront. It makes it harder to get into the market without access to large amounts of capital.

I saw some plans for a spot in Illinois and it had a room labeled "cop room" and they said they have to pay a police officer's wages to sit in the grow and watch the cameras. Money is locking this thing up is what I'm seeing going on all across the country. Capitalism yaaaay!

It could put any remaining commercialimportation on the skids.

 

[stasis]

Sillinois.

Greed factor off the charts. My guess is the product still will fall short of medicinal, even with all that control and dollahs flying.

 

[DRgreenThumb84]

I need too be where ur at lol. We r getting our prices killed in FL because wat doesn't sell to dispensaries gets sent over here at the Cali prices. A year ago a pound was worth a minimum of $3200. Now, ur lucky too get $2200

 

[hush]

Every time I go home to Florida I get to see the awful shit weed that my friends down there buy for themselves, and all I can say is that if you are having trouble selling your own weed because the dispensary reject weed from Cali and Colorado is so cheap, then your weed must not be all that good. Sorry I'm just being real. Every time I go down there everyone keeps trying to offer me $400 for an ounce of my own stuff, and I have to tell them that it's not for sale. Most of my friends are disgusted by all that reject weed, and would happily pay more for better product.

I'm just saying.

 

[Allendawg]

Hasn't the weather been unfriendly there last couple years? = below average quality?

 

[Yes4Prop215]

it really all comes down to your buyers, and theres a lot of shit lowballing ass buyers out there so don't let their lowballing fuckery dictate your entire market.

for example, I'm on vacation right now in the heart of the midwest and have been hanging out with several of my friends who broker CA outdoor packs. one of them had some very good quality sour D open sun, great smell and taste, good trichome development, only complaint was that its a little more "fluffy" than most dense hardball OD packs. two brokers had the exact same flowers. one was able to charge 26 for the sour D packs which he considered a discount because he normally wants 28-3. the other broker had to sell it for 2 because he gave into the lowballing dealer. the dealer claimed it had "too much stem" and the broker was in a rush so gave into his shitty price. he paid 15 for it in CA so he still made his 500 but he could have just gone to broker B and probably gotten 22-24 for it and broker B would middled it for 26.

so now lets say broker As dealer comes on ICmag and is lke..."I'm getting cali Sour D outs for 2k in the midwest" but his lowballing price does not tell the whole story. because he's probably making extra points on it. and broker B can still charge high 2s for it.

so really, unless you know multiple brokers, dealers, etc in multiple states, than save your lowball prices to yourself. just be happy your getting a good deal and keep it to yourself. when i get a steal of a deal i don't go and brag to other growers/brokers expecting them to match it. 4-5 years back i lowballed a dumb asian commercial grower 16 for his indoor OGs because "they weren't purple" when the market value was easily 24-27 range..the grower had bought OG clones labeled as GDP and had no idea the value of OG vs Purps...i got a freaking steal and doubled up...but i didn't go to my next OG grower expecting the same price. i made my move and the next week paid regular market off another grower.

#endrant

 

[Allendawg]

It's not a true market its ghetto built on a house of cards! Dispensary owners, brokers, and hydro store owners(point of contact to growers) use internet to keep prices down. Weedmaps too if you try to warn everyone that infestations are taking place all over Cali & customers need to scope the bud 100x they will lock that poster out!

 

[photoperiodic]

True value is in the eye of the beholder. Price will be dictated by quality heard people in prison talk about how they could not get what there pot was worth on west coast this man admitted he was using semi trailers and white rhino. No tears for idiots who use outdated genetics and massive greedy methods. no he did not like my opinion some people don't if you want to grow bullshit expect to get paid bullshit or risk your ass to drive 2000 miles to fuck some more idiot

 

[Chriscrete]

3200 up to 3600 here in Western PA

 

[vividavis]

Damn I just talked to a farmer in the Santa Cruz mtns who just told me he liquidated his low quality outdoor for 500 a unit.

 

[Little Hill]

He's lucky he could even sell it. Wonder what his trim bill was like those numbers don't make for much if any profit.

 

[photoperiodic]

what unique points of view here in the armpit of IL bull shit mid grad goes for 2500
the best i can find which is actually low grad out door its 4000 lb the inbreeds do not even trim it skunk #1.this is a bad place i am moving next month