The search for a proper recovery pump..

[SneakySneaky]

so back to the head scratching post.....upon coming back to the unit the following day, i discovered manchester tanks f*cked up big time. i tried to do the test run and nothing came out of the liquid line, after disconnection and attempting to clear the line ice cicles shot out of the liquid port which indicated serious water contamination and it had leaked almost 30 lbs!!!!

the tank was frozen in dry ice so after my best "deadliest catch" impression, beating a barrel of ice with a rubber mallet to break up the ice, the tank was removed and turned upside down to let the water collect and be purged through the gas port.

this is the nasty rusty contaminants that came out of a brand new tank from manchester.

 

[icdog]

Any idea why that happened?

 

[Chonkski]

Wtf manchester

 

[SneakySneaky]

a gigantic thank you to whoever called AOP and started talking extractions to them. They are no longer going to be warrantying anything that has to do with extractions, they're replacing the compressor this one time for me and anything after that they want nothing to do with us anymore. As i mentioned at the end of july, if you dont know what your doing or talking about dont call these companies because your fucking it up for everyone else. this is an exerpt from the technical guys

"We are getting you a new compressor under warranty, however, the operation of this compressor is outside of normal parameters. We will not be doing anymore of them under warranty....…This unit is not intended to be used the way you are using it."

I have never once mentioned anything to these people outside of a specific custom made unit that has never been described on icmag so for them to lump me into the extractor category means somebody called and spilled the beans, to that person i thank you so much for now rendering my 3 gast pumps completely unrepairable as well as the other customers pumps that cannot be returned for warranty, thanks so much.

For future reference, please leave the technical stuff to the wolves. $2000 rant over sorry guys its frustrating as hell when someone spoils the party for the rest of us, like the guy who lit the burning man early a few years back.

Any idea why that happened?

wayward wolf checked the 2 other tanks that were shipped with mine, and his 2 unused tanks were shipped with pressure instead of under vacuum, so its possible that they had sat for a while and the humidity inside started to rust the tank. if only water would have leaked into the tank there wouldnt have been that rusty colored contaminant....head scratcher for sure.

 

[SneakySneaky]

Upon further inquiry, the tanks were meant to be pressurized as they are back filled with nitrogen... I'm looking into a possible source of contamination.

 

[icdog]

Does this mean the gast is not a good option now?

 

[SneakySneaky]

thats a catch 22, just cause the company wont warranty the pumps anymore doesnt mean we cant rebuild them, its just more costly and a gigantic hassle to have a machine be rendered inoperable for a long time, not generating income, or meeting patients quotas/output expectations.

what it definately means is that the technical dept threw the towel in on helping me get this pump redesigned with an inlet flow meter so now thats all on us to figure out so we can even use them in the future.

the techincal specs of the gast pump and charts were done assuming the pump was running under atmospheric pressure, it is not designed to handle constant inlet pressure and thats why the compressor went out, were working on fixing this so that the pump can truly shine and be used to its fullest.... cause when its going full speed it puts the appion to shame.

 

[Rickys bong]

Sneaky, all steel tanks are uncoated on the inside. I take the valve off any new tank and shine a light inside to see how much crud needs to be cleaned out.

The bare steel is very susceptible to corrosion. The tiny nylon line that feeds the liquid port will also plug easily. Fill with some ball bearings, a quart of acetone and agitate real well should loosen most stuff. I know, shaking a large tank isn't easy.

I've used the gast pumps for some demanding applications, describe your troubles and maybe I can help.

Peace, RB

 

[Loc Dog]

Sneaky, all steel tanks are uncoated on the inside. I take the valve off any new tank and shine a light inside to see how much crud needs to be cleaned out.

The bare steel is very susceptible to corrosion. The tiny nylon line that feeds the liquid port will also plug easily. Fill with some ball bearings, a quart of acetone and agitate real well should loosen most stuff. I know, shaking a large tank isn't easy.

I've used the gast pumps for some demanding applications, describe your troubles and maybe I can help.

Peace, RB

I used to (1960's) take scuba lessons. Never completely empty the tank, to avoid moisture. They also had plastic liners, to prevent rust. Valve is taken off, liner inserted, hanging out top a little, and valve re-installed.

 

[Gray Wolf]

We have three central concerns using the Gast pumps.

The first is that we have some minor technical issues to resolve regarding inlet pressure on the Gast, the second is that like most of the rest of the recovery pumps currently being used in our application, the Gast really isn't rated for NEMA 7 flammable service, and the third is that we've now scared Gast.

I have no doubt that a demand propane regulator, such as is used on a propane fueled engine or scuba tank, would resolve the inlet pressure issue. I'm currently looking for something in stainless. Perhaps you know of something that might be suitable Ricky B?

Because of item two, we most certainly continue to look for a more perfect solution, and the Haskel solves it for commercial applications, but doesn't work for most smaller operations, due to compressor cost. We've found other expensive solutions, but are still working on a good one for us'ns poor folks working under a canopy in our back yards.

Hee, hee, hee, while brainstorming the conundrum, it occurred to me that a green solution might be a double rod pneumatic cylinder, with PTFE piston seals, and a set of PTFE seated ball check valves in each head, facing opposite directions, so that as you cycled the rod in and out, each side of the double rod cylinder sucked in in one direction and pumped out in the other. The cylinder would pump air moving in both directions.

Now place a bicycle on a stand and replace the rear wheel with a wheel that you can attach a pivoting eccentric link like that used on a steam locomotive, so that when the wheel was rotated, the cylinder rod was cycled back and forth.

Snicker, snark, snort, or attach it to an electric motor or rear wheel of a VW bug, but you get the idea. The solution may be simple, because it is after all, just a compressor, the first of which was probably a animal bladder, evolving into a bellows.

A high volume, lower velocity pump would exhibit less wear than a high speed one that gets hot, exacerbating wear and heating up the butane.

The last issue, I have no solution for. Gast is either interested in being a player, or not. The profit potential is high, but so is the liability, and it sounds like they've been skeered off. We've fielded 5 Gasts so far, with SS's being the first in and the only one showing distress so far.

Also the one that we learned what makes them stall out when running full speed, soooo it may not have been purdy inside.

 

[Chonkski]

http://www.xtractix.com/refrigerant-recovery-machines-are-poisoning-the-cannabis-industry/

Wish you could've seen the thread started on this GW, although I see it got taken down with only a few viewers, and before your morning icmag time
It was just a copy and past of the page linked above.

Please tell me what you think of this marketing approach that these people are taking? They could be the murderers of AOP tech, and the rest of our pump resources.

I have my fingers crossed for a solution within the next few months! Times seem to be getting more and more stressful from every direction for extractors..

 

[binaryfission]

http://www.xtractix.com/refrigerant-recovery-machines-are-poisoning-the-cannabis-industry/

Wish you could've seen the thread started on this GW, although I see it got taken down with only a few viewers, and before your morning icmag time
It was just a copy and past of the page linked above.

Please tell me what you think of this marketing approach that these people are taking? They could be the murderers of AOP tech, and the rest of our pump resources.

I have my fingers crossed for a solution within the next few months! Times seem to be getting more and more stressful from every direction for extractors..

WOW. Who is funding that? Who benefits?

 

[HighStateToke]

WOW. Who is funding that? Who benefits?

Read the very bottom of the link, they were promoting their passive extractors which are soon to come out.

I am guessing that is why the thread was deleted??

 

[jdee]

Uses “Thermopumping” to Remove Solvent...cool, but anyone with an active closed loop can make it into a passive closed loop system if they wish. I wonder what temp they recommend on the collection pot.

 

[flatslabs]

They are also using a photo from the user here "PenZenMaster" for their picture of the Appion G5 with a broken piston.

So unless he gave them permission to use his photo, I would send them a c&d / copyright notice.

 

[SkyHighLer]

It's an attitude problem, the guy isn't coming from the sunny side in his presentation, and such wicked timing... besides, it's just plain spam.

I hope they don't have enough marketing funds to advertise in High Times, etc., it's going to be bad enough with the social media sites jumping on this.

 

[mofeta]

Who these guys are, and their motivation in writing the article, is irrelevant in the consideration of its substance.

So you guys all think that refrigerant pumps are suited to this application?

That the loop is not exposed to truly toxic compounds in the pump?

Wow, I disagree vehemently.

You can hand product made with a refrigerant pump to a sick person and say "I guarantee that this product is safe and free of contaminants." ?

I'd like to see some test results from some pumped BHO, where they were looking for actual toxic substances, starting with the ones known to be present in the pump. Checking for residual butane? WTF? Absurd. I am almost jaded enough to believe that this was actual subterfuge to distract from real danger posed by actual toxins.

It is not just the pumps, though.

Another elephant in the BHO room is the subject of naturally occurring toxins. There are mycotoxins that are dangerous in low parts per BILLION concentrations. They come from fungi commonly found on weed. Who has shown that these compounds, when present in the raw material, are not concentrated along with the goods?

The target compounds we are after are very safe, medicinal. I consume very large quantities of BHO on an ongoing basis. I love it. I make it myself. I go through considerable trouble to make sure it is as clean as possible. I encourage other people to consume BHO if they think it is appropriate for them. I wish that super high quality, clean BHO was legal, available in infinite supply, and cheaper than dirt. But it has to be clean.


I see what I feel to be a willful negligence on this matter in this community that brings to mind the universally vilified "Big XXXX" (tobacco, oil, pharma, etc.). The American consumer does not take kindly to this type of treatment. The backlash could be severe.

The tragedy here is that the public will have a hard time grasping that it is poor practice that is dangerous, not the oil. Recall the banning of tryptophan supplements after people were sickened by contaminated batches from Japan.

I feel this issue is a good litmus test to determine who it is that really has a truly fiduciary interest in the well-being of the consumers. Or at least of those lucid and self-interested enough to avoid committing serious torts.

 

[Gray Wolf]

http://www.xtractix.com/refrigerant-recovery-machines-are-poisoning-the-cannabis-industry/

Wish you could've seen the thread started on this GW, although I see it got taken down with only a few viewers, and before your morning icmag time
It was just a copy and past of the page linked above.

Please tell me what you think of this marketing approach that these people are taking? They could be the murderers of AOP tech, and the rest of our pump resources.

I have my fingers crossed for a solution within the next few months! Times seem to be getting more and more stressful from every direction for extractors..

Your rucky day on wishes bro, as another brother saved it for my enlightenment and response.

Two issues to discuss. The first is the correctness of the allegations, and except for the part about the recovery machines that most folks are using not being explosion proof (NEMA 7), it is a grain of fact mixed with fantasy. The person writing the article appeared to be highly creative or be repeating things that they misunderstood and elaborated on.

The second issue is motivation. I'm not able to look into the hearts of men, but I do note that they are pushing their own passive extractor design and their extreme liberties with the facts was a serious turnoff. Is their product not good enough to compete without denigrating?

 

[icdog]

Check their fb page
https://www.facebook.com/connoisseur.concentrates

They split the thc atom! Must have found it on the island of stability.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Who these guys are, and their motivation in writing the article, is irrelevant in the consideration of its substance.

So you guys all think that refrigerant pumps are suited to this application?

That the loop is not exposed to truly toxic compounds in the pump?

Wow, I disagree vehemently.

You can hand product made with a refrigerant pump to a sick person and say "I guarantee that this product is safe and free of contaminants." ?

I'd like to see some test results from some pumped BHO, where they were looking for actual toxic substances, starting with the ones known to be present in the pump. Checking for residual butane? WTF? Absurd. I am almost jaded enough to believe that this was actual subterfuge to distract from real danger posed by actual toxins.

It is not just the pumps, though.

Another elephant in the BHO room is the subject of naturally occurring toxins. There are mycotoxins that are dangerous in low parts per BILLION concentrations. They come from fungi commonly found on weed. Who has shown that these compounds, when present in the raw material, are not concentrated along with the goods?

The target compounds we are after are very safe, medicinal. I consume very large quantities of BHO on an ongoing basis. I love it. I make it myself. I go through considerable trouble to make sure it is as clean as possible. I encourage other people to consume BHO if they think it is appropriate for them. I wish that super high quality, clean BHO was legal, available in infinite supply, and cheaper than dirt. But it has to be clean.


I see what I feel to be a willful negligence on this matter in this community that brings to mind the universally vilified "Big XXXX" (tobacco, oil, pharma, etc.). The American consumer does not take kindly to this type of treatment. The backlash could be severe.

The tragedy here is that the public will have a hard time grasping that it is poor practice that is dangerous, not the oil. Recall the banning of tryptophan supplements after people were sickened by contaminated batches from Japan.

I feel this issue is a good litmus test to determine who it is that really has a truly fiduciary interest in the well-being of the consumers. Or at least of those lucid and self-interested enough to avoid committing serious torts.

Folks who desire to be taken seriously, are expected to stick closer to the facts.

It is fair to say that the oil less recovery pumps that most folks are using are not explosion proof.

It is fair to say that running them dry wears out the seals. Dry means under vacuum, where there is little butane present to lubricate the seals.

The statements about pumping in toxins, requires an explanation of where those toxins originate from, and wild exaggerations of both the magnitude and the significance pretty much labels the source as unreliable.

As far as residual butane, and mycotoxins, they most certainly exist, but you are in luck. There are tests for them, as well as standards set for legally dispensed cannabis medical product, so things aren't as wildly out of balance as they may appear to you.

Neither has anything to do with close loop recycling with pumps. Residual butane is removed is subsequent processing and mycotoxins come from extracting moldy material.