The Search for Trip Weed

[Infinitesimal]

W


Great to hear someone is trying! Do you have the option of growing a sizeable number of plants? Man, I would love to be able to do that.

compared to most people now a days, I think I am running "decent' numbers 28 seedlings, not ideal, but these seem to be pretty stable by todays standards and since these are near True F1's using a pure unworked exceptional specimen from a '72 Guerrero population as the maternal genetics donor and Dj's F4 Blueberry breeding stock as the paternal genetic donors... the F2 populations is where I think the large numbers will really come into play.

that said, I will most likely be getting more of the F1's too and do couple different F2 batches... if I can get ahold of more in time that is.

7/22

7/30

here is a link to the smoke reports on the strain, even daily smokers of strains like OG and Chem etc report not being able to finish pipe bowls and pinner joints of the stiff... while most plants don't seem hallucinogenic per se most reports include some type of quasi psychedelic/trippy qualities to the effects mostly of the cognitive/perceptional kind... as opposed to seeing things that aren't really there. though a few do report CEV's and mild OEV's.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224956

it is one of my favorite threads to read through, it keeps me so pumped up for the possibility in this cross.

Peace,
Infinitesmal

 

[pinkus]

What I find interesting and promising is that there are quite a few independents out there, doing the work diligently, keeping "the good stuff" while many view it as impossible or improbable or simply too much a pain in the ass. It's out there, next to that shack in ark. or ok. or Bogota. Some find the forums and spread the word (and seed) and some leave beans to be found by their sons and daughters. Doing the do, day in day out. It would be sweet if you joined us Mostly Me.

 

[bushweed]

I'm salivating Infinitesimal!

You're correct about the reputation of Chimera's HMxBBs, they have the most consistent reports of top shelf effects of anything on the market. It helps if you know how to grow them, which you obviously do.

 

[Infinitesimal]

thanks bushweed, I have an understanding on how to grow them, but this will be my first grow of something this close to pure sativa I think... my previous longest flowering strains were like 70% sativa 12 week haze hybrids and they weren't nearly as wild growing (except for the rare actual WILD pheno, which I stupidly culled not knowing better at the time). I don't doubt I will have success but I also don't doubt that it will be a learning experience, one I am greatly looking forward to.

I know right, this is real connoisseur shit, I feel privileged to have found such a gem.

in the burgeoning ever so legal cannabis industry/market I predict a shift back to older genetics, hashish and small batch connoisseur quality long flowering sativas happening and taking a larger market share than is currently available. And I look forward to that day

 

[pinkus]

Those are gorgeous

 

[Infinitesimal]

hey pinkus,

and they are significantly larger already!

 

[pinkus]

I was going to ask how many days ago that was LOL This is like whisks on a snare drum, soon it will be a timpani roll building into a full on Keith Moon assault but instead of sticks branches hahahahahahahahha

​

...and yes I've been smoking my XmeX cross lol


Sorry TB, kinda drifted into this thread... thought I was in the Mexican Highlands (thread)

 

[Infinitesimal]

fuck yeah

I wish I had some good Mexi myself right now, I'd be rockin' out right there with ya!


EDIT head over to the HM x BB thread and I'll post a side by side of the two pics so you can see their growth

 

[ThaiBliss]

Hi TB, how did you rate the Original Haze compared to Neville's Haze?

It's hard to remember, because it was so long ago. What I do remember is that the special freaky Neville's Haze was an out of this world all time great. I don't mean the best I ever grew, it was the best I ever smoked. How fortunate is that!

When I first grew the Original, I thought I had found the real deal like I was smoking as a kid. It was by far the most beautiful of the three. It looked awesome and old school. After smoking, I had no qualms or hesitation to kill it off. I don't remember what I had at the time to compare it to, but it must have been much better. Whatever I did have, it paled in comparison to the Neville's Haze freak. The Neville's freak was the very last seed I had in all three packs.

I notice the last decade's Mr Nice and Sensi Seeds offerings of Neville's Hz don't garner the sort of reviews that were seen 20 years ago. For instance there's some guys in Holland who hold a Neville's Hz cut bought from Nevil in 1990 that they say is too strong to smoke regularly. They also hold a NL5Hz cut from the same era that is their favorite and sounds a lot like your freak Oaxacan/Thai pheno. What's interesting is nothing they've crossed these cuts to over 20 years has produced anything close to the power of the originals.

I bought those 3 packs of seeds sometime in the range of 1995 to 1998.

Which seems to support the theory of entropy affecting the potency of progeny from breeding parents (I'm thinking Sensi and Mr Nice) kept over many years. Anyone have an alternate theory to explain the seeming deterioration of past champion strains?

I should mention that the paternal grandmother of the Thai stick x NHz x MM - NHz#21 has garnered a couple of rave reviews from posters who cite it as the strongest, most electric high they've experienced. It's a cut I held for a while, but must admit more partiality for the Thais, Oaxacans and MMs, here's a dried shot...
View Image

I know Raco keeps a cut of Tom's OHz, which is definitely saying something, but haven't read many startling reports of people finding the one in 20 lately.

Gorgeous bud! That rivals the pictures of Raco's buds. Raco has the most consistently beautiful examples of perfectly cured buds I have come across.

Speaking of Raco, if he has had that cut of Tom's Hill Haze for a long time, perhaps we can get him to chime in about the entropy theory. For me, I have not noticed this. Sadly, it may be because I have never held onto any of my great cuts for more than about 5 years, at most. I've always lost them to my own stupidity or tragedy. I hope that is a lesson to those who hoard the good stuff. It is only a matter of time before you lose it. Better to share with everyone, so it is easy to find again, or replace with another. "i see this search for trip weed as a collaborative project" - Idiit

This next season I'll be running some pure Haze from Charlie. I'm not sure if he'll release them, I think he finds it's pretty hard to make a living from selling NLD (sativa) seeds, when everyone wants Kush, and other breeders sell his strains without any remuneration.

Hey TB, I appreciate your quest very much, it's one of the few threads I check regularly; and I think you're the right man for the job with your experience and openness, and there's always something interesting - a rare Oaxacan, a tray of Guerrero BBs, a Papua New Guinea x Haitian. If I had the opportunity to grow 6 of these rare strains at a time with a quick turnover, I'd be confident to find something to make me happy. And having some of that Bangi Hz turned into hash would make me very happy.

Thanks Bushy, that is very generous of you. I have to say that I believe your posts are a big part of the draw. You have a lot of knowledge to share, your pictures of your grows are awe inspiring, and you have been very generous in your support in many ways.

Everyone else is contributing greatly. Even MostlyMe is spicing things up with some fair questions, and prompting some great posts from others. Moderation is the key though.

Just coming back to the dutch guys with the old school haze cuts. One important thing they've noticed about their two cuts, is that even with them being clones, they are much more vigorous in growth than any of the dozens of haze or haze hybrids they've tried breeding them with. So this is something to look for when you're searching for powerful, psychedelic NLD strains - extreme vigor...

I know I do.

I think the great ones are predominately from the tropics, which tend to be faster growing.


Bob Green - I agree that if it becomes legal, and it removes most of the money to be made, then quality will rise to the top of priorities for growers and breeders.

MostlyMe - Another good point. I have grown a bit less in the last 10 years, and I don't hang as much in the same circles. But it used to be that I would smoke a great one every year, and be able to wrangle one every few years. So I strongly feel that less availability of the real good genetics is a definite factor.

Pinkus - Thanks for helping to try and keep things positive. You cracked me up with the comment about wondering if we went to the same high school.


I agree that there are pockets of people dedicated to the refined trippy highs. I would hope for it to become the mainstream. Then I could start a thread dedicated to saving the hash strains.

Do you guys save gifs to use for when the occasion presents itself? Too funny.

Gry - Thanks for contributing. I agree that mood and setting are factors in all hallucinogens.

As stated by me and everyone else, Bushy's pictures are often "bell ringers".

JayJayFrank - "we are drawing a map" I admire you being able to say so much, with so few words.


Infinitesimal - Nice work. You should have started this thread. I don't know many working as hard towards the goal.

Keep on Tripping,

ThaiBliss

 

[bushweed]

It's hard to remember, because it was so long ago. What I do remember is that the special freaky Neville's Haze was an out of this world all time great. I don't mean the best I ever grew, it was the best I ever smoked. How fortunate is that!

I am romantic enough (meaning I am not so bound by the ephemeral dictates of current science) to believe that the grower plays an integral role in affecting the outcome of his crop, not solely through their best horticultural efforts, but through the positive vibes he/she creates through their consciousness. IME intelligent, loving, generous spirits grow far better ganja than selfish A-holes given the same genetics and growing practices. That's why a lot of the best plants I've encountered in 25 years were grown by mostly me?

Speaking of Raco, if he has had that cut of Tom's Hill Haze for a long time, perhaps we can get him to chime in about the entropy theory. For me, I have not noticed this.

I was referring to the diminished potency of the seeds made from the parent cuts, rather than the potency of the cuts themselves. I mean to me, this deterioration must be occurring. Or breeders are lying about the parents they possess. For example, if there are dozens of reports (like yours/ like OJD's incomparable SSH) of plants from the late 80s/ early 90s that were the strongest/best strains smokers have ever had, emanating from the progeny of parents that Sensi Seeds and Mr Nice still claim to have, then where are the contemporary reports of these exceptional plants?

They simply don't exist. As such only two explanations are possible:

A: They're lying
B: A plant's capacity to pass on the genetic information which determines high potency diminishes over time.

They are both unpalatable choices.

One day soon, Sam's going to release his various pure hazes to the world, and breeders and chuckers will be crossing them to their favorite cuts and everyone will have an opportunity to grow those once in a lifetime plants you describe.

Except, and I hate to be a stick in the mud here, but anyone have an explanation for why that's not occurring now with with his seeds?

Entropy theory?

If this keeps up in a hundred years cannabis will have no potency.

Hehe, there are people out there who believe the push for CBD rich plants is a conspiracy to effect this.

 

[Infinitesimal]

in regard to sensi and other similar dutch banks...

I have believed for a long time, that they didn't keep clones and just used filial stock generation after generation... breeding in warehouses and greenhouses, not the tropics.

and without that environmental influence, the best specimens likely failed to express themselves and then were not included in the breeding program... this is how epigenetic factors can effect the breeding. So over time and successive generations it becomes bland and lose the special characteristics that the original old world genetics imparted onto it in the earlier generations.

 

[ThaiBliss]

I have not had successes where I have crossed a male to a very good parent, and then to another very good parent, and got a very good outcome indoors, but I have in my outdoor line. Then I took those results and found a very good, F2 lets call it, while indoor. But never found a good F3 indoor in successive indoor breeding results.

This may support the idea that bright natural sunshine is necessary to maintain genetic potency. However, I use much more light, and more UV and blue end of the spectrum indoors these days. If this is true, then it may be possible to bring a weakened strain with good traits back to life by growing those genetics outdoors again.

I was not testing the males by breeding them and evaluating the children. The males were only selected randomly, or by secondary traits such as vigor, aroma, etc.. I think this is the most difficult aspect, and probably the weak link in most breeding programs.

Then again, I've never claimed to be a good breeder. If I was, then I wouldn't be so obsessed with "The Search..."

ThaiBliss

 

[idiit]

It's hard to remember, because it was so long ago. What I do remember is that the special freaky Neville's Haze was an out of this world all time great. I don't mean the best I ever grew, it was the best I ever smoked. How fortunate is that!

^ yeah! please tell a little about the high effects of that one tb.

bushweed, you shouldn't have brought out my woo woo side.

I am romantic enough (meaning I am not so bound by the ephemeral dictates of current science) to believe that the grower plays an integral role in affecting the outcome of his crop, not solely through their best horticultural efforts, but through the positive vibes he/she creates through their consciousness. IME intelligent, loving, generous spirits grow far better ganja than selfish A-holes given the same genetics and growing practices. That's why a lot of the best plants I've encountered in 25 years were grown by mostly me?

^^ bushweed

Scientist Proves DNA Can Be Reprogrammed by Words and Frequencies

The Russian biophysicist and molecular biologist Pjotr Garjajev and his colleagues also explored the vibrational behavior of the DNA. [For the sake of brevity I will give only a summary here. For further exploration please refer to the appendix at the end of this article.] The bottom line was: “Living chromosomes function just like solitonic/holographic computers using the endogenous DNA laser radiation.” This means that they managed for example to modulate certain frequency patterns onto a laser ray and with it influenced the DNA frequency and thus the genetic information itself. Since the basic structure of DNA-alkaline pairs and of language (as explained earlier) are of the same structure, no DNA decoding is necessary.

One can simply use words and sentences of the human language! This, too, was experimentally proven! Living DNA substance (in living tissue, not in vitro) will always react to language-modulated laser rays and even to radio waves, if the proper frequencies are being used.

http://www.collective-evolution.com...can-be-reprogrammed-by-words-and-frequencies/

Cell biologist Glen Rein … and IHM Research Director Rollin McCraty conducted a series of experiments in the early 1990s involving DNA and intentionally generated emotions. A decade later interest in these experiments persisted. After numerous requests, McCraty summarized their data and published the results of the research in 2003 in a brief report titled Modulation of DNA Conformation by Heart-Focused Intention.

"The results provide experimental evidence to support the hypothesis that aspects of the DNA molecule can be altered through intentionality," Rein and McCraty wrote. "To our knowledge, this study was the first to correlate specific electrophysiological modes with the ability to cause changes in a biological target (DNA) external from the body. The data indicate that when individuals are in a heart-focused, loving state and in a more coherent mode of physiological functioning, they have a greater ability to alter the conformation (shape or structure) of DNA."

http://www.heartmath.org/templates/.../2012/winter/emotions-can-change-your-dna.php

The DNA Is Changing - Quantum Unlimited
www.quantumunlimited.org/vem/articles.../1593-dna-is-changing.html
DNA CAN BE CHANGED BY SOUND PATTERNS -- INCLUDING SPOKEN LANGUAGE ... Namely, the mind of the observer could be affecting the DNA by what they ... for ages that our body is programmable by language, words and thought.

DNA changes according to thoughts and feelings ...
www.encognitive.com › ... › Future of Health: Trends, Genetics...
"An experiment was conducted with DNA to determine if thoughts can affect DNA. DNA was placed in a container; it was discovered that the DNA changed its ...

there is also a lot of posts and scientific evidence that thought energies can affect the structure of water.

it's the energy behind our thoughts, words, actions that is believed to be the catalyst.

google: dna can change over time. link posted below.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=dna can change over time

 

[MostlyMe]

compared to most people now a days, I think I am running "decent' numbers 28 seedlings, not ideal, but these seem to be pretty stable by todays standards and since these are near True F1's using a pure unworked exceptional specimen from a '72 Guerrero population as the maternal genetics donor and Dj's F4 Blueberry breeding stock as the paternal genetic donors... the F2 populations is where I think the large numbers will really come into play.

Very interesting, but why bring in blueberry? I don't know much about breeding, but I'd be scared to ruin the sativa genes.

It would be sweet if you joined us Mostly Me.

I already joined you, sort of! Currently my main interest is growing weed with a very clear high, but I am under the impression that trippy weed is often also clear. It is no coincidence that TB is screening Bangi Haze, and I am also preparing to grow that strain (still too hot here indoors).

That said, I don't like to focus on a single aspect. I like the whole cannabis universe, highs and aroma's and all. I love a great sativa, but wouldn't want to go without a good indica when the mood strikes. So I do grow a lot of strains that will never be trippy, and anyway being a small-time grower like TB, I don't think I can contribute much.

But I do like exceptional, and I hate the lazy commercial crap. So in that respect I am very much joining you!

in the burgeoning ever so legal cannabis industry/market I predict a shift back to older genetics, hashish and small batch connoisseur quality long flowering sativas happening and taking a larger market share than is currently available. And I look forward to that day

I agree. It just wasn't profitable enough to break the law and grow the quality (and lower yielding) stuff, but that could change now.

http://www.collective-evolution.com...can-be-reprogrammed-by-words-and-frequencies/



http://www.heartmath.org/templates/.../2012/winter/emotions-can-change-your-dna.php

there is also a lot of posts and scientific evidence that thought energies can affect the structure of water.

it's the energy behind our thoughts, words, actions that is believed to be the catalyst.

google: dna can change over time. link posted below.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=dna can change over time

Oh dear lord no. This is pure pseudoscience, let's not go there.

 

[I wood]

Oh dear lord no. This is pure pseudoscience, let's not go there.

This is a hilarious statement, wonderful irony.


This thread is what I needed to join, thank you Thaibliss
I'm not the forum joining type, but have spent 25 years looking for the best non couch lock strains.
The two keepers I've found are both from willyjack seeds in 1999
Haze x chronic & Nebula x blueberry.
Been growing these for 15 years waiting for something as good or better.
Recently ran into Malawi gold and Colombian black, these will be used to make my own crosses as well as more of the same to keep.
Also in the plan is to cross Bodhi seeds silver lotus with silver mountain to see what haze phenos can be found.
I have found this thread very inspiring and motivational, thanks to all who have participated.

 

[ThaiBliss]

Greetings,

Idiit - I believe I must have gone on and on about that here, and on many other threads. But, when I'm in the mood and have time, I'll consider this an open opportunity to do it again, soon.

MostlyMe - It's official... you are one of us. You will love Bangi Haze. It is very clear, euphoric, and motivational. But, look out for the part that I call trippy. As the high hits, feel the volume on your ears go up. It seems to just open up your ears, like a slow, smooth turn of the stereo volume control.

I Wood - Welcome. Please feel free to post pictures and descriptions of your Willy Jack strain. I've got some very old Haze x Early Girl that I have always wanted to sprout from about that timeframe, or a bit earlier.

ThaiBliss

 

[Infinitesimal]

Very interesting, but why bring in blueberry? I don't know much about breeding, but I'd be scared to ruin the sativa genes.

Blueberry genetics is mostly made of Chocolate Thai, Highland Thai and Highland Oaxacan Gold, and in the best examples provides a nice bell ringing clear high in it's own right. as well as adding modern qualities like resin gland density/overall resin production, it also provides "some" level of tameness to the cross, otherwise... the HM female used is a real deal landrace first generation plant grown from seed found in buds picked from geurrero fields 40 years ago, meaning, if grown pure, one would have to start thousands of seeds like the traditional farmers of yore did, in order for us to find plants that we deem to be modern quality keepers with the Old Old school tastes and effects... if they could even be found back in traditional fields of broadcast seeded cannabis, to the level of quality found in the HM x BB.

I didn't make the cross, (Chimera did) but I believe the main intent was to re invigorate the BB line using the Guerrero... factoring its quality and the fact of it being a highland mexican variety similar to Highland Oaxacan (making the two lines almost related, distantly, which is almost Ideal). And DJ's F4 breeding stock has been proven time and time again.

Un-worked landrace genes are very strong, and since the BB is a mostly heirloom sativa bred by a... clear headed sativa pot snob... I'm not worried about the BB having a negative effect on the guerrero and in fact from the reports, I know it to be the opposite. Plus I will be looking through F2's and F3's etc. and with this being the kind of F1 it is, (not all are created equal, most market place "F1's" aren't... a true F1 is a cross between 2 true breeding strains, traditionally of Pure Sativa x Pure Indica origins... otherwise its just another filial generation of "mut" cannabis, in a sense.) with proper selection, these traits should continue and become more frequent into the F3/F4 generations... and hopefully outcrosses as well.

 

[satva]

Highland Mexican smoking good!

Highland Mexican smoking good!



Smoke / vaporization report on Highland Mexican / Blueberry (HMBB). The pheno represents the hybrid 50% - 50% 13 weeks - 14 weeks flowering. I ran from seed and two clone runs, and its easier indoors from clones. Cured for 8 months. Wispy haze like flower stalks.

The HMBB fragrance during flowering is skunky. The flowers predominant smell is lime, then floral / apple blossoms. The predominate characteristic of the high is head high felt from around the eyes. Energy is expansive from the chest to the top of the head. My heart rate is increasing and the high is excellent for all outdoor activities, hiking, biking, swimming. The energy flow is perfect for gardening, yoga, and enjoying the great outdoors.

The HMBB high has a rolling vibration, waves of energy, and the increased heart rate are psychedelic. The high is euphoric, has a nice energy flow that's magical at times. Awareness is heightened, colors are brighter, the sky is bluer, trailing images, and flashes out of the corners of my eyes - music sounds better. Its a creative free flowing energy.

The high does not increase mental activity. Thoughts and energy flow like a river. Not trippy. I associate tripping with an intensified or increased mental activity with chaos. HMBB is a softer high feeling euphoric and expansive - sensory perceptions are intensified and psychedelic.

The mental images I have from the 1975 Highland Mexican high is that the sky gets bigger and bluer and yet so expansive you could reach out and touch the pure white clouds. The Highland Guerrero phenotypes will do the same. This 50%-50% phenotype is softer, quite a bit softer than Meao Thai phenotypes from Destroyer. Destroyer (Meao Thai pheno) high is cleaner and more cerebral than Highland Mexican.

This summer HMBB is my favorite ~ feel good euphoric.

PS> The one joint I smoked from the leaf of the Guerrero male was felt immediately in the crown chakra, like good 1975 Highland Mexican.

 

[Infinitesimal]

the crown chakra, that is a nice feeling.

most of my hmbb's are smelling skunky, but a few are overpowered by fragrant sour wood like cedar or something really strong and really nice.

anyone have any experience with that smell/taste profile, and good ole Sativas?

It doesn't mean anything concrete but these plants definitely have different odors than most hybrids and indica types... like my thais smell like citrus and christmas trees with some cat piss... again none are in flowering yet but the power and uniqueness to the odor is awesome.

 

[bushweed]

most of my hmbb's are smelling skunky, but a few are overpowered by fragrant sour wood like cedar or something really strong and really nice.

anyone have any experience with that smell/taste profile, and good ole Sativas?

That cedar bouquet describes the Oaxacan I'm familiar with and I think I've read Charlie describe his Oaxacan79 in such terms. I remember DJ Shorts saying that a good highland Mexican was the benchmark for connoisseur cannabis, I think the unique terpenes and aromas contribute significantly to this. I remember the first time I smoked a Oaxacan was late at night and I just laid there thinking how nice it was to breathe! Here's a Oaxacan I grew a few years back that had the cedar smell, with contrasting overripe tropical fruit notes...