Snauseberry
Member
better drainage, more air, and your roots wont stick out of the bottom and possibly rest in dried up nutrients.
Why not?
Overwatering? Again?!?!??!
- Thread starter merkaba
- Start date
Mrs. Bubble
Member
If your going to do perlite you have the right idea with 60/20.
Mrs. Bubble
Member
60/40*
BlackBuds
Member
If you're worried about over watering, go by weight not appearance. If you want to be precise weigh the plant with completely saturated medium. Then you know how much water you need to add when checking the dry weight.
Personally I would not use perlite, go straight coco and always keep it moist. The more you water the more oxygen your roots will get.
Personally I would not use perlite, go straight coco and always keep it moist. The more you water the more oxygen your roots will get.
if youre going to add perlite it should be mixed evenly so that there are no dry spots.
to properly amend it you want enough so that the pieces of perlite/rock all touch each other
the bottoms of the pots should be kept moist at all times, in fact, the entire pot should be kept moist at all times, evenly. thats why blumats work so well when dialed
to properly amend it you want enough so that the pieces of perlite/rock all touch each other
the bottoms of the pots should be kept moist at all times, in fact, the entire pot should be kept moist at all times, evenly. thats why blumats work so well when dialed
Snauseberry
Member
Missed this the first time around. Im not questioning the writing, but its for soil. It would be the same for coco too?
I only say to use the perlite at the bottom because it helped my overwatering problem. I guess it could have been something else that helped?
Seems that the gods wanted me to help you since i found this thread. I'm a noob to coco also but i've been where you are and i have the solution for me, might work for you too. first off i'm using a mix of coco perlite and ewc, (someone called it) called cocoganics. so watering all the time in coco is not a good idea, even in straight coco i find watering all the time is not a good idea either.
whats going on here i think is that people confuse "water as much as you want" and "can't overwater coco" this is all BULLSHIT. you best believe you can overwater coco.
you see those really thick roots in your pot? those are water roots. the reason they seem to be horizontal across the middle is because everything below that point was always wet. this can work but you need to keep the bottom always wet and the top mostly dry. and you would have to keep oxygen in there somehow.
but i digress. what you wanna do if you're not in cocoganics like me is first get your "solution" (nute mix or plain phed water for all i care) together to fix the pH. coco is like a soggy log. it'll suck in moisture if you soak it, but when you only rinse it, aka regular drip style/hand water/top down run through of liquid. it mostly stays wet from the soaking and water you water in is just running off really. with this principle in mind you have to soak your plant. like literally submerge it most of the way in this solution. for at least 30 minutes. i wouldn't go over an hour unless you're gonna bubble it.
anyway that will fix your pH. don't worry about overwatering it, that damage is already done. next you're gonna watch the plants as they dry out. you need it to get back to at least 70% completely dry before you water again. make sure the top doesn't get all bone dry or you'll see the underwatering symptoms like the pic you posted.
basically all the roots below those white ones in the middle are dead/dying from lack of oxygen. too soggy. the stuff up top is pretty terrible looking too from drying out and then being remoistened. but i see you got a lot of healthy leaves still so it'll be alright.
you gotta let the pots get near dry. as they dry out the roots start to grow down chasing the moisture. but the top is still gonna be drying out so you need to make sure the top 1/2 inch stays moist. MOIST!!!! not wet. my advice is after the dunking just cover with a mulch of some sort. that gnat stuff you said was made of glass isn't the cause of your problems. if its only mixed into the top bit then yeah it helped your top layer dry out faster. but your main deal was prolly thinking you couldn't overwater coco like i did and going ham sandwich on the watering.
when the soil is back to mostly dry (70%) or so don't want it to dry all the way out, then it's gonna take a few waterings before the coco is able to soak in water, unless you dunk it again. but we don't want it that wet yet. but basically you want to let it get close to dry a few times then water lightly and let dry down again. 3-4 times tops the roots should be poking out the bottom again after that you can go back to however you were watering, but i would suggest myself maintaining the wet dry cycle. adjust as you need. it comes with experience. but basically you wanna keep the coco moist. like very barely moist to medium moist all the time. like...have you ever opened a bag of like premixed potting soil, or like a bag of cedar chips that has been out in the elements and is moist but not dripping wet?
that level of moistness. a touch above one of those cello sponges in the package if you have those where you live. humid and moist like a jungle but not dripping wet.
if you doubt i know what i'm talking about feel free to peruse my gallery or any of my shitty threads.
whats going on here i think is that people confuse "water as much as you want" and "can't overwater coco" this is all BULLSHIT. you best believe you can overwater coco.
you see those really thick roots in your pot? those are water roots. the reason they seem to be horizontal across the middle is because everything below that point was always wet. this can work but you need to keep the bottom always wet and the top mostly dry. and you would have to keep oxygen in there somehow.
but i digress. what you wanna do if you're not in cocoganics like me is first get your "solution" (nute mix or plain phed water for all i care) together to fix the pH. coco is like a soggy log. it'll suck in moisture if you soak it, but when you only rinse it, aka regular drip style/hand water/top down run through of liquid. it mostly stays wet from the soaking and water you water in is just running off really. with this principle in mind you have to soak your plant. like literally submerge it most of the way in this solution. for at least 30 minutes. i wouldn't go over an hour unless you're gonna bubble it.
anyway that will fix your pH. don't worry about overwatering it, that damage is already done. next you're gonna watch the plants as they dry out. you need it to get back to at least 70% completely dry before you water again. make sure the top doesn't get all bone dry or you'll see the underwatering symptoms like the pic you posted.
basically all the roots below those white ones in the middle are dead/dying from lack of oxygen. too soggy. the stuff up top is pretty terrible looking too from drying out and then being remoistened. but i see you got a lot of healthy leaves still so it'll be alright.
you gotta let the pots get near dry. as they dry out the roots start to grow down chasing the moisture. but the top is still gonna be drying out so you need to make sure the top 1/2 inch stays moist. MOIST!!!! not wet. my advice is after the dunking just cover with a mulch of some sort. that gnat stuff you said was made of glass isn't the cause of your problems. if its only mixed into the top bit then yeah it helped your top layer dry out faster. but your main deal was prolly thinking you couldn't overwater coco like i did and going ham sandwich on the watering.
when the soil is back to mostly dry (70%) or so don't want it to dry all the way out, then it's gonna take a few waterings before the coco is able to soak in water, unless you dunk it again. but we don't want it that wet yet. but basically you want to let it get close to dry a few times then water lightly and let dry down again. 3-4 times tops the roots should be poking out the bottom again after that you can go back to however you were watering, but i would suggest myself maintaining the wet dry cycle. adjust as you need. it comes with experience. but basically you wanna keep the coco moist. like very barely moist to medium moist all the time. like...have you ever opened a bag of like premixed potting soil, or like a bag of cedar chips that has been out in the elements and is moist but not dripping wet?
that level of moistness. a touch above one of those cello sponges in the package if you have those where you live. humid and moist like a jungle but not dripping wet.
if you doubt i know what i'm talking about feel free to peruse my gallery or any of my shitty threads.
It would seem as if your roots are not healthy at all. Looking at your picture your primary roots still look white but hardy and your lateral roots look clear and very damaged.
This could indeed be a case of overwatering. But I would also say you have a case of fusarium wilt because of the root damage. And this is whats causing you more issues.
If you have fusarium wilt Avoid over-application of high nitrogen fertilizers. High soil nitrogen levels accompanied by low potassium levels can increase susceptibility to the fungus.
Don't use anything else organic !! Organic nutrients rely on soil for the uptake of the elements it provides. You are not using soil your using coco. Some organic feed will work in coco but they have been prepared to do so. Organic is quite a ambiguous word and without knowing what it was your adding who knows ?
First thing is to let those pots dry out. Second grab some H2O2 (liquid oxygen) And give them a double strength dose with some chelated nutrients for coco. Flush the pots through thoroughly with this mix. Do this a few times until you see improvement.
You don't need a high EC at this moment you need to increase with the plants health as they wont be taking much up while stressed.
And finally don't go by visual checks to water. Lift the pot and feel if its light. Water when they are around half the weight when saturated.
Expect these plants to look worse before they look better. Concentrate on new growth and make sure this is looking healthy. The old damaged leaves will probably die back.
Good luck buddy.
This could indeed be a case of overwatering. But I would also say you have a case of fusarium wilt because of the root damage. And this is whats causing you more issues.
If you have fusarium wilt Avoid over-application of high nitrogen fertilizers. High soil nitrogen levels accompanied by low potassium levels can increase susceptibility to the fungus.
Don't use anything else organic !! Organic nutrients rely on soil for the uptake of the elements it provides. You are not using soil your using coco. Some organic feed will work in coco but they have been prepared to do so. Organic is quite a ambiguous word and without knowing what it was your adding who knows ?
First thing is to let those pots dry out. Second grab some H2O2 (liquid oxygen) And give them a double strength dose with some chelated nutrients for coco. Flush the pots through thoroughly with this mix. Do this a few times until you see improvement.
You don't need a high EC at this moment you need to increase with the plants health as they wont be taking much up while stressed.
And finally don't go by visual checks to water. Lift the pot and feel if its light. Water when they are around half the weight when saturated.
Expect these plants to look worse before they look better. Concentrate on new growth and make sure this is looking healthy. The old damaged leaves will probably die back.
Good luck buddy.
Snauseberry
Member
I meant the link mikell posted
Makes perfect sense with coco too. I've got to say I use expanded clay in my coco but it's 9/16mm so shouldn't have a problem
Although the reference is soil, I think it is still relevant. Another source on water movement in containers. The Chalker-Scott website is a good read from top to bottom if you have the time.
Coir has great wicking ability that would counter slightly, but to my knowledge, water is less able to move across varying stratified substrates (solid coir to solid perlite/hydroton/etc).
When people say coir is "impossible to over water" or "always keep moist", I believe they mean after strong root development. I maintain a wet/dry (albeit the dry cycle is wetter than I would go with peat) until roots are well established, at which point you can water to your preference. Allowing coir to almost fully dry out (as peat) will cause swings in the substrate pH, to my understanding.
It's a myth that coco needs to stay wet. The PH of the media wouldn't fluctuate either. Water coco when you have lost around 50% water in weight.
Also I would only recommend mixing coco with other mediums if your using automated watering systems like autopots or dripper systems and the only reason why is so you can run a little more aggressive watering regime and keep the pot wet without overdoing it.
The reason why you want to keep the pot wet is to stop dry pockets. If you run a too aggressive wet / dry cycle in coco you can end up with the water following paths through the coco and not dissipating. Leads to dead pockets of roots.
Same principle as putting a dry sponge under the tap and turning it on. The water will fall through a dry sponge and the outside stays dry. Soak it and try again and every part of the sponge soaks water up.
Here's what I wrote on a previous post
drgr33nuk said:
well it's good to see that no matter what the problem is you will have conflicting reports depending on who you ask.....
H&G Magic green being a foilar feed is great for stressed plants or underfed plants. And to be fair some may say was a good idea for plants with damaged roots as they can take what they need from their leaves.
BUT too much foilar and the plants tend to get lazy and not feel the need to throw out new root growth.
I use Growth technology liquid oxygen which is @ 17.5% dilution. I would only double dose one and @ 1ml per litre. Then back to 0.5ml per litre thereafter.
Because there's no right way really. We are all experimenting and trying to improve and there is 100 ways to skin a cat. Hence the vast choice of nutrients and equipment for sale world wide all telling you that they have the best mix because ...... All I try to do is advice people based on my own experience and others. I advice people on a daily basis on problems / room setups and lots of things. I have done for years and I also believe in free information. It's up to the reader to make his own mind up on what to do really.
This guy knows his shit! Listen to this post!
I would start over with fresh clones in a fresh medium.
Youve stunted and stressed these so badly that even if they bounce back you will have stunted yield and vigor, while increasing the chances for hermies.
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