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Malaysian airliner crashes in E. Ukraine
- Thread starter Storm Shadow
- Start date
there are reports that the beer bottles can be seen laying around the buk launchers in the US satellite images with Ukrainian military operating the system. but yeah i won't just believe that either, i want the proof before i believe any one of these waring parties version of events.
yeah this guy was interviewed about this by RT and he denied making such claims and says he was taken out of context, no surprise there, as the original interview which is linked in this thread, can be interpreted either way as someone pointed out earlier. also there is a difference between having a buk system and having an operational buk system. and having one is also not proof of having used it on that plane. we know the Ukrainians had 3 of them deployed in the area at the time of the shoot down.
Pentagon Says Russia Preparing To Transfer "Powerful Weapons" To Ukraine
No red lines, no YouTube clips, no "satellite images" of WMD this time: just more "straight to propaganda" speculation by the Pentagon. From Reuters:
So Russia "could", "potentially today" transfer rocket launchers to Ukraine. But wait, wasn't the same Pentagon reporting hours ago that Russia is now, with the entire world clearly watching, no longer even pretending to be not engaged and is firing at Ukraine forces directly from its own territory? Why would they stop now? And surely with every US spy satellite trained at east Ukraine, the moment this happens it will be blasted to every media outlet. Right?
More:
Then there was this:
•EARNEST SAYS U.S. TALKING WITH EU ABOUT MORE RUSSIA SANCTIONS
And then, just to hammer home the message that crazy Putin, the "West's Public Enemy Number One" is about to invade Ukraine, we get this from Reuters:
•MORE THAN 15K RUSSIAN TROOPS ON UKRAINE BORDER
Ok, we get it: the former KGB spy is on full tilt and deserves every #hashtag the West can unleash. So please activate the sanctions already, those including Gazprom and not the purely theatrical ones to date, and let's all sit back and watch what happens to Europe's economy.
In the meantime, due to popular demand, here is some cover art courtesy of William Banzai.
MH17 victim’;s credit cards used after crash, says report
MH17 victim’;s credit cards used after crash, says report
The wife of a Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 victim was stunned when she saw that her husband's credit cards were being used after the plane crashed in Ukraine last week, the Daily Mail reported. Cameron Dalziel's wife Reine has since cancelled her husband's credit cards upon noticing activity in his account, her brother told CNN.
Cameron Dalziel's wife Reine has since cancelled her husband's credit cards upon noticing activity in his account, her brother told CNN.
Cameron was a South African travelling on a British passport, who had moved with his wife and two children to Malaysia recently.
The report said that the "heartless" rebels, who allegedly shot the plane down, had been using victims' credit cards, answering their phones and looting their belongings, including jewellery, from the crash site.
Reine's brother, Shane Hattingh, told CNN that, "People are abusing it in the Ukraine. They have no respect for each other, look what they're doing. It's no surprise that they were treating the remains of people like that. It made me angry beyond words".
This only added weight to reports that the pro-Russian rebels have looted the MH17 crash site to sabotage the investigation into the disaster and to cash in on it, the Daily Mail reported.
It was previously reported that relatives of victims of the crash had called their mobile phones only to have them picked up by people with "eastern European-sounding voices".
They then proceeded to instruct the mobile phone companies to shut down the accounts.
The report said that a picture of a rebel taking a ring from a body at the disaster site has also surfaced.
"After terrorists looters stole all the cash, jewellery, mobile phones and credit cards of passengers of ill-fated Boeing – they took up their favourite deal – gathering of scrap metal. Aluminium from which the plane is made is expensive," Ukrainian government adviser Anton Gerashchenko was quoted as saying.
Ukraine's National Security and Defence Council spokesman Andrei Lysenko, was also reported as saying previously that there were no limits to the "cynicism of these gangsters".
"According to our information, apart from picking up valuable personal belongings of the passengers, terrorists are using credit cards of the victims," he said.
UK intelligence officials claim there was new evidence which showed that the separatists had planned to sabotage the probe into the crash by contaminating the area with parts from other planes, the report said.
The rebels, they were reported as saying by Sky News, had discussed removing bodies from the crash site and sending the black box data recorders to Moscow.
The Daily Mail also reported that rebel commander Igor Strelkov had issued a decree, ordering the jewellery, watches and other valuables taken from the victims of the crash to be handed in to fund their insurgency.
However, the decree could not be verified, it was reported. But the order said that the loot must be brought in to the headquarters of the Donetsk People's Republic army for its "Defence Fund" by 8pm yesterday.
The Boeing 777 was en route to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam when it was shot down in eastern Ukraine last Thursday, killing all 298 people on board.
Those responsible for downing the aircraft have yet to be identified, with Russian and Ukrainian authorities blaming each other and pro-Russian separatists for the disaster.
The MH17 crash comes just four months after MH370, along with its 239 passengers and crew, disappeared on March 8. Its whereabouts remain unknown.
The tragedies have led to the loss of 537 lives, the highest death toll suffered by any airline over such a short time span. – July 24, 2014.
http://news.malaysia.msn.com/tmi/mh17-victim’s-credit-cards-used-after-crash-says-report
MH17 victim’;s credit cards used after crash, says report
The wife of a Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 victim was stunned when she saw that her husband's credit cards were being used after the plane crashed in Ukraine last week, the Daily Mail reported. Cameron Dalziel's wife Reine has since cancelled her husband's credit cards upon noticing activity in his account, her brother told CNN.
Cameron Dalziel's wife Reine has since cancelled her husband's credit cards upon noticing activity in his account, her brother told CNN.
Cameron was a South African travelling on a British passport, who had moved with his wife and two children to Malaysia recently.
The report said that the "heartless" rebels, who allegedly shot the plane down, had been using victims' credit cards, answering their phones and looting their belongings, including jewellery, from the crash site.
Reine's brother, Shane Hattingh, told CNN that, "People are abusing it in the Ukraine. They have no respect for each other, look what they're doing. It's no surprise that they were treating the remains of people like that. It made me angry beyond words".
This only added weight to reports that the pro-Russian rebels have looted the MH17 crash site to sabotage the investigation into the disaster and to cash in on it, the Daily Mail reported.
It was previously reported that relatives of victims of the crash had called their mobile phones only to have them picked up by people with "eastern European-sounding voices".
They then proceeded to instruct the mobile phone companies to shut down the accounts.
The report said that a picture of a rebel taking a ring from a body at the disaster site has also surfaced.
"After terrorists looters stole all the cash, jewellery, mobile phones and credit cards of passengers of ill-fated Boeing – they took up their favourite deal – gathering of scrap metal. Aluminium from which the plane is made is expensive," Ukrainian government adviser Anton Gerashchenko was quoted as saying.
Ukraine's National Security and Defence Council spokesman Andrei Lysenko, was also reported as saying previously that there were no limits to the "cynicism of these gangsters".
"According to our information, apart from picking up valuable personal belongings of the passengers, terrorists are using credit cards of the victims," he said.
UK intelligence officials claim there was new evidence which showed that the separatists had planned to sabotage the probe into the crash by contaminating the area with parts from other planes, the report said.
The rebels, they were reported as saying by Sky News, had discussed removing bodies from the crash site and sending the black box data recorders to Moscow.
The Daily Mail also reported that rebel commander Igor Strelkov had issued a decree, ordering the jewellery, watches and other valuables taken from the victims of the crash to be handed in to fund their insurgency.
However, the decree could not be verified, it was reported. But the order said that the loot must be brought in to the headquarters of the Donetsk People's Republic army for its "Defence Fund" by 8pm yesterday.
The Boeing 777 was en route to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam when it was shot down in eastern Ukraine last Thursday, killing all 298 people on board.
Those responsible for downing the aircraft have yet to be identified, with Russian and Ukrainian authorities blaming each other and pro-Russian separatists for the disaster.
The MH17 crash comes just four months after MH370, along with its 239 passengers and crew, disappeared on March 8. Its whereabouts remain unknown.
The tragedies have led to the loss of 537 lives, the highest death toll suffered by any airline over such a short time span. – July 24, 2014.
http://news.malaysia.msn.com/tmi/mh17-victim’s-credit-cards-used-after-crash-says-report
U.S. Military Chief Compares Putin’s Ukraine Move to Stalin’s Invasion of Poland
U.S. Military Chief Compares Putin’s Ukraine Move to Stalin’s Invasion of Poland
Today the U.S. government claimed the Russian military is firing artillery into Ukraine and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs said it reminds him of Russia’s invasion of Poland in 1939.
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Martin Dempsey said Thursday that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s new use of Russian military force inside Ukraine harkens back to 1939 when Joseph Stalin led a Russian invasion of Poland, and Dempsey predicted Putin was far from finished.
Dempsey was speaking to the Aspen Security Forum and responding to the news that the U.S. government is accusing the Russian military of firing artillery from Russian territory into eastern Ukraine in support of separatists there. The latest development represents a dangerous escalation of the crisis on the part of Putin, and the Russia-Ukraine crisis is now a global problem, he said.
“It does change the situation. You’ve got a Russian government that has made a conscious decision to use its military force inside another sovereign nation to achieve its objectives. It’s the first time since 1939 or so that that’s been the case,” Dempsey said. “They clearly are on a path to assert themselves differently not just in Eastern Europe, but Europe in the main, and towards the United States.”
Since 2008, the Russian military has increased its capability, proficiency, and the level of its activities, indicating Putin’s worldwide ambitions, Dempsey said. The strategy is Putin’s alone, he added, and said much of Russia’s military were probably reluctant participants in Putin’s war.
“This is very clearly Putin, the man himself, with a vision for Europe as he sees it, what he considers to be an effort to redress grievances that we burdened upon Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union and also to appeal to ethnic Russian enclaves across Eastern Europe,” he said. “He’s very aggressive about it, he’s got a playbook he’s been successful with two or three times, and he will continue.”
Following new U.S. and European sanctions on Russia last week and amid harsh international criticism of Russian support for Ukrainian separatists who apparently accidentally shot down a commercial airliner, Putin has not shown any indication that he is responding to the pressure by pulling back, Dempsey said.
“At a time when some folks could convince themselves that Putin would be looking for a reason to de-escalate, he’s actually taken a decision to escalate,” Dempsey said
Joseph Stalin used similar rhetoric and justifications when he invaded Poland in September 1939, only days after Adolf Hitler’s Nazi army invaded Poland from the other direction. Stalin and Hitler had signed a secret pact of non-aggression and proposed to carve up Europe between them, but Stalin said his goal was to protect ethnic Russians in his near abroad.
“The Soviet Government cannot regard with indifference the fact that the kindred Ukrainian and White Russian people, who live on Polish territory and who are at the mercy of fate, are now left defenseless,” read the note from the Soviet Foreign Ministry to the Polish Ambassador to Moscow on the day Stalin invaded.
“Putin may actually light a fire that he loses control over,” he said. “There’s a rising tide of nationalism in Europe right now that has been created in many ways by these Russian activities.”
Putin has not yet ordered a full-on Russian military invasion of eastern Ukraine, but continues to ship heavy weapons including tanks and rocket launchers to Ukrainian separatists from the Russian military base in Rostov, according to U.S. intelligence officials, along with what Dempsey called a strategy of “proximate coercion and subversion” inside Ukraine that is creating dangerous conditions.
“Putin may actually light a fire that he loses control over,” he said. “There’s a rising tide of nationalism in Europe right now that has been created in many ways by these Russian activities.”
State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf told reporters Thursday that U.S. intelligence showed that the Russian military had now fired artillery from Russia into Ukraine, but she declined to provide any details about the source of the intelligence.
“We have new evidence that the Russians intend to deliver heavier and more powerful, multiple rocket launchers to the separatist forces in Ukraine, and have evidence that Russia is firing artillery from within Russia to attack Ukrainian military positions,” she said. “This is just some pieces of info I’ve been able to get from our intelligence friends for you. I can’t tell you what the information is based on. I know that’s disappointing to you.”
Mikheil Saakashvili, the former president of Georgia who fought a war against Russia in 2008, told The Daily Beast in an interview that as the Ukrainian government escalates its war on the separatists, Putin is escalating his support of them in proportion, a strategy he has employed since the crisis began.
But although everything was going Putin’s way for a while, recently the Ukrainian government has been performing much better, he said, and the downing of MH17, apparently by the separatists, also could lead to more sanctions against Russia. Putin is cornered, according to Saakashvili, which is why he is lashing out.
“Putin’s problem is that he is right now on the verge of military defeat. So he has two choices right now, neither of them good,” Saakashvili said. “He could move in his troops, after which he would become an international pariah with no certain outcome. The second choice he has is to live with military defeat, but that could trigger a process inside Russia that he can no longer control… Putin cannot afford to lose.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...aine-move-to-stalin-s-invasion-of-poland.html
U.S. Military Chief Compares Putin’s Ukraine Move to Stalin’s Invasion of Poland
Today the U.S. government claimed the Russian military is firing artillery into Ukraine and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs said it reminds him of Russia’s invasion of Poland in 1939.
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Martin Dempsey said Thursday that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s new use of Russian military force inside Ukraine harkens back to 1939 when Joseph Stalin led a Russian invasion of Poland, and Dempsey predicted Putin was far from finished.
Dempsey was speaking to the Aspen Security Forum and responding to the news that the U.S. government is accusing the Russian military of firing artillery from Russian territory into eastern Ukraine in support of separatists there. The latest development represents a dangerous escalation of the crisis on the part of Putin, and the Russia-Ukraine crisis is now a global problem, he said.
“It does change the situation. You’ve got a Russian government that has made a conscious decision to use its military force inside another sovereign nation to achieve its objectives. It’s the first time since 1939 or so that that’s been the case,” Dempsey said. “They clearly are on a path to assert themselves differently not just in Eastern Europe, but Europe in the main, and towards the United States.”
Since 2008, the Russian military has increased its capability, proficiency, and the level of its activities, indicating Putin’s worldwide ambitions, Dempsey said. The strategy is Putin’s alone, he added, and said much of Russia’s military were probably reluctant participants in Putin’s war.
“This is very clearly Putin, the man himself, with a vision for Europe as he sees it, what he considers to be an effort to redress grievances that we burdened upon Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union and also to appeal to ethnic Russian enclaves across Eastern Europe,” he said. “He’s very aggressive about it, he’s got a playbook he’s been successful with two or three times, and he will continue.”
Following new U.S. and European sanctions on Russia last week and amid harsh international criticism of Russian support for Ukrainian separatists who apparently accidentally shot down a commercial airliner, Putin has not shown any indication that he is responding to the pressure by pulling back, Dempsey said.
“At a time when some folks could convince themselves that Putin would be looking for a reason to de-escalate, he’s actually taken a decision to escalate,” Dempsey said
Joseph Stalin used similar rhetoric and justifications when he invaded Poland in September 1939, only days after Adolf Hitler’s Nazi army invaded Poland from the other direction. Stalin and Hitler had signed a secret pact of non-aggression and proposed to carve up Europe between them, but Stalin said his goal was to protect ethnic Russians in his near abroad.
“The Soviet Government cannot regard with indifference the fact that the kindred Ukrainian and White Russian people, who live on Polish territory and who are at the mercy of fate, are now left defenseless,” read the note from the Soviet Foreign Ministry to the Polish Ambassador to Moscow on the day Stalin invaded.
“Putin may actually light a fire that he loses control over,” he said. “There’s a rising tide of nationalism in Europe right now that has been created in many ways by these Russian activities.”
Putin has not yet ordered a full-on Russian military invasion of eastern Ukraine, but continues to ship heavy weapons including tanks and rocket launchers to Ukrainian separatists from the Russian military base in Rostov, according to U.S. intelligence officials, along with what Dempsey called a strategy of “proximate coercion and subversion” inside Ukraine that is creating dangerous conditions.
“Putin may actually light a fire that he loses control over,” he said. “There’s a rising tide of nationalism in Europe right now that has been created in many ways by these Russian activities.”
State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf told reporters Thursday that U.S. intelligence showed that the Russian military had now fired artillery from Russia into Ukraine, but she declined to provide any details about the source of the intelligence.
“We have new evidence that the Russians intend to deliver heavier and more powerful, multiple rocket launchers to the separatist forces in Ukraine, and have evidence that Russia is firing artillery from within Russia to attack Ukrainian military positions,” she said. “This is just some pieces of info I’ve been able to get from our intelligence friends for you. I can’t tell you what the information is based on. I know that’s disappointing to you.”
Mikheil Saakashvili, the former president of Georgia who fought a war against Russia in 2008, told The Daily Beast in an interview that as the Ukrainian government escalates its war on the separatists, Putin is escalating his support of them in proportion, a strategy he has employed since the crisis began.
But although everything was going Putin’s way for a while, recently the Ukrainian government has been performing much better, he said, and the downing of MH17, apparently by the separatists, also could lead to more sanctions against Russia. Putin is cornered, according to Saakashvili, which is why he is lashing out.
“Putin’s problem is that he is right now on the verge of military defeat. So he has two choices right now, neither of them good,” Saakashvili said. “He could move in his troops, after which he would become an international pariah with no certain outcome. The second choice he has is to live with military defeat, but that could trigger a process inside Russia that he can no longer control… Putin cannot afford to lose.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...aine-move-to-stalin-s-invasion-of-poland.html
of course, the whole banking system is down in eastern Ukrain, power is off water is off, but internet shopping per credit card is still all the rage apparently, lmao. the atms are all empty people, it's a war zone, a credit card won't buy you shit if the money transfer system is not operating. this is obviously someone making duty free purchases on the plane or at the airport.
can we see just one pic of all the Russian material heading to Ukraine. i mean damn, it sounds like the rebels should be the best equipped rebels in the world. with all the columns of tanks and artillery they are getting there must be pics of rebels using this stuff. the only pics i ever saw months ago was some tanks that it ended up were filmed inside Russia. there is no proof Russia is really helping these rebels, i said it before if they were you'd be seeing a repeat of Crimea, not the slaughtering of the civilians in the east.
like i said before Russia is well aware of the precarious situation the Kiev regime is in. the government collapsed in part because they were un able to pass any of the laws they needed to pass to be eligible for the IMF loans. they have to double the price of gas and reduce pensions by a third as well as privatize much of the left over national resources, privatization will lead to hefty price increases. they said in their own words that they also don't know how any more salaries can be paid as of next month. Russia really has no need to do much other then wait for it to win this proxy war by default, in fact supplying the rebels with hi tec weapons would be exactly the one way they could lose. you have to give Putin his due, he is not an idiot, reports making him out to be an imbecile tend to be bs. he is ruthless and i'm sure is capable of a lot, but it has to bring him something. i've read and listened to enough of his speeches to know that he'd never order something so blatantly idiotic like firing on Ukraine. to me these reports which are probably from the Ukrainian gov, are made in desperation, now that the plane is not blamed on Putin they need other shit to sling his way.
Russia has reported numerous occasions when it's been shelled by Ukraine, in fact 2 Russians have been killed in Russia, by shelling from across the border, it has said recently that they reserve the right to return fire if this keeps happening.
can we see just one pic of all the Russian material heading to Ukraine. i mean damn, it sounds like the rebels should be the best equipped rebels in the world. with all the columns of tanks and artillery they are getting there must be pics of rebels using this stuff. the only pics i ever saw months ago was some tanks that it ended up were filmed inside Russia. there is no proof Russia is really helping these rebels, i said it before if they were you'd be seeing a repeat of Crimea, not the slaughtering of the civilians in the east.
like i said before Russia is well aware of the precarious situation the Kiev regime is in. the government collapsed in part because they were un able to pass any of the laws they needed to pass to be eligible for the IMF loans. they have to double the price of gas and reduce pensions by a third as well as privatize much of the left over national resources, privatization will lead to hefty price increases. they said in their own words that they also don't know how any more salaries can be paid as of next month. Russia really has no need to do much other then wait for it to win this proxy war by default, in fact supplying the rebels with hi tec weapons would be exactly the one way they could lose. you have to give Putin his due, he is not an idiot, reports making him out to be an imbecile tend to be bs. he is ruthless and i'm sure is capable of a lot, but it has to bring him something. i've read and listened to enough of his speeches to know that he'd never order something so blatantly idiotic like firing on Ukraine. to me these reports which are probably from the Ukrainian gov, are made in desperation, now that the plane is not blamed on Putin they need other shit to sling his way.
Russia has reported numerous occasions when it's been shelled by Ukraine, in fact 2 Russians have been killed in Russia, by shelling from across the border, it has said recently that they reserve the right to return fire if this keeps happening.
Company In Which Joe Biden's Son Is Director Prepares To Drill Shale Gas In East Ukraine
Recall what we said earlier today: the proxy Ukraine war just like that in Syria preceding it, "is all about energy."
Recall also the following chart showing Ukraine's shale gas deposits, keeping in mind that the Dnieper-Donets basin which lies in the hotly contested eastern part of the nation and where as everyone knows by now a bloody civil war is raging, is the major oil and gas producing region of Ukraine accounting for approximately 90 per cent of Ukrainian production and according to EIA may have 42 tcf of shale gas resources technically recoverable from 197 tcf of risked shale gas in place.
Finally, recall our story from May that Joe Biden's son, Hunter, just joined the board of the largest Ukraine gas producer Burisma Holdings. From the press release:
Now put it all together and you will like figure out what will happen next.
* * *
Still confused? It's very simple, really.
In a nutshell Ukraine has decided to let no crisis, or rather civil war, go to waste, and while the fighting rages all around, Ukrainian troopers are helping to install shale gas production equipment near the east Ukrainian town of Slavyansk, which was bombed and shelled for the three preceding months, according to local residents cited by Itar Tass.
Not only them but also all-important Germany, which two weeks ago announced it would halt shale-gas drilling for the next seven years over groundwater pollution concerns.
Which clearly makes Ukraine, potentially the last place with massive shale gas deposits and no drilling ban, quite valuable to those who want to develop a major source of shale gas, one which reduces Europe's reliance on Russian gas even more, yet one whose future depends on one simple question: who controls East Ukraine?
Because what better way to accelerate "next steps" than to start drilling for gas in the middle of the Donetsk republic as a civil war is waging in all directions, and where public mood has shifted decidedly against the local "separatists" in the aftermath of the MH-17 tragedy.
The punchline: who will develop the gas field in conjunction with Shell (jointly owned by the Netherlands and the UK: the two countries that loathe Putin the most in the aftermath of the MH-17 disaster) which in May 2012 announced a tender for the right to develop the Yuzovka shale gas deposit?
Q.E.D.
Nothing surprises me anymore. We are but pawns for the uber rich, who's appetite for money and power is insatiable. They are the .5%, we are the 99.5%. They are in control. We are but bystanders, trying to make sense of the insanity. They care nothing for us. They have lost their humanity. It's disturbing, to say the least, and goes against everything our founders believed in, it goes against everything every religion espouses. Our marginalization increases with each passing day, as the top of the wealth pyramid continues to extract more and more from the bottom. As the world population increases by 80 million annually, most of them in the third world, the pressures on the bottom of the pyramid increase exponentially. Most of the third world exists on $2 or less per day. This is slavery on a scale never before seen in human history.
The Wealth Pyramid: (note: this is somewhat dated. Even more wealth is concentrated at the top now, with one report stating that 85 individuals own 40% of the planet, and the numbers at the bottom are ever increasing, as population explodes):
Here is the Starvation Pyramid, also slightly dated, so more people are starving to death daily, as the uber rich look on, not caring:
Why is this relevant to the discussion? Because increasing population means increased pressure on our environment, increased competition for ever dwindling resources, to the point that we are fighting wars for oil. Next up? We will be fighting for water. That's when things will really get ugly.
The Wealth Pyramid: (note: this is somewhat dated. Even more wealth is concentrated at the top now, with one report stating that 85 individuals own 40% of the planet, and the numbers at the bottom are ever increasing, as population explodes):
Here is the Starvation Pyramid, also slightly dated, so more people are starving to death daily, as the uber rich look on, not caring:
Why is this relevant to the discussion? Because increasing population means increased pressure on our environment, increased competition for ever dwindling resources, to the point that we are fighting wars for oil. Next up? We will be fighting for water. That's when things will really get ugly.
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The intention of my post was to show that these agreements were already in place prior to all this unfolding.
If we are to speculate that there is an energy component to this war then we must consider who would benefit from the Separatists being victorious: Ukraine, Shell, Chevron and the EU who would have benefited from the existing agreement? Or Russia who would benefit from gaining influence over the Dnieper Donets Basin?
Personally I believe this conflict has older and more complicated origins than this, though these may now be contributing factors.
If we are to speculate that there is an energy component to this war then we must consider who would benefit from the Separatists being victorious: Ukraine, Shell, Chevron and the EU who would have benefited from the existing agreement? Or Russia who would benefit from gaining influence over the Dnieper Donets Basin?
Personally I believe this conflict has older and more complicated origins than this, though these may now be contributing factors.
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So it was planned far in advance. Secure the agreement and commence with the destabilization. Solid business plan. That's just my speculation though. There are a lot of factors at play which to me revolve around the US dollar Ponzi scheme hegemony. Except there is no tricking people into buying into the scheme there is only military force. As Kaddafi found out by trying to introduce the gold Dinar.
at last, a nugget of truth...
Meaning I can't tell what the exact outcome will be of enforcing this policy of the dollar being the world's reserve currency. But it is happening and it really isn't good for the US. Because in general people don't like being bullied.
The Kremlin doesn't need to pay their propagandists anymore, they have dupes like this to parrot their bullshit.
Documents Show How Russia’s Troll Army Hit America
http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-troll-army-hit-america
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/04/pro-russia-trolls-ukraine-guardian-online
Russian TV Propagandists Caught Red-Handed
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrod...ifferent-people-spy-bystander-heroic-surgeon/
Russia hire actress to claim Ukrainian soldiers crucifying babies
http://www.examiner.com/article/rus...-dugin-scripted-fake-baby-crucifixion-ukraine
.
there was a 20-something Ukranian who posted on Facebook about her friend a looter giving her makeup - and she posted pictures of herself wearing it. It went viral and now she took all her social media sites down. She was wearing a dead person's makeup
