Doomsday Seed Preservation:Breeders URGED to Contribute to Arctic Circle Facility

[wingdings]

Round Up isn't Bill Gates . Most anti-cancer drugs are based on natural products and are neither better nor worse than the synthetics, nothing new to that. Besides, the Gates Foundation invests in the discovery of the the former (and biologicals) more than in the latter.
Did you ever do cancer and natural product research? Guess not... but I did (a lot) so I suppose I have the right to tell you that you better keep your pseudo- and half-truths to yourself and stop the blasphemy.

Anti-cancer drugs are a multi billion dollar industry annually. Some of which may be derived from natural sources, but doing harm to a person at a cellular level is barbaric, certainly counter intuitive to someone who needs to rid themselves of cancer. A smarter approach would be to ingest something that regulates the body at a cellular level, i.e. cannabinoids, correct the bodies pH, and create an oxygen rich environment in the body where only healthy cells can thrive. Bill Gates is only perpetuating the misconception that drugs like chemotherapy and radiation are the the correct path to curing cancer.

Yes, Bill Gates is highly invested in Monsanto ($23 million invested in their stock alone), the creator of Round Up (glyphosate) and Agent Orange (both cancer causing agents) among other lovely chemicals. Very clear connection there. Just because you refuse to believe something, doesn't make it blasphemy.
Its really a great business model, make money feeding people carcinogenic food, then make money treating them for (not curing them of) cancer.

I survived Acute Myeloid Leukemia, so yes I have done extensive research simply because of the fact that my life depended on it.

You have the right to say whatever you please, but you are still wrong on all accounts.

 

[dank.frank]

My only problem with these seed banks - is they are so remote...

If I send my genetics there and a truly catastrophic event happens. Fuel isn't being transferred. Boats aren't going to ship cargo. Planes aren't going to fly cargo. Mail isn't going to be delivered....

How am I going to get my genetics back once things actually go down?

I love the idea in theory - but how PRACTICAL is it really???



dank.Frank

 

[Granger2]

Depends on what kind of catastrophe. If there is a comet strike that causes all life on land to die, won't matter. If there is a blight or something temporary and things start coming back online, then the seed are there to start anew.

I guess what we need is something at high altitude inside a mountain in Colorado. But these things take money. Know any marijuana minded rich people that would be willing to chip in?

There are many seed vaults around the world. The US govt has a dandy one, but I don't think they would be open to the idea.

I had hoped to plant an idea in the heads of the seed industry. To whom much is given, much is expected. -granger

 

[Only Ornamental]

I just found out that the main purpose of the Svalbard Global Seed Vault in Norway isn't the direct preservation/storage of seeds but to serve as internationally leading backup vault (a duplicate) for national and private collections...

 

[Granger2]

The seeds are owned by the depositors, and they all have their own purposes. If I deposit seeds, and they are sitting amongst Monsatan's seeds, they are still mine, serving my purpose, and are of no benefit to Monsanto. It's the same as a safe deposit box at your bank. -granger

 

[Seaf0ur]

If your bank was owned by gang members....

Look, storing seeds for the future might be a good idea.... if you can actually use them when shit hits the fan... it'd be a long rowboat ride to go fetch em.... and these particular folk have showed many times that they cannot be trusted.

 

[Granger2]

Might be? And the row boat scenario is one possibility out of as many as people and computers can imagine. In almost any scenario things will eventually start coming back online. A comet or meteorite, no, but nothing will matter in that case.

There are 1300 seed preservation facilities around the World. Don't you think it's likely that there are some good ones? Por ejemplo, the largest by far is just outside of London, a vast Bomb blast bunker.

This can all be worked out.

I believe it's vital that the community start urging Breeders to make arrangements. You can naysay many possible scenarios, but you can't naysay them all. And that makes it essential that cannabis genetics be preserved. Think it thru, and come on over. -granger

 

[Seaf0ur]

I agree with a good part of that, but it'd take a Vandana Shiva, not a Bill Gates... and I wholeheartedly agree that it would be great to have an actual resource for rare and just plain crossed out of existence strains... but to have some seed hoard that is akin to a safety deposit box doesn't actually help propagate species.... then there's the viability issue of keeping fresh stock...
In my view, it would need to be many many small collectives so to speak... in which each contributing member have access to their vault's catalog, with the emphasis being on contributions, and each few genetic "withdrawals" would require genetic "deposits" or some such method of not only propagating species of cannabis... not for the hoard, or the profit, but instead intending only to spread the best genetics as far and widely as possible, and also to preserve the very best of them through actual use.... as things progressed each collectives catalog would grow to include other genetics via trading with neighboring collectives because the emphasis is on giving seed back to the collective so there would be surplus seed... until just about everyone has access to most things...
now thats a future I could get behind... but I simply can't imagine greed not getting in the way somewhere...

I'll start up the first chapter... I'll plug in my deep freeze and anyone who throws down seed shares in whatever's in there as long as ya keep tossin in seeds LOL... If you take the 50th from last seed you're required to do a male female pollination.... that leaves seed for others and gives time to replace them... Male isolation chambers for everyone...

I mean... something like that could work... I just don't see an unusable hoard somewhere in the clouds as a solution...

 

[Only Ornamental]

If your bank was owned by gang members...

Aren't all bankers gangsters?
Seriously, where is the bad guy here? Just because Bill Gates or whichever rich person has his fingers in it... they have their fingers everywhere! And at least BG invests a part of his money in more than luxury, parties, and whores 'alla Berlusconi'. Besides, you use a computer with software on it to access ICMag. Where did you get it? DIY? LOL!
You can't escape that sorta things, not in this world.
Why always point the finger at Monsanto? Companies like them funded or helped to build the basis for roughly 80% of the knowledge we have in molecular biology, plant physiology, pharmaceuticals, and so on. Without them, we'd still be in the '60 cause the 'good guys' either have no intention of donating money for research or don't have the money in the first place.
I'm not saying I'm okay with their monopoly, sails tactics, absent moral, or business ethics... but THEY aren't as bad as you think! Look at your cloths: how did they get their colours? Ever thought about the coloured rivers in India? THAT's environmental pollution, not a bit of herbicide... Apropos pesticides; I'm sure you still believe neem oil is a good thing. Though it grows on trees, it kills people too! Whole villages have malformed kids due to azadirachtin, much like back in the day of DDT.
And why is the patent holder of glyphosate bad? THEY don't kill nature, those who use Round Up do (true, Monsanto forces the poor and stupid to use their stuff). But the same goes for guns and other weapons. People who shoot others, kill. Not the manufacturers. And the same goes for all the fu**ing luxury we use every day! Like sunscreen which causes more male sterility especially in marine vertebrates than hormones from anti-baby pills... and who the f**k cares? What's with the artificial lighting? HID, MH, CFL etc. contain mercury and other toxic heavy metals, though their recycling is still not good enough and much goes to India... guess what they do there with all the broken glass.

 

[ElusiveQuark]

Seed banks are a good idea. This particular one is surrounded with controversy and subject to the rules of a treaty that are favorable to the vault custodians. I would encourage everyone to randomly spread a few pounds of seeds every year. The White House lawn would be good place to start.

 

[Seaf0ur]

In this case its because the Gates Foundation has invested heavily in converting agricultural systems to GMOs every single place they can, subverting natural seed, and the particular seedbank in question is pretty much ONLY funded by GMO proponents who have a vested interest in the failure of natural seed... Its not just naysaying, I believe dingos dont make good babysitters... if Vandana Shiva's seedbank takes cannabis, send it to her.

 

[Only Ornamental]

In my view, it would need to be many many small collectives so to speak...
I'll plug in my deep freeze and anyone who throws down seed shares in whatever's in there as long as ya keep tossin in seeds LOL...

That's actually how it works for example in Switzerland with old and rare cultivars of cereals, vegetables, fruits, and alike. Companies, farmers, and private hobby gardeners participate to keep these varieties alive. They are centralised at the Agroscope (and a backup stored in Norway). And there's also a 'collective' called 'Pro Specie Rara' who principally does the same and gets some extra money from regular sales by one of the biggest supermarket chains of Switzerland. To get seeds from the latter, you just participate or donate I think 40 CHF per year.

For obvious reasons, this only works with legal stuff... they don't have hemp anymore ;( . At least not on the list but maybe frozen somewhere...

If you really start that project and get your fridge going, I'll toss some seeds in! Promise!

 

[Seaf0ur]

Aren't all bankers gangsters?
Seriously, where is the bad guy here? Just because Bill Gates or whichever rich person has his fingers in it... they have their fingers everywhere! And at least BG invests a part of his money in more than luxury, parties, and whores 'alla Berlusconi'. Besides, you use a computer with software on it to access ICMag. Where did you get it? DIY? LOL!
You can't escape that sorta things, not in this world.
Why always point the finger at Monsanto? Companies like them funded or helped to build the basis for roughly 80% of the knowledge we have in molecular biology, plant physiology, pharmaceuticals, and so on. Without them, we'd still be in the '60 cause the 'good guys' either have no intention of donating money for research or don't have the money in the first place.
I'm not saying I'm okay with their monopoly, sails tactics, absent moral, or business ethics... but THEY aren't as bad as you think! Look at your cloths: how did they get their colours? Ever thought about the coloured rivers in India? THAT's environmental pollution, not a bit of herbicide... Apropos pesticides; I'm sure you still believe neem oil is a good thing. Though it grows on trees, it kills people too! Whole villages have malformed kids due to azadirachtin, much like back in the day of DDT.
And why is the patent holder of glyphosate bad? THEY don't kill nature, those who use Round Up do (true, Monsanto forces the poor and stupid to use their stuff). But the same goes for guns and other weapons. People who shoot others, kill. Not the manufacturers. And the same goes for all the fu**ing luxury we use every day! Like sunscreen which causes more male sterility especially in marine vertebrates than hormones from anti-baby pills... and who the f**k cares? What's with the artificial lighting? HID, MH, CFL etc. contain mercury and other toxic heavy metals, though their recycling is still not good enough and much goes to India... guess what they do there with all the broken glass.

you can not justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.... just sayin.

 

[Only Ornamental]

I don't try to justify. I'm only saying that everyone of us has a responsibility and if we can choose (for example with computer, we can't really), then we should choose wisely. But too often, we don't even know who's behind what. The 'big and mighty' nowadays have way more trouble to make a mess than the small ones, because the public eye is on them.

 

[Seaf0ur]

with great power comes great responsibility

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I considered using this for Cannabis but I was put off by several reasons, first of all when first announced the seeds would belong to Svalbard not to the people that deposited them, they could be used without the breeders permission, the second is below:
"Vault seed samples are copies of samples stored in the depositing genebanks. Researchers, plant breeders, and other groups wishing to access seed samples cannot do so through the seed vault; they must instead request samples from the depositing genebanks. The samples stored in the genebanks will, in most cases, be accessible in accordance with the terms and conditions of the International Treaty on Plant Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture, approved by 118 countries/parties."


This means you can not make deposits to the Svalbard Doomsday Vault, you must first give the materials to your National Genebank or another accepted group and they can deposit if they want to, same to get them back you must request them from your national genebank they must request them back and give them to you, if they want to.



Read this link about the SSE and Svalbard, I have been a lifetime member of the SSE from its beginning in 1975 when Kent Whealy started it. If he is against Svalbard and he is, I would suggest you understand his reasons before supporting Svalbard.

http://ppjg.me/2010/10/04/svalbard-doomsday-vault-biopiracy-by-u-n-treaty/
"For past three years, Amy Goldman (Chair of the Board of the Seed Savers Exchange) and Cary Fowler (Executive Director of the Global Crop Diversity Trust) have been depositing portions of Seed Savers Members’ Seed Collection into the Svalbard Global Seed Vault in the far north of Norway. Goldman and Fowler are being dishonest – to Seed Savers’ Members and in the avalanche of self-promotion from the Global Crop Diversity Trust, the entity that oversees Svalbard – by concealing the fact that being deposited in Svalbard places Seed Savers Members’ Seed Collection under the control of the United Nations’ FAO Treaty, which was specifically designed to facilitate access by corporate breeders."




Don't confuse Kents, and Cary's, Amy's SSE problems directly with the Svalbard Vault, but it is one of many many examples of what is really going on behind the smoke and mirrors at Svalbard.

http://gmo-journal.com/2012/03/22/controversy-with-the-doomsday-vault/
Doomsday Vault Controversy
While “[a]ll seeds stored in the Seed Vault remain the property of the country or institution which sent them,” describes GCDT, any seeds accepted for “storage at the Vault must be freely available under the terms of the International Treaty on Plant Genetic Resources. In other words, there are no seeds stored at the Seed Vault which would not be easily accessible simply by directly contacting the genebank which sent them.”

That’s exactly the problem say critics who have been apprehensive about the Doomsday Vault from the beginning. It’s double-speak, they argue because the vision that is sold to the world is a noble one, where seeds are saved, biodiversity is preserved and the world has a back-up system in case of of a disaster. The reality, however, may be that the Vault is contributing to the decline of biodiversity by giving greater seed access to biotech companies who could contact the depositing seed bank directly or through institutions whose research they fund, to then churn out patented crops. Biopiracy is the charge and it has been done before. That’s why, critics point out, it matters who supports the operation of the seed bank and who has access to the seeds because giving greater biological diversity access to companies whose business models are associated with monocropping, greater use of pesticides, declining biodiversity and the wiping away of local knowledge and traditions would seem to perverse the initial intention of the Doomsday Vault.

The Center For Food Safety (CFS), which analyzed the deposit agreements, had this to say:

The point of this analysis was to see if in some way the contract between Svalbard and depositors created an advantage for these corporations in their efforts to control and patent seed genetics. As the legal memorandum reveals, the answer to the question is “yes.” The Svalbard agreement does provide corporations seeking to patent plant genetics additional advantages in their efforts.

The CFS also pointed out that:

Meanwhile the GCDT, and it supporting biotech companies and their surrogates, are advertising how they are spending millions of dollars trying to acquire local and smaller seed collections from developing countries for Svalbard. …[T]hese local collectors have little chance to understand, much less give informed consent, to what can happen to their deposits. … [T]his informed consent problem, and the issue of corporate patenting of the genetics of the seeds deposited in Svalbard, can only be resolved through major revisions in the Agreement.

http://www.grain.org/article/entries/181-faults-in-the-vault-not-everyone-is-celebrating-svalbard

I am not trying to say that seed conservation is not important, it is, but by whom and for whom?, it is not just the results of modern seed breeding companies it is generations of farmers worldwide that have helped created the traditional varieties, as well as groups like the SSE that were caretakers of this priceless heritage and their conservation and distribution saved them from extinction.
I was all excited when I read about Svalbard, the more I understood the less I liked it. I would not put any of my collection in it, even if they would take it, I do not trust them at all.

They have 21,500 seeds of 39 different varieties of Cannabis. less then half a kilo total. I found nothing about the 4 gene banks that contributed them or what they are used for. ( If anyone sees this info about the actual Cannabis varieties please PM me the link) But it is only about 500 seeds of each variety and 2,000 seeds are required each reproduction cycle to keep 99% of the Cannabis genes found in a single wind pollinated dioecious variety. They are not even close to saving Cannabis in case of a doomsday scenario, I wonder if they have drug varieties or just industrial hemp, not that industrial hemp is not important, but I wonder....

BTW, I have maybe 50 million Cannabis seeds in my collections. I wish they had all been frozen all this time most were conserved at +4C.
Thousands of varieties, collected local landraces and hybrids I made from them. As well as industrial hemp seeds I collected.
I try to have 5,000 minimum of any variety I collect, enough to grow out two crops in case of any crop failures, but I don't often have a full 5,000 of imported rare land races, I do try, it is about 100 grams. Sometimes I only get 100 seeds or 2 grams, such is life.

Svalbard:
Species : Cannabis sativa

Genus : Cannabis

Species epithet : sativa

Vernacular name : marijuana

Accessions : 31

Seeds : 17,500

Genebanks : 3

-------------------------------------------------

Species : Cannabis sp.

Genus : Cannabis

Species epithet : sp.

Vernacular name :

Accessions : 8

Seeds : 4,000

Genebanks : 1
--------------------------------------------------

-SamS

Image, articles:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/doomsday-vault-2.jpg
[/FONT]http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...t-food-supply/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Global_Seed_Vault
http://www.globalresearch.ca/doomsda...arctic-2/23503

I'm asking that ALL professional breeders investigate contributing seed to the Norwegian Seed Bank at Svalbard. Please contribute all kinds of strains, especially land races and IBL's.

This is vitally important to the future of the World. It may also prove to be of vital importance to the Cannabis Industry.

I do not know what the attitude/policies of the management of the facility is. There are also other similar facilities around the world.

I wanted to put this thread in the vendors section, but I am not allowed to start threads there. Thank you for your efforts.
Sincerely,
Granger2

"[/FONT]The seed vault functions like a safe deposit box in a bank. The bank owns the building and the depositor owns the contents of his or her box. The Government of Norway owns the facility and the depositing genebanks own the seeds they send. The deposit of samples in Svalbard does not constitute a legal transfer of genetic resources. In genebank terminology this is called a "black box" arrangement. Each depositor signs a Deposit Agreement with NordGen, acting on behalf of Norway. The Agreement makes clear that Norway does not claim ownership over the deposited samples and that ownership remains with the depositor, who has the sole right of access to those materials in the seed vault. No one has access to anyone else's seeds from the seed vault.[11][17] The database of samples and depositors is maintained by NordGen.[18]"

 

[Pepe le skunk]

Just imagine the last 2 humans on earth in that seed bank planting the cannabis seeds and smoking good bud and forgetting to grow the other food crops. lol
Need a fake picture of that.

 

[sprinkl]

I agree with a good part of that, but it'd take a Vandana Shiva, not a Bill Gates... and I wholeheartedly agree that it would be great to have an actual resource for rare and just plain crossed out of existence strains... but to have some seed hoard that is akin to a safety deposit box doesn't actually help propagate species.... then there's the viability issue of keeping fresh stock...
In my view, it would need to be many many small collectives so to speak... in which each contributing member have access to their vault's catalog, with the emphasis being on contributions, and each few genetic "withdrawals" would require genetic "deposits" or some such method of not only propagating species of cannabis... not for the hoard, or the profit, but instead intending only to spread the best genetics as far and widely as possible, and also to preserve the very best of them through actual use.... as things progressed each collectives catalog would grow to include other genetics via trading with neighboring collectives because the emphasis is on giving seed back to the collective so there would be surplus seed... until just about everyone has access to most things...
now thats a future I could get behind... but I simply can't imagine greed not getting in the way somewhere...

I'll start up the first chapter... I'll plug in my deep freeze and anyone who throws down seed shares in whatever's in there as long as ya keep tossin in seeds LOL... If you take the 50th from last seed you're required to do a male female pollination.... that leaves seed for others and gives time to replace them... Male isolation chambers for everyone...


I mean... something like that could work... I just don't see an unusable hoard somewhere in the clouds as a solution...

I don't know, using one female/male is not a good idea, hell if you do an open pollination with ALL the seeds you would be changing the genetics.. Especially if you're doing that in different environments than where the plant originally grew.
Then its better to deepfreeze even if you lose 90% of the seeds after x years... Even with unviable seeds the dna could be recovered and cloned so I believe its best to at least partially bet on complete preservation rather than completely bet on breeding with those genetics, changing them ultimately...

 

[Only Ornamental]

...

BTW, I have maybe 50 million Cannabis seeds in my collections. I wish they had all been frozen all this time most were conserved at +4C.
Thousands of varieties, collected local landraces and hybrids I made from them. As well as industrial hemp seeds I collected.
I try to have 5,000 minimum of any variety I collect, enough to grow out two crops in case of any crop failures, but I don't often have a full 5,000 of imported rare land races, I do try, it is about 100 grams. Sometimes I only get 100 seeds or 2 grams, such is life.
...

Hi Sam,
Thanks for the insights.
Out of mere curiosity, do you have plans for propagating at least the pure varieties such as landraces and old cultivars from time to time? Especially those not frozen won't get better over time .
What future for all those 'treasures' do you envision?
It may be asked too much, but do you by any chance happen to have samples of Kompolti Sargaszaru or another yellow stemmed variety and Bocsa's Panorama in your vault? I wonder mainly about the latter because Bocsa called it 'the worlds only ornamental hemp cultivar'. I picked my nick cause of that and sentimentality has it that I think it would be great if that variety wouldn't get lost in history .

 

[oldchuck]

Okay, Sam, I appreciate your insights regarding Svalbard however I get the idea that you very much support Cannabis genetic diversity preservation and Cannabis seed banking. So, with your millions of seeds what are you going to do about it? How about starting a Cannabis Seed Savers Exchange? You have the raw material for a very good start. I'd support it, in my own small way.