Hillary Clinton isn’t blowing smoke when she says she’s open to legalizing marijuana

[rives]

Bush and Obama are horrible for the country, and comparing one against the other does us no good.

Bingo. As I've pointed out repeatedly, I thought that Bush was a shoe-in for the worst President in my lifetime. Obama put the lie to that in a hurry. As an article I read a few weeks ago stated - "Obama is the President that Nixon always wanted to be".

 

[jayjayfrank]

yes, the perspective is to stop mistaking details for how horrible everything is, soon as that starts happening the discussion can move forward


forever arguing "but MY guy isnt as bad as that OTHER guy" means we still arnt on the same page

 

[Jhhnn]

As Gnome pointed out already, the number of executive orders is far less pertinent than what they addressed. The number per year is completely irrelevant considering that Bush is long done and Obama appears to be just warming to the task. In actuality, most of Obama's more egregious decisions have been implemented via memorandums rather than executive orders.

Nice red herring, though.

Sigh. Captain Ginyu claimed that an increase in executive orders was a sign of creeping fascism. There has been no such increase. Example-wise, I could have easily used Clinton/Bush rather than Bush/Obama. Gnome shifts the rationale for that belief from the number of orders to the contents in a way that merely reveals an attitude, not a rational argument. I point that out. I offer up 2 examples of auhoritarian & far reaching executive orders of large importance. You back up Gnome's attitude with your own attitude offering no specific examples or reasons for having it.

On topic, I've offered my opinions about Hillary's stance on legalization & Obama's, too, along with my reasons for holding them in full light of Obama's complicity in Colorado legalization.

I detested GWB for a lot of reasons, but I give him credit where credit is due. He deserves praise for the senior drug benefit & for the creation of the nature preserve surrounding Palmyra island, for example.

Here, of all places, Obama deserves credit for his support of legalization in CO & also WA, provided they ever get their shit together. That support would be extended to all states who legalize, as well. Hillary just trots in right behind him, as does her husband. Those are not bad things for cannabis users, at all, but rather positive things that will help CO & others destroy any lingering rationale for prohibition. I think we should all be willing to recognize that & move on from there.

 

[rives]

As I'm reasonably sure that you are aware, the vast majority of people tend to lump Obama's excesses under the heading of "executive orders" rather than trying to break them down into the various options available to him. As I'm also sure you are aware, the knee-jerk left loves to point out your very argument, which is irrelevant. It might be interesting to compare the numbers to this point in their terms, but again, it's really meaningless and no more than mildly interesting. Obama could start signing 10 EO's a day for the remainder of his term, or not sign another one. Ever heard of the statistician that drowned in a body of water that had an average depth of 6"?

As I've pointed out to you before, I think that it is idiotic to praise Obama for his stance on mj - it has been far too inconsistent and he has been responsible for several times the number of busts, imprisonments, and dispensary raids than Bush ever dreamed of.

Oh yeah, we know..... it's because Colorado has done such a superlative job of putting their legislation together and they should be a model for the rest of the US. In the meantime, I suggest that you continue to keep your head down.

http://politix.topix.com/story/6883-obama-imprisons-80-more-medical-marijuana-growers-than-bush

Obama Imprisons 80% More Medical Marijuana Growers Than Bush
Medical marijuana users sent to prison under federal law, while complying with state law


Every month, medical marijuana growers are sent to federal prison despite having complied with state marijuana laws. And although in 2008 Obama promised to stop raids on medical marijuana growers, his Department of Justice has stepped them up.

"Obama is averaging 36 medical marijuana prosecutions a year, compared to 20 a year" under Bush, according to Reason.com, who base those numbers on a report published by pro-marijuana group NORML in June. "153 medical marijuana cases have been brought in the 4 ¼ years of the Obama administration, nearly as many as under the 8 years of the Bush administration (163)," according to NORML's report.

Some of those sentenced suffered from serious medical conditions for which they were themselves using the drug. Montanan grower Richard Flor died in August 2012 while serving a 5-year prison sentence in federal prison, after suffering two heart attacks and renal and kidney failure, according to Montana's Billings Gazette. Flor was using medical marijuana to treat conditions including depression, diabetes, and osteoporosis. He was a co-founder of Montana Cannabis, which provided marijuana for about 300 people with medical prescriptions for the drug. His attorneys argued that he had complied with all state laws.

Another grower sentenced to 10 years, Jerry Duval, was eventually allowed to serve his sentence in a prison that can treat his medical conditions, which include glaucoma and a kidney and pancreas transplant he required after suffering juvenile diabetes. "The DOJ originally sentenced Duval to standard federal prison despite a judge's recommendation that his medical condition be taken into account," according to the Huffington Post. Duval followed the marijuana laws in his home state of Michigan, according to court documents. He was sentenced along with 5 other Michigan growers.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

.

 

[Jhhnn]

In that you are at least partially correct, rives. Prior to this memo, US Attorneys operated under guidelines established long before Obama took office. US Attorneys have a great deal of independence in that, as well. Some are obviously hard line, as are some judges.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2013/August/13-opa-974.html

That was in 2013, after CO passed A64.

I make no attempt to justify policy prior to that. Some federal prosecutors are intent on following the letter of that directive rather than the spirit, weaseling their way into more of the same old shit.

The Obama Admin followed much the same pattern wrt deportations prior to changing policy, as well. Crack down hard- when the public predictably wakes up & raises Hell about it, reverse course & go the other way. That can easily be viewed as the intended outcome from the start.

 

[Jhhnn]

Im starting to think Jhhn is an Obama government troll. I've never seen anyone swing from someones nuts like he does, he's got probably 100 posts in this thread thats all obama love. The king can do no wrong Jhhn has an answer for everything.

The country is in absolute shambles, but as long as he can smoke legal weed nothing else matters I guess, but what he doesnt see is the weed legalization is just a pacifier and a distraction all the while a bunch of other sneaky underhanded shit is being done like the wave of illegals flooding over the border and Obama's dream of giving amnesty to all of them.

I think this place was better when they shit canned all of the political threads.

It's sad that you need to resort to scurrilous characterizations to maintain your POV & belief structure.

Obama does plenty of things I don't like. The drone war. Our continuing presence in Afghanistan. NSA. Gitmo. Weak response to the worst financial calamity since 1929.

In 2009, what we needed was a new New Deal. We didn't get it. Obviously, he's not the only reason for that, nor was he instrumental in creating that catastrophe.

Immigration is just a contrived distraction from issues like the instability and lack of opportunity presented in a depressed economy, the result of vast & growing inequality & the methods used to achieve it. There are other legit issues as well, like voting rights, women's rights, gay rights, financial reform, healthcare, corporate personhood & money as free speech.

They are beyond the scope of this thread, this discussion.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Im sorry Jhhn, you are just one of the most obnoxious posters I have ever had the displeasure of reading. I edited, arguing with a person like you is a frivolous waste of time. I fell for it hook line and sinker but it's just not worth it.

 

[Loc Dog]

Bingo. As I've pointed out repeatedly, I thought that Bush was a shoe-in for the worst President in my lifetime. Obama put the lie to that in a hurry. As an article I read a few weeks ago stated - "Obama is the President that Nixon always wanted to be".

GWB jr.'s election was fraud. Would have been impeached, if not for 9/11. He made military corp. whores, multi billionaires, which were all his supporters, while putting U.S. in Financial Death Spiral. Also making enemies all around the world.

Obama is completely incompetent, but no one would vote for Romney, or other Right wing whore's.

Right wants to give money to their friends and supporters, Left wants the poor to get free everything. Both are wrong. The middle is the sweet spot, and helps the most people.

Sorry for drunken ranting!!

 

[RetroGrow]

On topic, I've offered my opinions about Hillary's stance on legalization & Obama's, too, along with my reasons for holding them in full light of Obama's complicity in Colorado legalization.
Here, of all places, Obama deserves credit for his support of legalization in CO & also WA, provided they ever get their shit together. Hillary just trots in right behind him, as does her husband. Those are not bad things for cannabis users,

It's difficult to understand how you can be so deluded.
" Hillary's stance on legalization & Obama's, too"
What????? What "stance"??? They have no stance. They stand for waffling, and "wait & see, until all the evidence is in". Both are stone cold liars, and Slick Willie makes a threesome. Just some of the most despicable people ever to take power. Expressing belief in anything either of those three criminal liars spout is indicative of your bias and naivete.
"Obama's complicity in Colorado legalization."
Again, what????????
Obama had nothing to do with Colorado's legalization. He is just taking the "it's not my problem" attitude. Not "for". Not "against". Meanwhile, as Rives pointed out, there has been an INCREASE in federal cannabis cases under Obummer.
So the question remains: Do we dance with the devil just because you want legalization? Newsflash: some of us have been fighting for decriminalization for many decades, but we are still not willing to sell out to these despicable, lying hypocrites. Obama is not only a hypocrite, but he is a criminal. He has murdered hundreds by drone, many of them children. He presided over "fast & furious", supplying weapons to the Mexican cartel. Benghazzi, Solyndra, failure to protect our borders. His mission to destroy the white power base, and turn the U.S. into a third world country is well on it's way. Obama gave $535 MILLION dollars to Solyndra, who promptly went belly up. This is the equivalent of stealing $535 million from the tax payers.
Now he is destroying the southwestern United States by allowing millions of criminals to pour over our southern borders. This is the deliberate Balkanization of the United States. Numerous constitutional violations mark his ascendency to the throne, only this isn't a monarchy.
He sat in the most racist church in the country for over 20 years, while choosing it's racist pastor to be his mentor and write the forward to his book. This "pastor" is staunchly anti-white, supports the Black Panthers, etc., etc.
If Obama was not half black, he would have been impeached long ago. He should be impeached, arrested, and tried for his crimes.
Getting in bed with these lying scumbags to further our agenda does not compute. The NERVE of Bill Clinton to weigh in on this, after a lifetime of using illegal drugs, including cannabis, he now tries to appear as moderate, but when he was in office, he ramped up the "war on drugs", but commuted the sentences of his brother and friends. These people have no ethics whatsoever. They will say what they think most want to hear, but would never take a real stand. You have been duped if you believe in them, or you just don't really care about what direction the country is going (down, by the way), as long as you can use cannabis unfettered.
As badly as I want cannabis decriminalized, I will not lay down with these devils to get "my way".
If either of them had a shred of integrity, they would have come out staunchly for decriminalization long ago, particularly since two of the three were regular users of illegal drugs. They consider themselves above the law, and could care less about all the people who did the same things they did, but got prison time and their lives ruined for it.

 

[rives]

It's difficult to understand how you can be so deluded.
" Hillary's stance on legalization & Obama's, too"
What????? What "stance"??? They have no stance. They stand for waffling, and "wait & see, until all the evidence is in". Both are stone cold liars, and Slick Willie makes a threesome. Just some of the most despicable people ever to take power. Expressing belief in anything either of those three criminal liars spout is indicative of your bias and naivete.
"Obama's complicity in Colorado legalization."
Again, what????????
Obama had nothing to do with Colorado's legalization. He is just taking the "it's not my problem" attitude. Not "for". Not "against". Meanwhile, as Rives pointed out, there has been an INCREASE in federal cannabis cases under Obummer.
So the question remains: Do we dance with the devil just because you want legalization? Newsflash: some of us have been fighting for decriminalization for many decades, but we are still not willing to sell out to these despicable, lying hypocrites. Obama is not only a hypocrite, but he is a criminal. He has murdered hundreds by drone, many of them children. He presided over "fast & furious", supplying weapons to the Mexican cartel. Benghazzi, Solyndra, failure to protect our borders. His mission to destroy the white power base, and turn the U.S. into a third world country is well on it's way. Obama gave $535 MILLION dollars to Solyndra, who promptly went belly up. This is the equivalent of stealing $535 million from the tax payers.
Now he is destroying the southwestern United States by allowing millions of criminals to pour over our southern borders. This is the deliberate Balkanization of the United States. Numerous constitutional violations mark his ascendency to the throne, only this isn't a monarchy.
He sat in the most racist church in the country for over 20 years, while choosing it's racist pastor to be his mentor and write the forward to his book. This "pastor" is staunchly anti-white, supports the Black Panthers, etc., etc.
If Obama was not half black, he would have been impeached long ago. He should be impeached, arrested, and tried for his crimes.
Getting in bed with these lying scumbags to further our agenda does not compute. The NERVE of Bill Clinton to weigh in on this, after a lifetime of using illegal drugs, including cannabis, he now tries to appear as moderate, but when he was in office, he ramped up the "war on drugs", but commuted the sentences of his brother and friends. These people have no ethics whatsoever. They will say what they think most want to hear, but would never take a real stand. You have been duped if you believe in them, or you just don't really care about what direction the country is going (down, by the way), as long as you can use cannabis unfettered.
As badly as I want cannabis decriminalized, I will not lay down with these devils to get "my way".
If either of them had a shred of integrity, they would have come out staunchly for decriminalization long ago, particularly since two of the three were regular users of illegal drugs. They consider themselves above the law, and could care less about all the people who did the same things they did, but got prison time and their lives ruined for it.

Wowzers!

Nailed it.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to RetroGrow again"

 

[rbt]

Forget the parties if just one simple thing could be changed on the federal level is the classification of Cannabis. We have to go to our congressman that are against it's study and use and ask them to validate that with hard science. I believe it is an argument that cant be won by anything less than huge amounts of money against it. The only concerned party there is the States. So there is the other front to defend against the hold out States. The run for the White House is superfluous in this matter.

 

[Loc Dog]

Forget the parties if just one simple thing could be changed on the federal level is the classification of Cannabis. We have to go to our congressman that are against it's study and use and ask them to validate that with hard science. I believe it is an argument that cant be won by anything less than huge amounts of money against it. The only concerned party there is the States. So there is the other front to defend against the hold out States. The run for the White House is superfluous in this matter.

It has been assumed, that alcohol and tobacco (which are way worse) money has funded criminalization.

 

[OGShaman]

Maybe it was just me, but I didn't get the impression that Hilary was pro-cannabis.

She said that there was only anecdotal (i.e. no proof) that MJ is helpful medically, and that 2 states took it upon themselves to test recreational, but the jury is still out.

It wasn't a resounding endorsement. Again, that was just my impression as someone who actually watched the show.

 

[rbt]

Without a clear defined classification this is the kind of political foot ball played with cannabis.
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/gov...cle_e8b6df2c-8474-5c29-bf8b-619b46c55e75.html

 

[Loc Dog]

Without a clear defined classification this is the kind of political foot ball played with cannabis.
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/gov...cle_e8b6df2c-8474-5c29-bf8b-619b46c55e75.html

Hillary is typical shallow, owned by party POS, like O, and GWB, and GWB sr.. Bill Clinton may be also, but that was best time in my life, economy, and no war wise.

 

[OGShaman]

I don't trust any of these career politicians that don't want to get a real job, they just want to make money off of "serving" the people. That being said this country was in good shape under Bill Clinton. The only thing they could find to bitch about was that he got a blowjob.

The bottom dropped out under the second Bush..

 

[the gnome]

Your vague & unsubstantiated argument wrt the importance of those orders is merely self-confirmation of what you already believe. It's not like Obama ordered the internment of Japanese Americans or authorized the creation of the detention facility at Gitmo, either.
Perspective. Get some.

jhhn,
I didn't make any issue of importance to the number of EOs but actually said content was what was more what we should look at and not the numbers of EOs

but whi;e your on the subject of vague arguments
i am not drifting off into what happened over 70rs ago with the japanenese... and establishing a base in cuba
and yes, I think perspective is really needed, your starting to sound like stasis

 

[the gnome]

It's difficult to understand how you can be so deluded.
" Hillary's stance on legalization & Obama's, too"
What????? What "stance"??? They have no stance. They stand for waffling, and "wait & see, until all the evidence is in". Both are stone cold liars, and Slick Willie makes a threesome. Just some of the most despicable people ever to take power. Expressing belief in anything either of those three criminal liars spout is indicative of your bias and naivete.
"Obama's complicity in Colorado legalization."
Again, what????????
Obama had nothing to do with Colorado's legalization. He is just taking the "it's not my problem" attitude. Not "for". Not "against". Meanwhile, as Rives pointed out, there has been an INCREASE in federal cannabis cases under Obummer.
So the question remains: Do we dance with the devil just because you want legalization? Newsflash: some of us have been fighting for decriminalization for many decades, but we are still not willing to sell out to these despicable, lying hypocrites. Obama is not only a hypocrite, but he is a criminal. He has murdered hundreds by drone, many of them children. He presided over "fast & furious", supplying weapons to the Mexican cartel. Benghazzi, Solyndra, failure to protect our borders. His mission to destroy the white power base, and turn the U.S. into a third world country is well on it's way. Obama gave $535 MILLION dollars to Solyndra, who promptly went belly up. This is the equivalent of stealing $535 million from the tax payers.
Now he is destroying the southwestern United States by allowing millions of criminals to pour over our southern borders. This is the deliberate Balkanization of the United States. Numerous constitutional violations mark his ascendency to the throne, only this isn't a monarchy.
He sat in the most racist church in the country for over 20 years, while choosing it's racist pastor to be his mentor and write the forward to his book. This "pastor" is staunchly anti-white, supports the Black Panthers, etc., etc.
If Obama was not half black, he would have been impeached long ago. He should be impeached, arrested, and tried for his crimes.
Getting in bed with these lying scumbags to further our agenda does not compute. The NERVE of Bill Clinton to weigh in on this, after a lifetime of using illegal drugs, including cannabis, he now tries to appear as moderate, but when he was in office, he ramped up the "war on drugs", but commuted the sentences of his brother and friends. These people have no ethics whatsoever. They will say what they think most want to hear, but would never take a real stand. You have been duped if you believe in them, or you just don't really care about what direction the country is going (down, by the way), as long as you can use cannabis unfettered.
As badly as I want cannabis decriminalized, I will not lay down with these devils to get "my way".
If either of them had a shred of integrity, they would have come out staunchly for decriminalization long ago, particularly since two of the three were regular users of illegal drugs. They consider themselves above the law, and could care less about all the people who did the same things they did, but got prison time and their lives ruined for it.

spot on retro, hitting the nail Squarely on the head

that's pretty much indefensible
BUT
impractical + ideology + ideologues = deluded
as anyone that has gone back and forth as i have a for a few months now with jhhn over any issue to do with obozo's misdeeds knows or should,
he is an ideologue that will defend the indefensible when ever he can,
or call it hate, racisim and negativity, its not his fault or its still bushes fault,
or shut it out altogether.
this is what we have with obama, plus arrogance, lying and criminality beyond anything that has been
in the white house since nixon.
only nixon was merely your run of the mill corrupt POS politician.
Obama is much more dangerous, a communist/socialist, an impractical idealist following an ideology that is 180degree's from
america's constitutional republic.

progressive liberal ideologues like obama leading anything is a very dangerous mix and obama knows exactly how to lead his band of
*useful idiots* for his purpose of Fundamentally changing the US.
Ive heard Obozo as being viewed by the left as messiah by the right,
that was quite a stretch, even for me.
but when i see obviously intelligent and educated people actually believing this man has done no wrong
and/or he is the messiah it it boggles the mind and scares the shit out of me.
these types of ideologues run so deep into their ideology they see no wrong and will explain it away no matter how absurd the level of defending the indefensible becomes,
and Ive seen soooooo much of that on a daily basis.
despite your obvious intelligence you seem to portray the image of this brand of ideologue to a tee Jhhnn

speaking of seemingly intelligent and educated people that could somehow come to believe Obama is a messiah one only has to look at barbara walters another prog/lib and her astounding view of Obozo being the prog-libs messiah
and again scares me because she isn't alone in her belief.

this is extremely dangerous and disturbing when people start elevating anyone much less an Ideologue of obama's arrogant proportions to a messiah and put him in control of the most powerful nation on this planet.
again and again, history has shown what this combination of circumstnces is capable of.
you only need to look the national socialism and communism ideological madness that ensued in europe in the 20s 30s and on

 

[jayjayfrank]

its amazing that none of us are on the same side but all of us are able to pick up on someones very specific opinion that the rest of us see as delusional... and it just so happens to be inline with mainstream media grandiose pageantry

huh

i mean we do know the alphabet boys troll for a living thanks to snowden....