Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[Drek]

It basically says that plants respond differently to varying amounts of red(r) and far-red(fr) in their environment. One example, would be 'shade avoidance'. ie: A plant will sense increasing amounts of far red(darkness/shade) at it's sides, and it will respond by trying to grow taller to find light. They use color to sense and respond to their environment.

 

[RikkiTikkiTavi]

Nine vertical Super Silos, for the WIN! Thirty six plants = four per silo, perfect. Plenty of room to move around, would need a total of 18 thouies @ 2 per Silo. Just for another perspective on how to build out that room...

I'm averaging just under two per plant, with recently installed improvements I should bump the average up to 2 1/2# per. Ten per silo, ninety per run in your space.

your setup involves a lot of training the plants though right?

my ultimate goal is to have the operation as automated as possible, so the time i spend with the plants is mostly time i want to spend, not have to.

i'm looking to maximize yield and quality, and minimize effort and time requirements.

 

[Jhhnn]

Okay, double posting, but with a purpose; you all have talked me into grabbing a case of these 860W CDM lamps. I have the ideal setup- I can even run one of these in the same silo as an HPS thouie and let the plant show me which it likes best.

I kinda figured you would. It's only $150- a small gamble, at worst. I'd suggest looking them over very carefully, test firing each one for about half an hour just to be sure about them. All I know for sure is that Canblack def did right by me.

See that red X on the lamp wrapper in Miles' pic? I was pretty baked at the time, needed a way to keep 'em straight.

 

[Ttystikk]

your setup involves a lot of training the plants though right?

my ultimate goal is to have the operation as automated as possible, so the time i spend with the plants is mostly time i want to spend, not have to.

i'm looking to maximize yield and quality, and minimize effort and time requirements.

...and so am I. Yes, there will be some time spent training plants, because of the dramatically increased surface area of the canopy. What you get out will reflect what you put in, as always.

My system is indeed built to maximize productivity, or return for time spent. But I'm not going to tell you there isn't effort involved- the potential returns alone require a massive number of manhours to process.

Therefore, I can confidently say you'll spend less time per unit of yield in the vertical Super Silo garden than with most other methods. Training need not be a continuous process; I've been pretty episodic and the plants respond well as long as things are done on time. No surprises there...

 

[Ttystikk]

I kinda figured you would. It's only $150- a small gamble, at worst. I'd suggest looking them over very carefully, test firing each one for about half an hour just to be sure about them. All I know for sure is that Canblack def did right by me.

See that red X on the lamp wrapper in Miles' pic? I was pretty baked at the time, needed a way to keep 'em straight.

On the strength of your recommendations, I'm pulling the trigger on some today. Mag thouie ballast only, vertical only, replaces thousand watt. I'm all for manna from the Internet, LOL

Of course I'll keep my Silo thread updated!

 

[RikkiTikkiTavi]

...and so am I. Yes, there will be some time spent training plants, because of the dramatically increased surface area of the canopy. What you get out will reflect what you put in, as always.

My system is indeed built to maximize productivity, or return for time spent. But I'm not going to tell you there isn't effort involved- the potential returns alone require a massive number of manhours to process.

Therefore, I can confidently say you'll spend less time per unit of yield in the vertical Super Silo garden than with most other methods. Training need not be a continuous process; I've been pretty episodic and the plants respond well as long as things are done on time. No surprises there...

definitely a subjective evaluation, which is why there are so many ways to do it. we each find the way that suits us best.

with two rooms, with one room always in flower, and something i didn't mention but another two rooms under my wifes license down the road, with both of us working full time jobs, and family responsibilities, minimal time requirements are definitely high in the yield/quality vs time evaluation.

 

[Ttystikk]

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmea860.htm

Link to page with Philips 860W CDM BT37, showing spectrum graph. So these lose a lot of light in the first year, just like HPS. Spectrum distribution is better than HPS, though.

What should I expect vs new Plantmax HPS thouies?

 

[Jhhnn]

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmea860.htm

Link to page with Philips 860W CDM BT37, showing spectrum graph. So these lose a lot of light in the first year, just like HPS. Spectrum distribution is better than HPS, though.

What should I expect vs new Plantmax HPS thouies?

Results more like those of other CMH users than like HPS. More like natural sunshine. Likely less stretch. You and Miles are our test pilots for this particular lamp, remember?

Your setup lends itself particularly well to a side by side comparison, which is great.

 

[Ericos]

Just thought I chime in on my new project. I'm revamping my flower room with all cmh. Half the room will be running 2 OG hoods with the 860s, the other half with 4 horizonals with the mogul 315s. Lamps were bought from advtech. I'm trying to source the eye hortilux Cera arc 660w cmh that uses a 700w mercury vapor ballasts to test with but just a bit harder to acquire. Added some attachments. Goin quality over quantity. I used to run solis tek ballast and 2 1000s & 3 600s all hps. Room will be running full swing by Friday. Been doing my in-depth research on these cmhs for a while and was confident to the point that I sold my digital ballast to a friend.

 

[rives]

Sounds very interesting, Ericos. Personally, I would love to see how the 315w CDM would perform in the OG hoods. I don't have the headroom to make it work, but it seems like it might hold a lot of promise.

 

[Ericos]

I would like to try out that hortilux cmh I mentioned because of a good spike in the reds in that bulb but we'll see. I have a plasma also that be in the flo to. Camelion has a 500w plasma releasing next month for those interested. I have 4 mothers that'll be in this setup all getting sgrog'd. One will be about 8 feet wide after I gap here: ) images attached. Awww my little beast.

 

[squarepush3r]

hey all, I am a pretty big noob on CMH, but if I wanted to run a few 315W Philips Agro bulbs, which ballast can they run off? I know CMH cannot be used with digital ballasts, will the 315W Agro work with 400W HPS ballast? thanks!

 

[Ericos]

Well did some revisions on lights and what was going were. Looks like the big girl is going under 2 315's and 1 plasma. The rest will be under 2 860's and a 315. Need to still space the hoods right and will be lifting out the glass later. The other 315 will be for another endeavor.

Have been thinking about adding some kessil red leds either the 150 series or the magenta 350 series around the hoods for that red nanometer boosts but still need to see how it does as is.

My revamp so far. It'll be up and running tomorrow.

 

[Ericos]

I know advance tech lighting sells the phillips ballast tthat operates the 315 agro but you need to wire up connectors and is 240v so you'll need a step down transformer to run 120v. that's your best bet for the costs.

 

[rives]

hey all, I am a pretty big noob on CMH, but if I wanted to run a few 315W Philips Agro bulbs, which ballast can they run off? I know CMH cannot be used with digital ballasts, will the 315W Agro work with 400W HPS ballast? thanks!

The 315 will only run on a select few electronic ballasts that are purpose-built for it. The Philips that Ericos mentioned is probably the best bet for being both (relatively) economical and reliable, the GEL is offered by both GEL and Cycloptics, and there is a Chinese one that nobody has tried to run yet. The lamp requires low-frequency power and will not run on the high-frequency electronic ballasts that are commonly available.

 

[Drek]

hey all, I am a pretty big noob on CMH, but if I wanted to run a few 315W Philips Agro bulbs, which ballast can they run off? I know CMH cannot be used with digital ballasts, will the 315W Agro work with 400W HPS ballast? thanks!

Likes Rives said, you'd want the Philip's electronic ballasts for the 315; the Retro-White 400w is the conversion CDM bulb that works with 400w HPS ballasts.

860w - High-wattage CDM. 3700k
315w Agro- Nice med-wattage CDM. Higher cost. 3100k
Retro 400w - Cost effective, easy and nice lamp. HPS Compatible. 4000k

 

[Ericos]

Likes Rives said, you'd want the Philip's electronic ballasts for the 315; the Retro-White 400w is the conversion CDM bulb that works with 400w HPS ballasts.

860w - High-wattage CDM. 3700k
315w Agro- Nice med-wattage CDM. Higher cost. 3100k
Retro 400w - Cost effective, easy and nice lamp. HPS Compatible. 4000k

If you want to use the agro in another hood other than sunlights' you'll need a pgzx18 lamp socket to retrofit your hood. I got some from mitronix. There are many versions of the 315s also

Phillips has also stoped production of the hps retro series so it's kinda pointless to go that route since bulb stock will eventually run out.

T9 315 3k,4k,agro-enclosed fixture rated pgz18 base
T12 315 3k,4k,agro-open fixture rated pgzx18 base
Mogul 315 4k-open fixture rated mogul base

 

[Drek]

Phillips has also stoped production of the hps retro series so it's kinda pointless to go that route since bulb stock will eventually run out.

2 facts.

- There are still lots of Retro's available on the aftermarket. I know I just picked up 10 of them for a great price.
- Retro's still grow great plants. I just finished a run a week ago with one.

Just because they're a little older doesn't change how they grow plants...all it does is make them cheaper, while still being available.
They put off good PPFD with an excellent spectrum. They are protected, they are cool running and they are backwards compatible with HPS(for people that already have the ballasts). If anything, the Retro while being old, is still quite a bit more advanced than many bulbs manufactured today. I really don't care about efficiency at such a low amount of used power. Total cost for 25+ years worth of 400w lamps? $250. Agro lamp is nice, but just wasn't as attractive as the Retro(for me) cost wise; Retro has already proven to grow exceeding expectations.

 

[Ericos]

Drek, you are correct in the proveness of the retro as a quality lamp. I personally like to have efficiency play a role in ballast/lamp setups to some extent. Even the a 315 agro has a better umol than the moguls I'm using. One of the main reasons I favor the moguls is for the uvb output, .1mW, and it has a decent broad spectrum. The 860 is fairly low, .03mW, like the agro, .02mW.

If I had the funds/electrical I'd buy a accendoe digital ballast to run the 860 cmh but they're around 350-400$ and to have the proper Hz and pulse kv you need to run it in 277v which I don't have a 3 phrase grid nor a buck boost transformer otherwise for single phase. They are multi volt but for the proper lamp operation according the there test reports and phillips own lamp specs 277v will be needed. Would be great for high watt cmh commercial grow setup that usually have 3 phase available.

 

[squarepush3r]

Thanks for input all, I looked on the Advanced Tech page, for 315W CMH

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmmw.htm

but noticed they only carry the 315W 4k bulb (not the Agro bulb). Any idea if this is just to save money by carrying less products, or if there are actual disadvantages to running the 315W Agro? My initial impression was that the Agro was the best for horticulture/plants.

Cheers!