The numbers on single solvent dewaxing? not good

[whiterasta]

Yes I know what a time weighted average is and will break it down further.
2m/m3/8hrs =.25mg/m3/hr avg However it is calculated by addition of various exposure rates divided by the number of different exposures. All it takes is one 2mg exposure to meet the limit in 8 hrs or one can have any number of exposure levels below that that when added and averaged are less than 2mg. So Ricky bong, any clue how many tokes it takes to get to 2mg/8hrs? This one is rich, as your own point tanks your argument since a single toke of some concentrates will give you several days worth of exposure.
As for starting it with an agenda? Hell yes I did, which was to bring to light a real issue that so far you fall flat in response to. While we are talking agenda, What is yours? Do you work for the paraffin industry? LMAO! You seem to want to smoke it and really wish to believe it is OK to smoke it, and you know what I do not give a rat's ass if YOU do. However when the products are on the shelves and regulation gets it's legs under it. You will need to bring all your weak arguments to the table and convince the guys running the show it is safe. Can you do this? If yes. It will be great practice when you are explaining to the liquor board or health authority(whoever ends up regulating concentrates) why having a noxious adulterant in the product is A-OK in any concentration

 

[whiterasta]

Rasta,

"You're making a lot of assumptions about who I am and my background."



"Our experience with regulatory institutions are completely different, mine would dictate a much more rigorous approach."



The rigorous approach is what I am calling for. Just as RSA has changed the game due to set regulatory standards. Residual Lipid Analysis will change it again.



"With regards to the appropriateness of winterizing, if you read my posts carefully, you will notice I never made any assertions re your claims one way or the other."



Not sure what you are saying here


"What I did do was press you for rigor in your data to support your claims. So I'm not sure what you mean by "denial"?



I presented the same data a regulatory agency would find. That there is any question they follow existing guidelines and data is ridiculous.


"I have a technical back ground; I will admit that I'm not use to this "game playing" technique you're describing. But I guess I should have known better, after all I am on a "pot-head" site. I'll consider it a lesson learned."



I have a technical back ground and am not used to personal attacks being part of the vetting process for information Or what standards which exist being irrelevant to the issue



"In my environment, when a technical claim is made, or a new process is described, people take that stuff seriously and provide appropriate analytical supportive material."



I hope they take this seriously. As for analysis. It is coming. My purpose was to demonstrate why it is needed. What the problem is. And what the bar which will be used to judge will be.



"When it comes to you're "burden of proof" comment, I have to say, it seems like there's some "time" spatial disconnect stuff going on there --- I like to deal with causal systems."



think of it this way. If someone wishes to sell a new product on the open market the ingredient must be shown to be GRAS ( generally recognized as safe) which if the concentrate was just being eaten the paraffin content is GRAS, and indeed it is used in foods like chocolate. However the purpose of the product is not ingestion it is vaporization. At that point the burden of proving it GRAS is on you.


"And yeah, the "ass" crack was pretty childish, but you gotta admit it was funny, (well maybe not to you)."



I can appreciate the immature humor in it. My kids made jokes like that before they grew up

"I do appreciate books and hard copy -- the link will be much appreciated.

"

Expect to pay Wiley or Springerlink about 40 bucks if I am published.

 

[Dilly B]

would this "over the exposure limit of paraffin" also apply to ice wax? i would think it would and more so than a solvent extract. could anyone confirm this? whiterasta? very intrigued by this entire topic and thread . thank you

 

[KiefSweat]

?-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) Boiling point: 157*C / 314.6 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic

cannabidiol (CBD) Boiling point: 160-180*C / 320-356 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Anxiolytic, Analgesic, Antipsychotic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antispasmodic

Cannabinol (CBN) Boiling point: 185*C / 365 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Oxidation, breakdown, product, Sedative, Antibiotic

cannabichromene (CBC) Boiling point: 220*C / 428 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

cannabigerol (CBG) Boiling point: MP52 Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

?-8-tetrahydrocannabinol (?-8-THC) Boiling point: 175-178*C / 347-352.4 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Resembles ?-9-THC, Less psychoactive, More stable Antiemetic

tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV) Boiling point: < 220*C / <428 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Analgesic, Euphoriant

Terpenoid essential oils, their boiling points, and properties

ß-myrcene Boiling point: 166-168*C / 330.8-334.4 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Analgesic. Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antimutagenic

ß-caryophyllene Boiling point: 119*C / 246.2 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antiinflammatory, Cytoprotective (gastric mucosa), Antimalarial

d-limonene Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Cannabinoid agonist?, Immune potentiator, Antidepressant, Antimutagenic

linalool Boiling point: 198*C / 388.4 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Sedative, Antidepressant, Anxiolytic, Immune potentiator

pulegone Boiling point: 224*C / 435.2 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Memory booster?, AChE inhibitor, Sedative, Antipyretic

1,8-cineole (eucalyptol) Boiling point: 176*C / 348.8 degree Fahrenheit Properties: AChE inhibitor, Increases cerebral, blood flow, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antiviral, Antiinflammatory, Antinociceptive

a-pinene Boiling point: 156*C / 312.8 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antiinflammatory, Bronchodilator, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antineoplastic, AChE inhibitor

a-terpineol Boiling point: 217-218*C / 422.6-424.4 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Sedative, Antibiotic, AChE inhibitor, Antioxidant, Antimalarial

terpineol-4-ol Boiling point: 209*C / 408.2 degree Fahrenheit Properties: AChE inhibitor. Antibiotic

p-cymene Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antibiotic, Anticandidal, AChE inhibitor

Flavonoid and phytosterol components, their boiling points, and properties

apigenin Boiling point: 178*C / 352.4 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Anxiolytic, Antiinflammatory, Estrogenic

quercetin Boiling point: 250*C / 482 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antioxidant, Antimutagenic, Antiviral, Antineoplastic

cannflavin A Boiling point: 182*C / 359.6 degree Fahrenheit Properties: COX inhibitor, LO inhibitor

ß-sitosterol Boiling point: 134*C / 273.2 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antiinflammatory, 5-a-reductase, inhibitor

Paraffin wax is a white or colorless soft solid derivable from petroleum, coal or shale, that consists of a mixture of hydrocarbon molecules containing between twenty and forty carbon atoms.... its boiling point is >370 °C (698 °F).


Don't hit red hot nails would have been a lot easier to say.

 

[whiterasta]

would this "over the exposure limit of paraffin" also apply to ice wax? i would think it would and more so than a solvent extract. could anyone confirm this? whiterasta? very intrigued by this entire topic and thread . thank you

Indeed this is an important issue that will consistently arise. First let me begin by explaining that a Non-polar extract does not remove all the terpenoids or flavinoids present in the plant and it's natural concentrates. Among these are Quercetin, kaempherol, guaiazulene and it's isomers. All of these act as potent anti-histamine/expectorants present in natural cannabis and mechanical hash. In particular are the azulenes which can stop anaphalaxis due to histamine with incredible speed. For years hydrated polar terpene was known as terpin hydrate an expectorant /cough suppressant similar to guaifenesin.This is an established effect of some terpenes that they act as expectorants ( Vicks is one example) Note some terpenes , not all.

Non polar extracts do not remove many of these compounds, in particular the azulenes which are the most potent in action. Thus much of the properties of natural plant products are not extracted and the more polar expectorant /antihistaminic action does not occur.

This information was derived from a large number of sources and while it is presented as theory, it is based on solid information regarding solubilities of active naturally occurring expectorants know to be in the plant not soluble in butane and thus not in a non-polar concentrate.
Here is a polar extraction of the azulene fraction which is not soluble in butane that has amazingly potent anti-histamine qualities of which I speak with first hand knowledge

 

[whiterasta]

?-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) Boiling point: 157*C / 314.6 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic

cannabidiol (CBD) Boiling point: 160-180*C / 320-356 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Anxiolytic, Analgesic, Antipsychotic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antispasmodic

Cannabinol (CBN) Boiling point: 185*C / 365 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Oxidation, breakdown, product, Sedative, Antibiotic

cannabichromene (CBC) Boiling point: 220*C / 428 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

cannabigerol (CBG) Boiling point: MP52 Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

?-8-tetrahydrocannabinol (?-8-THC) Boiling point: 175-178*C / 347-352.4 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Resembles ?-9-THC, Less psychoactive, More stable Antiemetic

tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV) Boiling point: < 220*C / <428 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Analgesic, Euphoriant

Terpenoid essential oils, their boiling points, and properties

ß-myrcene Boiling point: 166-168*C / 330.8-334.4 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Analgesic. Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antimutagenic

ß-caryophyllene Boiling point: 119*C / 246.2 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antiinflammatory, Cytoprotective (gastric mucosa), Antimalarial

d-limonene Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Cannabinoid agonist?, Immune potentiator, Antidepressant, Antimutagenic

linalool Boiling point: 198*C / 388.4 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Sedative, Antidepressant, Anxiolytic, Immune potentiator

pulegone Boiling point: 224*C / 435.2 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Memory booster?, AChE inhibitor, Sedative, Antipyretic

1,8-cineole (eucalyptol) Boiling point: 176*C / 348.8 degree Fahrenheit Properties: AChE inhibitor, Increases cerebral, blood flow, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antiviral, Antiinflammatory, Antinociceptive

a-pinene Boiling point: 156*C / 312.8 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antiinflammatory, Bronchodilator, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antineoplastic, AChE inhibitor

a-terpineol Boiling point: 217-218*C / 422.6-424.4 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Sedative, Antibiotic, AChE inhibitor, Antioxidant, Antimalarial

terpineol-4-ol Boiling point: 209*C / 408.2 degree Fahrenheit Properties: AChE inhibitor. Antibiotic

p-cymene Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antibiotic, Anticandidal, AChE inhibitor

Flavonoid and phytosterol components, their boiling points, and properties

apigenin Boiling point: 178*C / 352.4 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Anxiolytic, Antiinflammatory, Estrogenic

quercetin Boiling point: 250*C / 482 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antioxidant, Antimutagenic, Antiviral, Antineoplastic

cannflavin A Boiling point: 182*C / 359.6 degree Fahrenheit Properties: COX inhibitor, LO inhibitor

ß-sitosterol Boiling point: 134*C / 273.2 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antiinflammatory, 5-a-reductase, inhibitor

Paraffin wax is a white or colorless soft solid derivable from petroleum, coal or shale, that consists of a mixture of hydrocarbon molecules containing between twenty and forty carbon atoms.... its boiling point is >370 °C (698 °F).


Don't hit red hot nails would have been a lot easier to say.

Excellent break down of boiling point. Did you consider the melt point depression of a solution? Ever wonder why the nail is not full of wax even on low temp?
This will help toss the notion of a cooler nail being the answer
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=F8bOLyBFQIR_9-q_9phTUQ&bvm=bv.68911936,d.cGU

 

[KiefSweat]

i've noticed a correlation with more char at lower temps.

I've assumed those are melted waxes and you notice more depending on the extraction process and refinement steps.

At a higher temp I could see this theory being more in line with the assumed diagnosis i've seen first hand at these events that the people giving out the dabs are dropping globs on glowing red hot nails.

Most people i know are running enails in the range of 575-650f or so, i'm not sure what the cup temp is at that

 

[jdee]

Setting my e-nail to 640f achieves a nail surface temp of 482f (verified with k type bead probe). Doing this gives me all the great taste and smoothness of winterized oil, without the need to winterize.

I have vaped the pure wax after winterizing and letting it dry just to see what it was adding to the dabs in terms of taste/effects. I would say the taste was from neutral to not great, and the effects were from none to slight/temporary decrease in lung capacity.

I'm a little confused as to how smoking flowers which still have paraffin are fine and of no concern, but removing useless plant matter and leaving the essential oil is now a concern.

 

[jd2]

Excellent break down of boiling point. Did you consider the melt point depression of a solution? Ever wonder why the nail is not full of wax even on low temp?
This will help toss the notion of a cooler nail being the answer
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=F8bOLyBFQIR_9-q_9phTUQ&bvm=bv.68911936,d.cGU

Rasta,

Exactly ---this is why you need to publish your data. I did this cal using available lab data and it was inconsequential.

 

[whiterasta]

i've noticed a correlation with more char at lower temps.

I've assumed those are melted waxes and you notice more depending on the extraction process and refinement steps.

At a higher temp I could see this theory being more in line with the assumed diagnosis i've seen first hand at these events that the people giving out the dabs are dropping globs on glowing red hot nails.

Most people i know are running enails in the range of 575-650f or so, i'm not sure what the cup temp is at that

If it is char then it is oxidized. this is where the whole issue really gets nasty. we have only discussed paraffin vapor as it is the foot in the door. The actual and real danger is the oxidation products of paraffin which are benzene, toluene and other nasty aromatic and noxious aliphatic compounds are produced when "charred"
That said any residual sugars will also char at low temps so analysis of the vapor constituents at various temps would be quite revealing at what temp the wax vaporizes in the mixture and what temp it decomposes in the mixture. Either way whatever is detected it will be a negative in regards to the paraffinic adulterants

 

[jd2]

Rasta,

Exactly ---this is why you need to publish your data. I did this cal using available lab data and it was inconsequential.

Duty calls, talk to you later.

 

[Rickys bong]

Dilly B asked

would this "over the exposure limit of paraffin" also apply to ice wax?

And you reply with a long winded explanation about compounds that don't get extracted by butane and don't answer the question. And then put up a picture of your supposed extraction of Azulene to show us how smart you are.

Are you actually saying that smoking hash, where you would ingest all of the waxes, is safe because of the antihistamine/ expectorants present and smoking concentrate that has a tiny fraction of waxes is not?
Seriously? Smoking anything is bad, everyone know that and nobody cares about your fear mongering.

How about presenting a better process for removing the waxes so people adopt your method? Instead of being so dickish and awing us with your superior knowledge and influence on regulatory policy....

the salient points which are that:

paraffinic waxes exist in cannabis.

That strict regulatory limits are placed on exposure to paraffin vapor.
That a non-polar extract has an amount of paraffin that exceeds the regulatory limit.

That SSD does not reduce this to an acceptable level.

Strict regulatory limits placed on WORKPLACE EXPOSURE. Not someone doing a recreational drug which is inherently unsafe.

Any "safe" level of smoking any type of cannabis product will likely be zero, not some level you think you will have influence over...
You still have provided Zero data to confirm the levels of waxes in SSD extracts.

I realize this is a kick in the nuts to dabs but better me than a regulatory agency,eh?

Riiiiiiiight.

Because the populace has so strictly conformed to previous regulations in place with reference to Cannabis.

/peace
RB

 

[whiterasta]

Dilly B asked

And you reply with a long winded explanation about compounds that don't get extracted by butane and don't answer the question. And then put up a picture of your supposed extraction of Azulene to show us how smart you are.

Are you actually saying that smoking hash, where you would ingest all of the waxes, is safe because of the antihistamine/ expectorants present and smoking concentrate that has a tiny fraction of waxes is not?
Seriously? Smoking anything is bad, everyone know that and nobody cares about your fear mongering.

How about presenting a better process for removing the waxes so people adopt your method? Instead of being so dickish and awing us with your superior knowledge and influence on regulatory policy....



Strict regulatory limits placed on WORKPLACE EXPOSURE. Not someone doing a recreational drug which is inherently unsafe.

Any "safe" level of smoking any type of cannabis product will likely be zero, not some level you think you will have influence over...
You still have provided Zero data to confirm the levels of waxes in SSD extracts.



Riiiiiiiight.

Because the populace has so strictly conformed to previous regulations in place with reference to Cannabis.

/peace
RB

Still at it? go hard or go home, right? W/E bong. you don't know enough to know what you don't know.You got nerve saying I am acting "dickish" but when kids like you don't get their way they lash out. If you had read the thread and could actually understand what you read you would have read to winterize with a second solvent. If asked I would outline the process but as yet have not been asked just railed at.
As for your ignorance about the polar terpenes , flavinoids and their action, well not many pups without a college chemistry background is gonna be able to get it, looks like your one.
You see son it does not matter how you twist it up there is a number that is used as a standard and it is what will be drug out when it is time to regulate.
Now I know I am being dickishly condescending to you at this point but son you can suck it for all I care. And when I say 'son' I mean stupid little prick

 

[Rickys bong]

As for your ignorance about the polar terpenes , flavinoids and their action, well not many pups without a college chemistry background is gonna be able to get it, looks like your one.

stupid little prick

wow, just wow.

Can you please answer this: Are you actually saying that smoking hash, where you would ingest all of the waxes, is safe because of the antihistamine/ expectorants present and smoking concentrate that has a tiny fraction of waxes is not?

Jerkoff suppository salesman

 

[Permacultuure]

Still at it? go hard or go home, right? W/E bong. you don't know enough to know what you don't know.You got nerve saying I am acting "dickish" but when kids like you don't get their way they lash out. If you had read the thread and could actually understand what you read you would have read to winterize with a second solvent. If asked I would outline the process but as yet have not been asked just railed at.
As for your ignorance about the polar terpenes , flavinoids and their action, well not many pups without a college chemistry background is gonna be able to get it, looks like your one.
You see son it does not matter how you twist it up there is a number that is used as a standard and it is what will be drug out when it is time to regulate.
Now I know I am being dickishly condescending to you at this point but son you can suck it for all I care. And when I say 'son' I mean stupid little prick

Rickys Bong has been behind the closed loop movement more than you realize, apparently.....He has blessed us with several "brain farts" that have changed the closed loop game, and still is.......THAT IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY PARRAFINS!!!

I'm not a chemist nor do I disagree that winterized products are much safer but the way you present yourself discredits anything you say.

Regulations on paraffin content?? Most states aren't even regulating residual solvent levels or even pesticides...

 

[Elements001]

So if I were to take Diphenhydramine and hydroxizine, both anti histamines, would it then be safer to smoke wax?

 

[whiterasta]

poor ass rashed children can dish out the insulting behavior but cry like bitches when confronted by it.
My good friend foaf was on C/L before anyone here, so ask how impressed I am by your little buddy or his belligerent tone. I am glad he has you to stick up for him.
If my matter of fact delivery can negate the facts to you then your an idiot too.

 

[DrySiftWizrd]

poor ass rashed children can dish out the insulting behavior but cry like bitches when confronted by it.
My good friend foaf was on C/L before anyone here, so ask how impressed I am by your little buddy or his belligerent tone. I am glad he has you to stick up for him.
If my matter of fact delivery can negate the facts to you then your an idiot too.

I love your information and this thread.. but lol.

 

[whiterasta]

So if I were to take Diphenhydramine and hydroxizine, both anti histamines, would it then be safer to smoke wax?

No you will fall alseep. Try quercetin,kaempherol,terpinoline, pinene and guaiazulene in combination. those are the primary relevant components in cannabis.you will want to provide some sort of nucleation point for the mucus and waxes to adhere to instead of the lung tissue so you can cough up the crud. that is if you wish to recreate similar conditions to natural cannabis products. That said "wax" is bad for your lungs obviously or I would not be so persistent about it.

 

[whiterasta]

I love your information and this thread.. but lol.

Yeah I know. oh well.... I only claim to have information not the patience of Job
have good one.