MH vs HPS for yield?

[Drek]

Wonderful, but still bitched out, yellow midgets in comparison to plants grown in optimal outdoor conditions.

God, I can't believe it's even debatable, but then again, anything is possible when it comes to ego. Nuclear war, religion...you name it.

 

[blissfest]

gnome, You do realize older big plants don't stretch near what little plants do of the same strain.

A 1-2' plant can more than double in height, but take the same strain and grow it to 4' and it might only go to 6'.

Common knowledge.

 

[blissfest]

Wonderful, but still bitched out, yellow midgets in comparison to plants grown in optimal outdoor conditions.

God, I can't believe it's even debatable, but then again, anything is possible when it comes to ego. Nuclear war, religion...you name it.

Quality with good yields indoors, massive quantity of less dense more leafy, lower quality buds outside.

 

[Drek]

I see you have NO followers Drek??

The only thing the ego is capable of when facing impending disaster, is insult. lol...

 

[the gnome]

hps is better than 4000k mh bloom... ?

then it should be a snap bliss to whip out any data you have from other sources.
since having never done a hps,mh side x side yourself or even MH bloom run
then your not credible to back up a thing kiddo
and when i say backup, I don't mean the other *2* master growers hanging with you in the last few pages

you've said nothing so far proving hps out does mh other than repeating it yourself like a chanting hare krishna


just prove it
thats a stretch for you
reasonable doubt...?

 

[Drek]

You have that exactly backwards. Inputs are consumed by the plant. If what you are suggesting were true you could plant the same plot over and over without adding anything to the soil for subsequent crops.

There is plenty of nitrogen available to an (outdoor) plant even during flowering. The plant uses less as it nears the end of it's life-cycle.
The problem with crop nutrient deficiencies, is human exploitation...

 

[acridlab]

Thought I would contribute to this thread,, I've grown my sour kush for over 3 years straight in a perpetual. It's seen outdoor, led, cfl, hps "horti" &ushio", cmh, various mh, and now 4000k mh..
I can say that my yields are coming out the same as when they were under hps with cmh supplement.. only difference to me is,, the plants are alot happier under 4000k mh.. and the overall appearance is better on final cured buds.. and the aroma is kicked up a bunch..
Other than that,, bout the same... try it before ya knock it..
Peace

Sour kush hps n cmh

sour kush 4000k mh

 

[blissfest]

hps is better than 4000k mh bloom... ?

then it should be a snap bliss to whip out any data you have from other sources
since having never done a side x side yourself, your not really not credible to back up a thing kiddo.
and when i say backup, I don't mean the other *2* master growers hanging with you in the last few pages lol.

bottom line is you've shown nothing to prove hps out does mh other than repeating it yourself like a chanting hare krishna


just prove it...
that's a stretch for you,
how about reasonable doubt

Kiddo?? Orderd my first seeds in the late 80's from High Times Mag. Northern lights straight from Nevil Martin Schoenmakers. Man I wish I some cuts that came from that stock.

And I don't have to prove shit, the MH guys do. Remember you're the ones trying to re-invent the wheel and convert all us HPS users, LOL!!!

Do a Poll here, THC Farmer, Cannazon, CannaCollective, Shunk Mag forums, Firestax, ********, and any other weed site you can think of and you will see HPS is the clear favorite in flower rooms around the world.

The best growers here at IC Mag don't seem to becoming too your aid? Only noobs like Drek are agreeing with you?

All the guys that started the whole thing, many from OverGrow, are all wrong and were using the wrong bulb? Guys in Colorado and in Cali that run 50-100 light rooms are all wrong for using Horti Super HPS's, give me a break, LMFAO!!!!!!!

 

[Classic Seeds]

hi not to add fuel to the fire raging about mh versus hps but the only mh I found that worked almost as well as hps was a phosphor coated bulb but even it did not do what a hps does they just have to many more luminums to not beat a mh in the flower room. look on the side of the box the lights come in the hps is just a way stronger output of what a plant wants in the flowering stage of growth ,a mh is better for vegging and the new double lights give you a full spectrum of light bands because they combine both lights together. yes you can grow all stages with a mh and get results worth having ,but they will be less than with a hps light used in the flowering stage .aloha cls

 

[the gnome]

hey acridlab
nice to see you contribute on the subject with experience,
substantial exp. I'd say dealing with differing spectrums in bloom to back up what your saying
I'd growing the the plant for 3 yrs lets you kno it up close and personal
i read back somewhere taste wasn't as good with HPS as Mh grown flowers, thats a new one to me?
did you notice any of that with your sour kush?

but Ive noticed other things with MH that were inexpected too.
another thing ive noticed in my last hps/Mh sidexside grow.
same 2 strains, and conditions.
some in hps and some in MH, other than the hps side stretching excessively to the point of having to crimp the top over compared to the very minimal for Mh
on the mh side, resin matured 8-10 days faster than the hps side.
that was the last time i ran hps for anything,
no way I'll run hps again to explore that one any further
(or for anything else) but it was an interesting observation for sure.

 

[blissfest]

hi not to add fuel to the fire raging about mh versus hps but the only mh I found that worked almost as well as hps was a phosphor coated bulb but even it did not do what a hps does they just have to many more luminums to not beat a mh in the flower room. look on the side of the box the lights come in the hps is just a way stronger output of what a plant wants in the flowering stage of growth ,a mh is better for vegging and the new double lights give you a full spectrum of light bands because they combine both lights together. yes you can grow all stages with a mh and get results worth having ,but they will be less than with a hps light used in the flowering stage .aloha cls

Right on CLS, good too see you man, The Seed Depot gig was a disaster, hope you didn't get screwed too hard. I have most of your gear in my collection and just cracked some of your C99. Take care.

 

[the gnome]

hi not to add fuel to the fire raging about mh versus hps but the only mh I found that worked almost as well as hps was a phosphor coated bulb but even it did not do what a hps does they just have to many more luminums to not beat a mh in the flower room. look on the side of the box the lights come in the hps is just a way stronger output of what a plant wants in the flowering stage of growth ,a mh is better for vegging and the new double lights give you a full spectrum of light bands because they combine both lights together. yes you can grow all stages with a mh and get results worth having ,but they will be less than with a hps light used in the flowering stage .aloha cls

hey CS,
curious what the kelvin rating was on your halide bulb?
all kinds that Ive used but the 4000K seems to be the sweet spot for halide and the bulb I used that gave results
as good as my super hps horti eyes
as far as lumens it was posted earlier in the thread about plants not seeing lumens but p.a.r. so not having the influence that was thought with regards lumens, its in the last 5-6pages fwiw
maybe the OP will post more on it.

btw
it only seem to rage when a few of the same peeps drop
in occasionaly for a 4 page pissfest

 

[Classic Seeds]

hi blissfest enjoy the C99 I got some going I crossed to strawberry diesel again .tsd is just a bad memory of being lied to and thinking delaying my payments would grow it and pay off in the end when jb finally caught me back up .I am back where I started with out being lied to or gamed to let it ride to keep the doors open .hope the people who like the mh over the hps for flowering keep their faith in the mh I know for more than 10 years in the beginning of indoor for me in the 80's mh was all I used and I was happy with them the first time I fired up a hps and started seeing the fans yellow faster than I was used to I freaked out and they do stretch a little more with smaller plants .it took some getting used to nothing wrong with anyway that makes you happy their are no winners except the ones who are happy with their results at the end and get to enjoy the fruits of their labors .it's not worth getting hot and bothered about we all want the same thing better yields in the space we have going for us aloha cls

 

[Classic Seeds]

hi the gnome no worrys I am not here to argue with people either I don't know how plants detect or perceive luminums all I know is get a little better results weight wise with using the hps for my flowering I have grown with just 400 for years and they are the best for me and my limited spaces I grow indoors in I switched to the newer digital ballasts so I could run either bulb with out having to switch anything out to change my bulbs ,just screw a different 400 in the fixture .those conversion mh are a waste of money and the real 400 do put out as much as you can get from a 400 bulb .its really personal preference in how we do what we do ,I used just mh for years and was happy to do so and came across the phosphor coated mh which have more reds and oranges than the normal mh they were by far the best all around bulb I ever came across .I have yet to break down and buy one of these new double light bulbs .that would be the best of both worlds I imagine.in my clone tent I use both in the florsncent fixture and seem to get better results than just using the blues in vegging the clones aloha cls

 

[RB56]

So, uhh, depriving plants of the photosynthetically active blue light they would normally receive is optimal? And what does that have to do with the "fade"?

I agree that the fade is desirable, but mine do that under a dual arc just fine when I get it right in soil.

I have no idea. Can you demonstrate that it isn't? In the totally hypothetical, what I might do in a few years if technology and prices follow their current trajectory, is use some LEDs in the 400-500 nm range and some in the 600-700 range.

I thinks it's counter-productively presumptuous to assume that it makes any difference at all to the plant. Don't forget that the electromagnetic spectrum goes well above and well below the visible range. Why doesn't the plant need any of that?

We want to give the plant what it needs without wasting resources on what it doesn't. It would be worth knowing what those needs are and I don't believe we can extrapolate anything useful from what like or imagine a plant would like.

I'm just suggesting we should try to separate what we know from what we think we know.

 

[acridlab]

hey acridlab
nice to see you contribute on the subject with experience,
substantial exp. I'd say dealing with differing spectrums in bloom to back up what your saying
I'd growing the the plant for 3 yrs lets you kno it up close and personal
i read back somewhere taste wasn't as good with HPS as Mh grown flowers, thats a new one to me?
did you notice any of that with your sour kush?

but Ive noticed other things with MH that were inexpected too.
another thing ive noticed in my last hps/Mh sidexside grow.
same 2 strains, and conditions.Aziz
some in hps and some in MH, other than the hps side stretching excessively to the point of having to crimp the top over compared to the very minimal for Mh
on the mh side, resin matured 8-10 days faster than the hps side.
that was the last time i ran hps for anything,
no way I'll run hps again to explore that one any further
(or for anything else) but it was an interesting observation for sure.

What's up gnome,, when it comes to the flavor/aroma differences;
I'm definitely a firm believer that the uvb/uva, n all the other scientific shit that mh delivers, makes all the difference in dank. In hps's defense, yeah ushios n hortis and all the new school lamps, can and will deliver great budd..everyone knows this. But, I think it may be, cuz they're all enhanced toward the blue side of the force.. imho these hps bulbs are are great but like u said,, stretchy strains are a bastard under them.. and that's all I grow, sativa Dom. Hybrids...they do not reach for the light half as much under 4000k..that means alot to me.. all in all, I think my only use for hps now,is going to be as a supplement for the first few hours and the last few hours of the cycle..didn't mean to ramble but yeah, flavor and aroma jumps at least 20 percent on most strains when I had mh or cmh as supplement,, then I dropped the hps, getting same weight.. just fresher now,, not beaten up if that makes sense.. anyhow, I'm out, watching this Ray Donovan shit, kinda funny.. peace

 

[Catatafish]

acrid, did you use the 4k solis for your test? Was thinking about grabbing one due to vert requirement for Gnome's sylvania.

 

[the gnome]

What's up gnome,, when it comes to the flavor/aroma differences;
I'm definitely a firm believer that the uvb/uva, n all the other scientific shit that mh delivers, makes all the difference in dank. In hps's defense, yeah ushios n hortis and all the new school lamps, can and will deliver great budd..everyone knows this. But, I think it may be, cuz they're all enhanced toward the blue side of the force.. imho these hps bulbs are are great but like u said,, stretchy strains are a bastard under them.. and that's all I grow, sativa Dom. Hybrids...they do not reach for the light half as much under 4000k..that means alot to me.. all in all, I think my only use for hps now,is going to be as a supplement for the first few hours and the last few hours of the cycle..didn't mean to ramble but yeah, flavor and aroma jumps at least 20 percent on most strains when I had mh or cmh as supplement,, then I dropped the hps, getting same weight.. just fresher now,, not beaten up if that makes sense.. anyhow, I'm out, watching this Ray Donovan shit, kinda funny.. peace

thats good to hear your getting stretch under control,
i had issues with that myself without growing sats lol.
you gotta go with what works for ya.
btw gots my 1 WFA in bloom 2 weeks now, hoping she's a beast

hi the gnome no worrys I am not here to argue with people either I don't know how plants detect or perceive luminums all I know is get a little better results weight wise with using the hps for my flowering I have grown with just 400 for years and they are the best for me and my limited spaces I grow indoors in I switched to the newer digital ballasts so I could run either bulb with out having to switch anything out to change my bulbs ,just screw a different 400 in the fixture .those conversion mh are a waste of money and the real 400 do put out as much as you can get from a 400 bulb .its really personal preference in how we do what we do ,I used just mh for years and was happy to do so and came across the phosphor coated mh which have more reds and oranges than the normal mh they were by far the best all around bulb I ever came across .I have yet to break down and buy one of these new double light bulbs .that would be the best of both worlds I imagine.in my clone tent I use both in the florsncent fixture and seem to get better results than just using the blues in vegging the clones aloha cls

it was news to me when i read the plants lumens and par talk,
but i did kno plants see things differently altho i had no idea exactly what,
there's still many things scientist can't explain about plants and lite so assuming whats the best is always subjective

btw its all good,
actually there hasn't been arguing in this thread until recently,
lots of good thing on this subject and plenty to be taken from it unless someone knows whats best.
everything is very subjective and so many variables with indoor grows that there is no best,
only whats best for you
again, go with what works for ya is what Ive been saying since the get go

 

[Drek]

- Remember you're the ones trying to re-invent the wheel and convert all us HPS users, LOL!!!

- Do a Poll here, THC Farmer, ***, CannaCollective, Shunk Mag forums, Firestax, ********, and any other weed site you can think of and you will see HPS is the clear favorite in flower rooms around the world.

- Only noobs like Drek are agreeing with you?

- All the guys that started the whole thing, many from OverGrow, are all wrong and were using the wrong bulb? Guys in Colorado and in Cali that run 50-100 light rooms are all wrong for using Horti Super HPS's, give me a break, LMFAO!!!!!!!

It's because people don't like to think for themselves. They go along with what marketing tells them. You need to quit that man.

(Start thinking outside of the box on your own!). That is, until marketing tells them something else, then that's the bible. Funny thing is, we're not from the marketing department. We can think critically, all by ourselves!

But I'll get to the marketing stuff at the end of this post, from the horses mouth, if that's what you need to hear. I hope it doesn't go in one ear and out the other!

Nobody is saying that HPS doesn't/didn't work (i like that past tense notion the best

), It's just that, there's better bulbs available now that are more akin to what the plants have evolved with and need for optimum health(like those beautiful outdoor plants). People are more or less the same in terms of our evolutionary needs...without sunlight, we lack vitamin D (the example I used before) and it is very difficult to get the correct form of it any other way(ie: fortified milk), dispelling notions of bio forms just using what's given. I love evolution. It spits out lesser forms of clinical nonsense. With the correct clinical approach however, things start to line up beautifully and make a lot more sense. (no offense RB)

http://evolutionarysystemsbiology.org/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12899511
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/4/1080S.full


Ok. Now for Hortilux's(God's) word in the marketing lunch room.

Notice Hortilux's 'New Products' link; their new BLUE MH bulb.

- "The 'powerful spectrum' of HORTILUX BLUE is now available in a 600w version. This Industry-leading, 'breakthrough' bulb that can change the way you grow."
- "Multi-Light Systems can combine our HORTILUX BLUE with HORTILUX super hps lamps 'for a more balanced spectrum. This can produce higher yields and a better 'quality' of plant growth throughout all phases of growth'."

http://www.eyehortilux.com/products/specific/600w-Hortilux-Blue

Does any of this sound familiar Bliss>?

You'll clearly see that their new 'breakthrough' bulb is their best overall bulb. Of course they had to make it 5k, cause if they made it at 4k, it would totally obsolete their other products, and that wouldn't be good for profit now, would it?

 

[blissfest]

I am done arguing about grow bulbs, its all good with me, and I have nothing but best wishes for all of you.

Still holding out till the LED's get better, I believe they are the future for creating perfect spectrum for plants.

I am just set in my ways with the HPS's in flower. I hate the color, but when I pull my plants out after they are finished they look stunning under normal light. Big and Sticky cant ask for anything more