Operation Retirement - $nype Style!

[t99]

If Yummybud can't help, Noggin will save the day! Fuck you Nog!

 

[Snype]

Today I'm just trying to take it easy and maybe plan some things out. Snypette went back to the city for a few days. I was going to do a little construction around here but I think I'll put it off until Monday. I have to dig some posts to get this fence up but it's a big pain due to the way the land goes. I can't do it myself if I want it to be plumb. Some sections are going to be 8ft in the ground and I might hit ledge. I also have this problem with the cold frames about hitting ledge in certain places. I might have to use concrete but have to talk to another guy who knows more about this than me. I have to put in anchors every foot or 2 because of the high winds here. It's like the wind never stops out here.

I haven't seen the outdoor crop yet today so I should get out there to see what's going on. I also have to transplant the 11 MOMs into FFOF but I can't wait to eventually get them into my soil mix if I find out it's good. I want to get away with the idea that I've been using of Hydro Soil and take a more organic approach. It would also take a lot of work away from us because we could link them up with BluMats. I can't believe I haven't tried those yet. Well I can't say that because of the way that I've been using my soil would cause some problems with the salts. I'd like a more organic approach where I just have to add water and nothing else so I'm glad that I'm going to learn a lot from this outdoor experience. Indoor is great and I have a great passion for it but there's a lot of expenses and your yields are limited compared to the sun. I never really thought I'd be running outdoor or LightDep but it's starting to make more sense when I think about it. I know outdoor isn't the way for me to go for the most part because of my environmental factors but I want to get into greenhouses where the plants are protected and I can get some ways to control the environment more with solar fans and greenhouse dehumidification. I'd never really need more than 99 plants that can grow to their full potential in my location which could be as much as 3-5 pounds per plant when I knew what I was doing. I figure this will take up a space of about 40' x 40' if I had 4 of them in total. That's pretty much what I'm thinking for now.

 

[Snype]

I also want to take the time and talk about hydroponics. I've learned so much about this subject in the last 21 years. Many people have this poor view on hydroponics but I believe this is due to the hydro that they have experienced. Almost every hydroponic grower that I talk to in person is using too many nutrients and their EC is too high. I'm not speaking of any one here but the people that I meet in person. I ask lots of questions. It seems like people don't know how to judge how much nutrients to use. This can easily result in poor quality. I know first hand because in the 90's I was running my systems at 4 EC thinking I was right. The buds looked great for the time but lacked in flavor. As time went on there grew more indoor competition which made me reevaluate my techniques. It was very difficult to see in my hard data growing with E&F Rockwool. The data in my RDWC / DWC / Aeroponics and pots of hydroton taught me much more than any other techniques that i've used. There were less variables for me to consider and the growth was much faster for me personally. Of course there were huge learning curves and massive failures to learn what I know. Without those failures, i'd be a joke now. My RDWC systems tell me what is going on when I look at the numbers. You can tell when your system is unbalanced. Once you have the right formula for your specific mono-cropped plants, you know how often to change out the systems and also how high to set the PPM / EC on a given day or week. I probably sound like a broken record to some people because I'm always explaining this to people. Lets look specifically at my RDWC 10 bucket systems that use 2,000 watts of lighting per system. Under 2,000 watts which is the biggest lights that I know about, with CO2 set between 600 and 900 PPM, my ChemDD maxes out at 1100 PPM (.5 NaCl scale) / 2.2 EC. That's when my conditions are perfect. For less light and less CO2 you would be using a lower EC with this strain. This strain is known as a heavy feeder as well so lots of other strains would use less.

The way that I know that my EC levels are right is like this. First I'm using a trusted ratio of the way that I use my General Hydroponic Nutrients. I'm basically using one of Lucas's Formulas by pH. It's not exact but I basically use the same ratio but I changed the amount to use more specific to the system and plants. I don't just put in a certain amount of mL's for every strain. I let the system tell me how much to use through my data.

The data that I'm speaking about is my EC / PPM data and Top Off data. For example, I start my data with a fresh change out. I draw I line in the Rez / Controller of where the nutrient line is. Lets say that the PPM is set to 1500 on that first day. 24 hours later when I come back to check the Rez / Controller, I check the PPM / EC before I top off. So I never topped off with water and took a reading. I don't want it to read more than the day before. If it does then I went too high on my nutrients. I see a lot of growers set their PPM (0.5 NaCL scale) at 1500 PPM and come back in a week. As the solutions went down, their solution is going up and might even hit around 3,000 PPM by the time that they top off. It seems that a lot of people aren't thinking about this. So personally what I'm looking for is for my solution to be the exact same that it was the previous 24 hours, before top off.

Now there are other factors that you must consider as well. One factor would be how much solution your system holds. My systems are only 30 - 40 gallons but if you had bigger systems with smaller plants then you would have to pay attention to the numbers on a longer term like 3-5 days to form a specific formula or technique. From my experience, 1100 PPM (0.5 NaCl) / 2.2 EC is the maximum at least for HPS lighting. Those Dual Ended bulbs like Gavita might actually let your plants take up more nutrients but I haven't tried them yet due to ceiling heights.

As your plants go deeper into flowering, you can pay attention to the numbers as long as your pH is in line. With ChemDD specifically in RDWC / DWC, I have noticed that if I set my pH at 5.7, the plants can barely eat. I keep my RDWC systems at 6.1 and let them drift down to 5.9 as the solution drops. Then I top off with more nutrients solution to bring them back up to their maximum rate and change out the systems completely every 9-10 days. I don't add any bloom boosters and only use the GH FloraMicro and FloraBloom.

I have a tutorial on how to build these RDWC systems for less than $450. This is a sample of a smaller system that I built for a store that could run on 400 or 600 watts and was around $200 for all parts.

Also some of the larger systems for 2,000 watts for $450:

That picture produces over 8 pounds with a 9 day VEG in the systems and 4,000 watts of lighting. There is an additional pre-Veg of 9 days in a VEG room under 220 watts in a floating E&F tray and lid.

 

[Mister_D]

As a former blumat user, I'd advise against them if your goal is truly hands off watering. They worked well for me for the most part, but I had some issues with runaways, cones closing, and clogs. I'd say they are about 90% reliable when setup properly. Bobblehead and myself have been developing a reliable system for watering plants on a vertical scale for the past few years. I finally have a working design that can be used in both vertical and horizontal gardens. Still a work in progress, but there's a tutorial linked in my sig. Might give you some ideas to play with

 

[hush]

I have noticed that if I set my pH at 5.7, the plants can barely eat. I keep my RDWC systems at 6.1 and let them drift down to 5.9 as the solution drops. Then I top off with more nutrients solution to bring them back up to their maximum rate and change out the systems completely every 9-10 days.

This is SO crucial!! Most people don't understand that THIS WILL MAKE OR BREAK YOUR HYDRO GROW!!! Your pH absolutely must swing. You need to allow the pH to fluctuate, and never stay exactly at 5.8 or whatever people think it should stay at all the time.

True, successful hydroponic gardeners know that in order to have healthy plants, the pH must swing through a small range, and then repeat. Snype, you mention 6.1, and I can see that being just fine, but IME I even bring it up to as much as 6.3. Those decimal points can make a world of difference. What is available at 6.0 will not be readily available at 5.9, and so on. PH should swing, on a regular cycle, between 5.8 and, say, 6.2-ish.

Excellent advice, Snype.

 

[Snype]

Just checked on the outdoor. The plants all looked perfect! So I had 2 bad nights where I hit 41F but the lows are getting higher and according to the weather report for the next 10 days, I should be in the clear. Only bad thing is that the rain is supposed to come for up to the next 4 days but the weather reports have been pretty inconsistent lately. I was a little scared for some of my ChemDD's which were a little wilty the last couple of days but they are all perked back up now! From first light to last light I'm getting 15 hours and 59 minutes. I know that means nothing to some of you but I'm just keeping track of many factors.

This is SO crucial!! Most people don't understand that THIS WILL MAKE OR BREAK YOUR HYDRO GROW!!! Your pH absolutely must swing. You need to allow the pH to fluctuate, and never stay exactly at 5.8 or whatever people think it should stay at all the time.

True, successful hydroponic gardeners know that in order to have healthy plants, the pH must swing through a small range, and then repeat. Snype, you mention 6.1, and I can see that being just fine, but IME I even bring it up to as much as 6.3. Those decimal points can make a world of difference. What is available at 6.0 will not be readily available at 5.9, and so on. PH should swing, on a regular cycle, between 5.8 and, say, 6.2-ish.

Excellent advice, Snype.

Yeah I apply for a little margin of error from the meters. I like 6.2 - 5.8. I try to stay away from 5.8 because the margin of error of the meter could actually be 5.7 when it says 5.8. Plus it's easier for the workers when I have to leave and not worry as much.

 

[oldchuck]

I am at about 44.39 N. latitude and would guess you are about five miles north of me.

 

[GreeeeN GRassss]

is there much difference in running your 4 pot RDWC and running 4 DWC buckets ?

 

[Snype]

is there much difference in running your 4 pot RDWC and running 4 DWC buckets ?

There is a difference running RDWC and DWC. The circulation of the system in RDWC actually does make a difference in my past tests but those tests were done in 5 gallon buckets. Personally I did my testing in smaller containers because it's more cost effective getting the Dissolved Oxygen level that you need. That doesn't mean that you can't do great in DWC alone. I did get a 12 oz Shiva Skunk in DWC in a 5 Gallon Home Depot bucket and there were more plants sharing the same 1000 watt light in that test. There are many techniques that one may use in DWC / RDWC and each experience may lead to a different result.

 

[GreeeeN GRassss]

I want to take the step up from growing in coco to DWC or RDWC, i like the idea of no fluid moving from the res to the buckets encase of flooding.

i do like your 4 pot RDWC tho. there selling 5 gallon systems in my local grow shop for 50 euros complete, i have been itching to buy it and give it a try.

 

[Snype]

I want to take the step up from growing in coco to DWC or RDWC, i like the idea of no fluid moving from the res to the buckets encase of flooding.

i do like your 4 pot RDWC tho. there selling 5 gallon systems in my local grow shop for 50 euros complete, i have been itching to buy it and give it a try.

You got to be careful with those systems that stores sell because they are usually made with cheap air pumps that may not supply enough D.O. Here's a little piece that I wrote on an equation for air:

Choosing the correct Air Pump to use
From the testing that I have done I have figured out the minimum required air that you will want to use. In these calculations I’ve taken into account that depending on your environment, your water temperatures will vary. The warmer the water is, the less Dissolved Oxygen that it can hold. I make my calculation in Liters so we will think about it this way here. Each 5 Gallon bucket in the system that you choose to build, will hold a maximum of 4 Gallons of water and in terms of Liters, that would be 15 Liters. Now you want to multiply the amount of buckets that you are going to use by 15 Liters. For example if you are using the 12 plant system, then you multiply 15 Liters x 12 buckets, which would give you 180 Liters. For whatever application that you choose to use, you want to use an air pump rated at half of those liters per minute. So in a 12 plant system you want a pump rated around 90 Liters per minute. You do not have to enter the control bucket into your calculations because the waterfall that is created by the water pump going into the controller supplies all the Dissolved Oxygen that you need. If you are using more than 4 buckets, I would suggest that you spend the extra money and get the Alita brand air pumps. They really are top of the line and it is a minimum expense for what you are going to get out of your yield and product. If you want to go the cheaper route, then any air pumps rated at the calculations above should work.

 

[GreeeeN GRassss]

the air pump they supply in the shop is rated at 192Lph.

ye those Alita pumps look good. id only be going a max of 6 plants. if i got 5oz per plant average id be happy.

i did read through your tutorial thread today, what is bucket the center to center measurement in the 4 bucket RDWC

while running RDWC or DWC an aero cloner would also be a good investment ?

 

[Snype]

the air pump they supply in the shop is rated at 192Lph.

ye those Alita pumps look good. id only be going a max of 6 plants. if i got 5oz per plant average id be happy.

i did read through your tutorial thread today, what is bucket the center to center measurement in the 4 bucket RDWC

while running RDWC or DWC an aero cloner would also be a good investment ?

That air pump isn't going to help you. If you read my calculations, my rates are done in minutes not hours. 192 L/Hr = 3.2 Liters per minute. There is roughly 15 Liters if you put 4 gallons of solution in a 5 Gallon bucket which would require 7.5 L/min or 450 L/Hr. That's why you should build your own systems. Most store RDWC systems are jokes.

You can design the system around the room / closet / light that you are using. Your reflector will be different that mine.

I would say that an aerocloner would not be a good investment. I enjoy taking my cuttings in little rockwool starter cubes even though I have 5 EZ Clone 60's.

 

[GreeeeN GRassss]

yes i did notice you were talking in minutes.

ye ill look into pipes and fittings next time im at the hardware shop. im upgrading my whole set up soon

 

[Snauseberry]

Great advice snype

 

[sweetleaf69]

Wow nice you r going balls out. But watch your ass.
Just a couple of things as with you I have been using GH 3 part for the better part of 20 years. And can do it in my sleep. Now I am also trying my next grow org.
You should check out "Korean natural farming". There are great tips on boosting
Indigenous Micro organisms (IMO collection). From what I am seeing organics is more about A health living soil. Not like good ole GH 3 part things must be broken down to be available for up take.

 

[Snype]

Everyone here wonders why I'm stressed out all the time and can't leave the farm but someone has to always find a way to fuck up the most simplest things. A Mom in here is mislabeled from when the workers did their transplanting. Now I have to figure out which one it is. No one can pay attention to details.

 

[mendo420]

Everyone here wonders why I'm stressed out all the time and can't leave the farm but someone has to always find a way to fuck up the most simplest things. A Mom in here is mislabeled from when the workers did their transplanting. Now I have to figure out which one it is. No one can pay attention to details.

That's why I do everything my self.
If you want it done right do it your self.
It's way easier to fire your self and re hire your self .

 

[GreeeeN GRassss]

synpe in your 4 bucket system is the filter in the wrong position facing the wrong way or does it matter ? it looks to different then your larger systems ? filters i have experience with usually are directional ?

EDIT: by looking at the breakdown i can see direction is not an issue. some filters can be..

 

[GreeeeN GRassss]

do you workers smoke much weed while working ?