Pure ZHO extraction solvent
- Thread starter SkyHighLer
- Start date
This may not be good to be used with Viton seals. They are rated at -15F. Buna's are -35F. PTFE tape is -200C. Are there any seals in ball valves that could be damaged?
Milwaukee rates their SS ball valves down to -20F. Will check paramount.
Milwaukee rates their SS ball valves down to -20F. Will check paramount.
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Plus is that expansion ratio is listed as NA.
Downside is stability. Stability is worse than n-butane. It mentions not storing for a long time, and that reactive peroxides can form with exposure to air, which would occur in closed loop, to some extent. Those reactive peroxides can cause auto ignition.
Read all of section 10 of MSDS. It is pdf, so I can not copy it. Also, when it decomposes, can create carbon monoxide.
Please correct me if I read something wrong!!!!
Downside is stability. Stability is worse than n-butane. It mentions not storing for a long time, and that reactive peroxides can form with exposure to air, which would occur in closed loop, to some extent. Those reactive peroxides can cause auto ignition.
Read all of section 10 of MSDS. It is pdf, so I can not copy it. Also, when it decomposes, can create carbon monoxide.
Please correct me if I read something wrong!!!!
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10. STABILITY and REACTIVITY
STABILITY
: Reactive peroxides may be formed upon prolonged exposure of the contents of the cylinder to air. Distillation or evaporation can concentrate peroxides. The peroxides which are formed can decompose violently, which can result in a fire and cylinder rupture.
DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS
: Decomposes to form carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide.
MATERIALS WITH WHICH SUBSTANCE IS INCOMPATIBLE
: Dimethyl Ether is incompatible with the following materials: strong oxidizers, (e.g., bromine, bromine azide), oxygen, carbon monoxide, acetic acid, organic acid anhydrides and halogens. This gas reacts violently with ozone, fluorine and chromic anhydride.
HAZARDOUS POLYMERIZATION
: Not expected to occur.
CONDITIONS TO AVOID
: Contact with incompatible materials and exposure to heat, sparks and other sources of ignition. If cylinders are exposed to extremely high temperatures, the cylinders may rupture. Do not store Dimethyl Ether for prolonged periods of time.
STABILITY
: Reactive peroxides may be formed upon prolonged exposure of the contents of the cylinder to air. Distillation or evaporation can concentrate peroxides. The peroxides which are formed can decompose violently, which can result in a fire and cylinder rupture.
DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS
: Decomposes to form carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide.
MATERIALS WITH WHICH SUBSTANCE IS INCOMPATIBLE
: Dimethyl Ether is incompatible with the following materials: strong oxidizers, (e.g., bromine, bromine azide), oxygen, carbon monoxide, acetic acid, organic acid anhydrides and halogens. This gas reacts violently with ozone, fluorine and chromic anhydride.
HAZARDOUS POLYMERIZATION
: Not expected to occur.
CONDITIONS TO AVOID
: Contact with incompatible materials and exposure to heat, sparks and other sources of ignition. If cylinders are exposed to extremely high temperatures, the cylinders may rupture. Do not store Dimethyl Ether for prolonged periods of time.
The ball valves from paramount, made by apollo, list RPFTE and MPFTE.
Exactly, unless I am wrong. GW seems to have Chemical Engineer degree, or equivalent. Want him to weigh in.
Please, tell me I am wrong!!!!
To me it seems like only good for blasting, for safety (as safe as blasting can be. I do not recommend blasting).
Which is worse for the environment?
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What I found researching. Will delete, if experts slap me for ignorance -
How are organic peroxides hazardous?
The main hazard related to organic peroxides are their fire and explosion hazards. Organic peroxides may also be toxic or corrosive. Depending on the material, route of exposure (inhalation, eye or skin contact, or swallowing) and dose or amount of exposure, they could harm the body. Corrosive organic peroxides can also attack and destroy metals.
It is the double oxygen of the "peroxy" group that makes organic peroxides both useful and hazardous. The peroxy group is chemically unstable. It can easily decompose, giving off heat at a rate that increases as the temperature rises. Many organic peroxides give off flammable vapours when they decompose. These vapours can easily catch fire.
Most undiluted organic peroxides can catch fire easily and burn very rapidly and intensely. This is because they combine both fuel (carbon) and oxygen in the same compound. Some organic peroxides are dangerously reactive. They can decompose very rapidly or explosively if they are exposed to only slight heat, friction, mechanical shock or contamination with incompatible materials.
Organic peroxides can also be strong oxidizing agents. Combustible materials contaminated with most organic peroxides can catch fire very easily and burn very intensely (i.e., deflagrate). This means that the burn rate is very fast: it can vary from 1 m/sec to hundreds of metres per second. Also the combustion rate increases as the pressure increases and the combustion (or reaction) zone can travel through air or a gaseous medium faster than the speed of sound. However, the speed of combustion in a solid medium does not exceed the speed of sound.
This is one characteristic that distinguishes deflagration from detonation. We mention these two terms because they are used in classifying organic peroxide formulations (see next question). Deflagrations and detonations are similar chemical reactions except that in detonations the burn rate in a solid medium is faster than the speed of sound. This supersonic speed results in a shock wave being produced. They can transmit the shock wave at speeds of about 2,000 to 9,000 m/sec and is not dependent on the surrounding pressure. This is another difference between detonation and deflagration: deflagration rates increase as the pressure becomes greater.
Explosive decomposition is a rapid chemical reaction resulting in almost instantaneous release of energy. This term includes both deflagration and detonation.
Organic peroxides may also have a self accelerating decomposition temperature (SADT). SADT represents the lowest temperature in which that particular organic peroxide formulation in its commercial packaging will undergo self-accelerating decomposition (begin the chemical process that leads to explosion). The SADT value will vary with each organic peroxide formulation and the size and shape of its packaging. Storage requirements will generally be 10 to 20 degrees below the SADT.
Full article at -
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/organic/organic_peroxide.html
How are organic peroxides hazardous?
The main hazard related to organic peroxides are their fire and explosion hazards. Organic peroxides may also be toxic or corrosive. Depending on the material, route of exposure (inhalation, eye or skin contact, or swallowing) and dose or amount of exposure, they could harm the body. Corrosive organic peroxides can also attack and destroy metals.
It is the double oxygen of the "peroxy" group that makes organic peroxides both useful and hazardous. The peroxy group is chemically unstable. It can easily decompose, giving off heat at a rate that increases as the temperature rises. Many organic peroxides give off flammable vapours when they decompose. These vapours can easily catch fire.
Most undiluted organic peroxides can catch fire easily and burn very rapidly and intensely. This is because they combine both fuel (carbon) and oxygen in the same compound. Some organic peroxides are dangerously reactive. They can decompose very rapidly or explosively if they are exposed to only slight heat, friction, mechanical shock or contamination with incompatible materials.
Organic peroxides can also be strong oxidizing agents. Combustible materials contaminated with most organic peroxides can catch fire very easily and burn very intensely (i.e., deflagrate). This means that the burn rate is very fast: it can vary from 1 m/sec to hundreds of metres per second. Also the combustion rate increases as the pressure increases and the combustion (or reaction) zone can travel through air or a gaseous medium faster than the speed of sound. However, the speed of combustion in a solid medium does not exceed the speed of sound.
This is one characteristic that distinguishes deflagration from detonation. We mention these two terms because they are used in classifying organic peroxide formulations (see next question). Deflagrations and detonations are similar chemical reactions except that in detonations the burn rate in a solid medium is faster than the speed of sound. This supersonic speed results in a shock wave being produced. They can transmit the shock wave at speeds of about 2,000 to 9,000 m/sec and is not dependent on the surrounding pressure. This is another difference between detonation and deflagration: deflagration rates increase as the pressure becomes greater.
Explosive decomposition is a rapid chemical reaction resulting in almost instantaneous release of energy. This term includes both deflagration and detonation.
Organic peroxides may also have a self accelerating decomposition temperature (SADT). SADT represents the lowest temperature in which that particular organic peroxide formulation in its commercial packaging will undergo self-accelerating decomposition (begin the chemical process that leads to explosion). The SADT value will vary with each organic peroxide formulation and the size and shape of its packaging. Storage requirements will generally be 10 to 20 degrees below the SADT.
Full article at -
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/organic/organic_peroxide.html
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They can decompose very rapidly or explosively if they are exposed to only slight heat, friction, mechanical shock or contamination with incompatible materials.
When it decomposes, it produces Carbon Monoxide, which is incompatible.
I am not being sarcastic, really hope I am wrong. Computer networks are my thing. Failed chemistry in school. Know how to analyze though.
I think section 10 relates to this, exactly. It being used, where it is exposed to air, over and over, and be stored.
In perfect world, storage tank would be vac'd to -29.92, before being filled, and all hoses, columns, and tanks would be vac'd, and no leaks.
Likely to be exposed to air by mistake, or malfunction. Also, by misunderstanding. Not issue with n-butane.
This is all related to recycling. Blasting, no problem (except blasting is lame).
A lil terp will pay off in results, in no time, using n-butane. If you are not an exceptional DIY'er, have it done professionally. Very complicated to do safely and correctly. If it were college course, would be full year, to understand everything.
Please do not attempt any, if you do not know exactly what you are doing, with all safety implications.
When it decomposes, it produces Carbon Monoxide, which is incompatible.
I am not being sarcastic, really hope I am wrong. Computer networks are my thing. Failed chemistry in school. Know how to analyze though.
I think section 10 relates to this, exactly. It being used, where it is exposed to air, over and over, and be stored.
In perfect world, storage tank would be vac'd to -29.92, before being filled, and all hoses, columns, and tanks would be vac'd, and no leaks.
Likely to be exposed to air by mistake, or malfunction. Also, by misunderstanding. Not issue with n-butane.
This is all related to recycling. Blasting, no problem (except blasting is lame).
A lil terp will pay off in results, in no time, using n-butane. If you are not an exceptional DIY'er, have it done professionally. Very complicated to do safely and correctly. If it were college course, would be full year, to understand everything.
Please do not attempt any, if you do not know exactly what you are doing, with all safety implications.
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Dimethyl ether has an oxygen atom present, so it has a diaelectric constant of 4.34 at 20C, as compared to simple alkane n-Butane which is around 1.77 at 23C.
While it is more polar than n-Butane, not much, and the break point of polar/non polar is generally accepted as a diaelectric constant of 15 or greater.
I will let you know after personal experimentation, but I would expect it to still extract plant waxes, though less than n-Butane.
GW is a Manufacturing Engineer, which is a jack of all trades and master of none, so not whom we should be talking to on the nuances.
Dimethyl ether would ostensibly be more likely to form peroxides than Diethyl ether, so it is a valid enough question to beg an answer before we progress to recycle.
Our biotech is on vacation, but I will see how far his cell service is good for after a decent hour to arise in Paradise, and I just asked my forensic labs technician to research it, given the lab director is on vacation and not available enlightenment.
More when I hear back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethyl_ether_peroxide
Diethyl ether peroxide
Diethyl ether hydroperoxide
Diethyl ether hydroperoxide (CH3-CH2-O-CH(OOH)-CH3) is a colorless liquid of low viscosity with a pleasant smell. Upon heating it weakly deflagrates, resulting in a fog of acetic acid and water. Diethyl ether hydroperoxide decomposes in the presence of sodium hydroxideand Fe2+-containing salts.
Diethyl ether peroxide
Diethyl ether peroxide, also known as ethylidene peroxide, (-CH(CH3)OO-)n is a polymerization product of diethyl ether hydroperoxide. It is a colorless oily liquid that is an extremely brisantand friction sensitive explosive material. Amounts of less than 5milligrams can damage chemical apparatuses.[who?] The dangerous properties of ether peroxides are the reason that diethyl ether and other peroxide forming ethers like tetrahydrofuran (THF) or ethylene glycol dimethyl ether (1,2-dimethoxyethane) are avoided in industrial processes.
Unlike other alkyl ethers, DME resists autoxidation. DME is also relatively non-toxic, although it is highly flammable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_ether
Why not, it's not dangerous to the environment, and is produced from an unending source, sewage. ;-)
"Bio DME, or biobased dimethyl ether, is an energy containing molecule that is condensation of two biomethanol molecules. It consists of hydrogen and carbon monoxide molecules derived from methanol processing. In order to obtain the DME, pure methanol is processed by catalytic dehydration, which combines two methanol molecules by removing a water molecule. The methanol is generally obtained from biomass, coal, or natural gas. In certain cases, methanol can be formed from pyrolysis gases generated from garbage or waste."
http://www.biodme.com
They're working on getting Graywolf a master case for closed loop testing asap.
CarefulGrower
Active member
6 can cost 2x as much as 12 cans of butane, and (from what I've read) has slightly lower yields on the same amount of material/solvent used.
How is this better than butane ?? It is flammable, expensive, low yielding, and no overall safer than butane. I've heard of a much higher pressure, potentially pulling more unwanted materials/waxes through.
How is this better than butane ?? It is flammable, expensive, low yielding, and no overall safer than butane. I've heard of a much higher pressure, potentially pulling more unwanted materials/waxes through.
