Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[sammyz2646]

I already took the plunge and treated with orthene three weeks ago and followed up with spec/tri spot spray for the adult flyers following the dunk for a few days. It decimated the little bastards.

I haven't seen any movement at all and I have been looking close. with a loupe and scope.

My plants also took a hit pretty hard though. Nothing I wasn't expecting.

Thanks again

Sorry to hear about the orthene damage

Glad they got beat back. Personally, I would NEVER spray the spec/tri into the air or any sprayer for that matter . You don't want that crap going airborne!!! The residue is nasty. EDIT- I'm pretty sure it hangs around on surfaces you may touch later. SNS is a perfect spray for all areas. in the root zone , around it, and as an area spray too ( even though its not the cheapest for this app). I keep this mixture in all my sprayers~ 1.5 fl oz per QUART of SNS. Or the PCO Cedarcide for the area sprays, using the recommended mixture

I tried the PCO root soak/dunk , PH'd for 20 min.

It killed my plants.. I mean dead!!!!! In around 5 days . I must have done it incorrectly. I have tons and tons of respect for everyone and their personal opinions, especially the helpful folks like Granger, Ozzie and many others here. These guys really know their stuff. But for me, here, the neem oil and the PCO Choice cedarcide did not achieve my goals in regards to RA's and plant health.
Operator error? Maybe. Maybe the same way my strategy is not working for others.

But, the cedarcide is a fantastic area spray , IMO

PEACE

 

[Shoots]

I wear all the protective gear. respirator, sleeved gloves with long sleeved shirt pants and shoes whenever I use anything chem. I even tend to use it when I use natural products. Its just habit. I don't live in the same structure as my grow either. I get in and out and done.

 

[SpiderMite]

Thanks for the advice and welcome Sammy. Glad to hear you have been RA free for 3 months, can't wait till I can say the same...

I do have Tanglefoot on the base of the stalks and some Vaseline around the pot rims to slow them down, but will look into the moats for sure.
Forgot to mention, I grow in homemade organic supersoil.

Some good news, it seems the RAs have really slowed down. Not seeing too many more on the traps and have only seen 2 winged aphids on the traps. The aphids that are there are larger crawlers so the 203 seems to have been effective on all the small ones and the winged RAs.

 

[sammyz2646]

Hopefully the soil treatments are going to work in the same fashion, I really am honestly not too sure as my soil experience in this application is very limited. I run hydro, using R/W.
I did however have success with this treatment in soiless media w/ coco

 

[SpiderMite]

Right on, thanks for clarifying that bro.

Peace,

 

[vinman1968]

This is an awesome thread and I am a seasoned grower...growing since 1985.I run my moms in soil and take clones then veg and flower in DWC.This year has really hit me hard for some reason that I have yet to figure out and I to started having the mag deficiency looking ladies and started seeing fliers and also had fungus gnat larvae in the root zone.Upon further inspection and going really deep I found root aphids as well.I have never had such a bad last 2 grows and it has really hurt me bad.I am very thankful to the original starter of this thread and all the input from others as the thread progressed.So Bayer Complete Insect Killer it is for me.This is gonna be hard for me as I cannot afford to keep taking the hits I have the last 2 rounds.I am always anal about clean up after each round and am at a loss.

I am going to go with 10ml a gallon in each bucket and run it for a hour and hope for the best.I even have some really big insects that I have not seen pictures of so I will post a couple...they appear to me to be an aphid but are really big and they also have what I call the dual tailpipes.

 

[sahdgrower]

Boy I sure wish people would not use Bayer. I understand it is the most effective against RA but shit people stop contaminating the smoke! Just what do you think happens to that poison? Just dissapears? Lets just spray roundup across the whole world and we can solve the entire planets pest problems.

 

[medicalmj]

also had fungus gnat larvae in the root zone.Upon further inspection and going really deep I found root aphids as well

...they appear to me to be an aphid but are really big and they also have what I call the dual tailpipes.

I couldn't get rid of em in my dwc. I blame the rockwool cubes I started in. The cubes stay soaked and provide ideal environment. And I put the cubes into baskets of hydroton that made it even worse. There would be hundreds of fliers getting in there. The top couple inches of hydroton would be dry while the cube was wet letting em attack from all sides.

With bad FGs and their larvae comes near microscopic soil mites (not to be confused with terrestrial mites that are pests). Don't worry they aren't the problem, but they (soil mites) usually portend trouble. I had em come back pretty good toward last round so I let it ride. I am using gnatnix as a top dressing (smartpots w coco) and azamax drench. Gonna add nematodes next week. My yellow card is pretty empty so I think the top dressing works well.

 

[Hmong]

It's some kind of never ending

 

[Hmong]

it's a never ending nightmare, now i have fungus gnats too haha
up to the poison cabinet!

 

[sammyz2646]

Boy I sure wish people would not use Bayer. I understand it is the most effective against RA but shit people stop contaminating the smoke! Just what do you think happens to that poison? Just dissapears? Lets just spray roundup across the whole world and we can solve the entire planets pest problems.

WHAT HE SAID (about the BAYER)
They build resistance to IMID
The aphids I ended up with were super bugs passed on from other irresponsible growers who mis treat at improper times and amounts

The IMID lingers in our plants far longer than many other successful chemical treatment options, (I know Retro is getting ready to chew me a new one)

 

[ozzieAI]

it's a never ending nightmare, now i have fungus gnats too haha
up to the poison cabinet!

didn't the neem oil work for you?

 

[SpiderMite]

Alternating neem drenches and BT (mosquito dunks or gnatrol) drenches has always killed the fungus gnats pretty quick.

I use 3-5 ml/gallon of neem

For BT I fill a 5 gallon bucket with water and drop one mosquito dunk in, let sit for 24 hours before use and give it a stir before use. Adding an airstone is optional.

Fighting them in veg right now...

 

[Hmong]

didn't the neem oil work for you?

like we discussed. It was just a treatment. In veg it worked wonders but i left some flowering plants (7wks in) untreated and i guess the FGs come from them.

Overall I have more problems with pH issues atm.
After transplanting a 3,5L coco root ball into a soilles mix. I should have thought on that in all my motivation before applying the non ph'd ACT a few days ago. since yesterday the show sulfur defficiency, yellowing from above downwards, not cool at all but not the end of the world.

So this is why I guess I won't do another treatment soon, as long as they are not fixed. But I will continue it further no question.

those FGs do shit compared to RAs so I can just laugh on them.
I placed sticky traps on my DE amnended pots to see if the topdressing helps in any way with them. anyway they will fall to my next RA treatment so no worries.

PS: the DE + sand + gravel mix worked surprisingly well in the way i thought it to as a barrier^^.
After watering the topdressing becomes as hard as concrete. NO way for them to get through this but i had to remove 80% of it since the slow penetration makes watering in smartpots impossible. whats left now is just DE + gravel and only traces of sand.
DE alone is not for me. It clumps and swims up, but mixed with gravel into the topsoil, this will provide a better penetration and some surface for the DE to attach. now it works the way I had in mind, though the barrier effekt isn't the same anymore of course.

 

[sammyz2646]

That "concrete" you speak of I know well. At first it seems like a great barrier to prevent pest travel, BUT, even with geo-pots and smart pots, you will eventually suffocate your root mass to the point that the leaves will droop and the plant will die due to low oxygen in the root area.

My "concrete" was formed by neem meal, a thick layer, that the bugs hate, BUT, once again after numerous waterings , a mucky , stinky, sludge formed and of course, the water didn't drain and even with supposed air going through the airpot, total suffocation occurred.

Sounds like your experiencing a similar issue Hmong

 

[IGROWMYOWN]

Been using de in the semi top layer in ffof it clumps in geopots but it becomes and insecticide when I hand mist ,if it becomes like concrete I'm guessing you applied to much too thick ... My flyers no longer Exist doesn't take much.

 

[ozzieAI]

Hmong: plants will yellow naturally when late in flower...and i have treated plants that late in flower both foliar and drench without any issues....

i went gravel and fine white sand barrier since neem cake is low and i don't want to drench...

i use drippers and that has made a hole in the sand for the water to get through nice quickly and the gravel completes the barrier...hopefully...

 

[Hmong]

Hmong: plants will yellow naturally when late in flower...and i have treated plants that late in flower both foliar and drench without any issues....

actually I was talking about my veg.

yeah i am sure drippers work fine, i also dug a hole first and then rinse my cup into it but I got backpain after handwatering over 20 Plants this way, so I just removed most of the layer a few days after. It was just thought to prevent remaining flyers from laying another set of new eggs into the moist soil after the neem treatment.

@ sammy:

BUT, even with geo-pots and smart pots, you will eventually suffocate your root mass to the point that the leaves will droop and the plant will die due to low oxygen in the root area.

Sounds like your experiencing a similar issue Hmong

yeah i witnessed that too in my plastic pots so far. it looks like root bind, when leaves start yellowing very quickly and fall off node by node. I haven't removed their layer yet so it seems obvious.

 

[BlazinPurps]

Just wanted to update, I transplanted a few plants like 5 days ago and could not find a single RA no flyers nothing and believe me I looked. I also switched to organics and fed my first compost tea last I have never had such great growth even when I was RA free on synthetics. I cannot say I am RA free I am sure they are still lurking but I am blown away by how well DE amended soil is working (clones started in DE amended soil). I would not believe it if I was not seeing it everyday but it has been about a month since I have seen one. I just started 12/12 which is when they seem to get I the worst for me but so far so good.

 

[sammyz2646]

If you guys don't want to take the best route (Kontos) you can also use Conserve SC which is a 11% Spinosad.. teaspoon of that shit per gallon drench and spray around the base of the stem...

SNS is such a rip off .... if its Botanical Oils you seek... which are awesome also... this is what you want for $30 and will kill anything and not hurt your plants at all even when they are in flower

http://www.biconet.com/botanicals/infosheets/Essentria_IC3_label.pdf

I ordered the Essentria IC3 "Cliff Paul" so eagerly suggested and so, this product is NOT recommended as a root drench via the company that sells it!
Have you ACTUALLY used this product yourself Storm, or did you just "hear" about it here in discussion????

ROOT DRENCH ROOT DRENCH ROOTH DRENCH, DUH (Because this is where they live, and intern, survive many treatments ) Come on, man

I am NOT needing a sprayable area spray , or some 'OTHER USE' for this product. So if you had used this Ic3 product or just "HEARD" about it, ENLIGHTEN ME as to the applicable measurements, as there is NOTHING out there about root drenching that I have seen, with regards to Essentria Ic3.

Please don't throw crap put there if you don't either explain it or understand it, SS. If you know something someone else doesn't, don't HINT to them, or give them SOME info. If you know what your talking about, great, EXPLAIN FULLY, if not , DON'T POINT AT SOMETHING UNTIL YOU KNOW what the heck your even REALLY talking about. We need to try and make our helpful direction ACCURATE< SPECIFIC< and COMPLETE for people who are either not familiar with a new product, or maybe just not that capable without a little help

Ya, your help is appreciated but not to be led down the WRONG path as so many others here seem to end up on, which is why I took the time to explain my RA routine for battle, a successful one at that!

SNS works fine!!!! Never mind the price! Now , Im sure I can find a use for this crap, but, I NEEDED A ROOT DRECH SOLUTION

This is only recommended for drenching ant mounds, Now THATS what I call WASTING money.

I'm hoping that maybe it is a viable drench option somehow, but either way, when the company says NO, HMMMMM