High Brix soil grow

[mohammed romney]

before i originate a brix driven thread of my own i will complete a successful HB grow. in the mean time im not secretive at all about products, techniques and theories etc.

any questions where maybe i can be helpful let me know

 

[nodestar]

I was wondering about Silica in High Brix growing. I'm guessing it's considered more of a trace mineral. Does having high Silica throw off other mineral balances? Or can I add a cup of Food Grade DE to 2cu ft of soil mix?

 

[mohammed romney]

hey node, i know doc bud does not suggest DE. i overused it recently and had troubles. in my latest grow i left it out. plants look great. i think if you're using the 6-5-3 then silca is likely taken care of.

if you comb thru threads at 420 youll see mention of DE.

I DOUBT 1cup in 2 cu ft will make any diff.

 

[Cep]

I was wondering about Silica in High Brix growing. I'm guessing it's considered more of a trace mineral. Does having high Silica throw off other mineral balances? Or can I add a cup of Food Grade DE to 2cu ft of soil mix?

Potassium silicate is the most available form for agricultural uses and, containing Potassium, it can potentially be a problem if your soil has sufficient or high existing K levels. You will find it in products like ProteKt that are liquid, but AgSil is a soluble solid and a better value. If there is enough K in your soil, use it as a foliar. I've noticed the stems become more rigid after foliar applications.

 

[EclipseFour20]

For "organic purists" (which I am not one)--Potassium Silicate can only be used as an "insecticide" or for "disease control"...not allowed as a plant or soil amendment--according to 7 CFR 205.601 - Synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production.

BTW, Si found in Potassium Silicate (Silica Blast, Pro-tekt, etc) is not in the form of Plant Available Silica (PAS)...rather it can take weeks for the conversion to PAS (process called silicification). There are only two types of PAS: amorphous silica (think food grade DE...or Fossil Shell Flour) and monosilicic acid (very few Potassium Silicate products include this "expensive" ingredient).

For my primary sources of silica, I include both Fossil Shell Flour as well as a Potassium Silicate product that is also derived from monosilicic acid.

Sorry if I rained on any one's parade, but this thread is under the "organics" section....

Cheers!

 

[rasputin]

Potassium silicate is allowed in organic farming as a fertilizer and soil conditioner by the IFOAM and CODEX.

It is only the USDA's NOP that restricts its use to foliar applications and even they acknowledge its benefit as a soil application, they are just concerned that manufacturers will allow industrial by-product known as slag to get into the final product, as is common in potassium silicate products used in conventional agriculture, which is harmful to soil micro-life. The NOP apparently doesn't trust that manufacturers will produce a slag-free potassium silicate product for organic farming.

From the NOP's petition review of potassium silicate

While the petitioner intends to use naturally occurring sand as a primary raw ingredient, silica-laden compounds used as silicon fertilizers for conventional agriculture are commonly sourced from industrial byproducts.

These byproducts, referred to ubiquitously as slag, are impurities precipitated from the refining of mined materials and smelting of metal ores. Depending on the source, slags may also contain heavy metals a associated with their origin or processing (e.g., uranium in phosphate ore, nickel, and zinc).

Nonetheless, the use of silica slag fertilizers in agriculture is widespread, particularly in sugarcane fields and paddy rice systems. In conventional agriculture, calcium silicate slag (CaAl2Si2O8 or CaSiO3) is commonly used as a silica fertilizer (Tisdale etal 1999). Silicate slag applied at a rate of 1.5-3.0 t/ha is common practice in degraded paddy fields in Japan (Kono 1969, Takahashi and Miyake 1977).

Additionally, slag has been used in foreign organic operations in the past. One organic agriculture research farm in Taiwan that used silica slag mixed with manure and soybean meal reported a 25% yield increase of high-quality sponge gourd (Hsieh and Hsieh 1989).

If potassium silicate is allowed for organic crop production without specific annotation, it is possible that some silicate fertilizers will be sourced from silica slag.

potassium silicate should be allowed as a micronutrient under § 205.601 (j) (6) with the annotation that it not be derived from industrial by-products

What I think this might really suggest is that users of ProTekt or Silica Blast should come jump on the AgSil16H bandwagon. Still want to do some more research on finding a better Si source, though.

I think this issue is a good reminder of how not all organic certifications are equal and underscores the importance of these certifying agencies to get it right and develop more uniform standards. As it is, you can almost find any answer you want, yay or nay, on certain items depending on where you look. The inconsistencies from one agency to the next is the real problem.

Has anyone tried ortho-silicic acid? I have come across a product recently that claims to have exceptionally high bio-availability. It is used primarily with horses, it's called OrthoPur Si. I'm curious about it.

 

[milkyjoe]

I use diatomaceous earth. The secret is to use one with amorphous silica...you do not want calcined (that will never be available) or crystalline silica. Then a little trick is to get some chitin (crustacean shell) in there...I do not understand the mechanism just yet but it is said to help get silica into your plant cells.

I use a product called Red Lake Earth that you can get at any Tractor Supply (animal feed section). In fact i eat about a teaspoon a day myself.

And just for fun here is a little two light room about 1/2 way into flower. Brix is right around 12 and the line is really fuzzy. If I can maintain energy in the plants yield should be exceptional by the time it is over.

 

[milkyjoe]

Here is one more interesting thing I have run into.



This went 11 weeks and the hairs did not all go red/orange. My belief is that the plant built enough anti oxidants that the hairs did not oxidize. Nor did the trichomes turn amber, basically all cloudy.

About a week before we smoke it so we will find out.

At 10 weeks the plant was still green. Only in the last week did the fans start to turn yellow and die...and then it went quick. We normally take this strain 10 weeks.

 

[milkyjoe]

And screw it, while I am at it...here is a 3rd room also about 1/2 way in. The healthier I get the plants the more trichs they seem to form. Basically just an Albrecht ratio soil with lots of foliars focused primarily on trace/ultra trace stuff.

 

[warthog]

Nice joe!

 

[rasputin]

Then a little trick is to get some chitin (crustacean shell) in there...I do not understand the mechanism just yet but it is said to help get silica into your plant cells.

Interesting, I use crab meal but didn't know about the chitin-silica connection. I'll have to check that out, thanks.

Nice plants!

 

[Cep]

Milky, where did you read that? I'm interested as well. Have been using a bit of crustacean meal in outdoor mixes to cater to chitin eating microbes in the soil. I don't think I've ever had a nematode problem but its a precaution.

Chitin serves as a lattice for Ca in invertebrates. Maybe it's doing the same thing with Si?

 

[milkyjoe]

I was told it by our friend. One more of those no citation things...it is in product X.

Anyways...I like to supply at least part of my Ca with either crab or crustacean meal. Chitin is gonna be a good thing one way or the other.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

I just got my package from our friend, I'm going to start using it once I get my starts together for my scene. I just potted up all the moms, making clones in a few weeks...looking forward to it.

I need to place an order for a lot more though...lol.

 

[Cep]

Nice! Milky, were you the guy that had the product "R" bottle spray all over the place? He called me the day before I was going to open it with the warning.

I'll be starting my indoor trial pretty soon. I don't think they were aware of the product volume required for the outdoor projects haha.

 

[milkyjoe]

Like a freaking volcano it went off I got an unvented bottle, I think they have since corrected it. But just cause I ain't very smart I shook my gallon bottle of rejuvenate...guess what happened...DOH

We are playing with some Tainio/Kempf stuff. Trying to build more complex compounds out of sugar.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

@cep I tried to explain to our friend. It's clear they didn't get the memo.

I was like yeah, we use 10-12k gallon per irrigation .... He was like..ok..

When I opened the box and saw a gallon of each I was surprised.

They do give instructions for irrigating per 1000sq ft, I'm going to start with that in the outdoor trial.

I think I'm going to just use the products on all moms

 

[Cep]

@Rasputin
I just checked out the orthopurSi site. I'm going to try and contact them to find out how much more bioavailable it is compared to our alternatives. +Rep

@Milky
With the rejuvenate they want it applied with bioinoculants almost like it doesn't have any by itself, but I think they added a Tainio product before shipping.

@Backyard
I was describing the plant size to the guy and the initial answer I got was simply "Oh".

What they were going to supply in terms of foliar samples would've done one or two treatments on one row maybe.

I'm also trying to get my moms in perfect shape before taking cuts. Their products should help.

 

[milkyjoe]

I am using the Kempf stuff at the tomato plant rate. They get 25 lbs off single plants so I am thinking that is enough. It is working out great indoors.

On the biological advantage stuff I am adding that per their instructions for foliar and drench on page 2. I did not see the use in that page 1 stuff.

A little bit really does go a long way

 

[milkyjoe]

Here is the thing...not only does it improve quality it adds yield like you won't believe. This is a 3 gallon pot we stuck in the room. It was impossible to get a room pic cause the whole thing was like this. I don't know what the weight is yet, and it probably would not do any good to say anyways, no one is going to believe it.

Used just the kempf foliar program for 5 weeks I think



Not the densest bud ever, but not terrible either. I gotta jam another light or two in there.