Terpenation at Terpene Station

[Gray Wolf]

I think occasionally they will get a bit hazy, but the distance from the butane laden oil is so great, you never get splatter on the bottom of the lid.

3 way port? as in 3 ports? The reason I went with two ports is that it got too hard sourcing illuminated viewing ports at a reasonable price. I figure an led flashlight works just as good for cheap.

I'd like to just use oil viewing ports that are male npt, but finding ones that are reasonably priced and meet our temp requirements has been challenging.

Only twice as fast with the Haskel? Even with bottom heat? That is disappointing. Sadly the appion is faster than the diablo, but with bottom heat the time differential isn't that much.

Yeah, we have experienced the same issues with 5lb tubes having too much butane in it, hence the separate recovery required.

Good to hear that the view ports don't coat over in use.

The three way port is to accommodate instrumentation for automation, while viewing at the same time. If I wanted to just view it, two would suffice.

An LED flashlight will clearly work for eyballing, instead of a calibrated light source with an optic bundle, but if you are trying to fine tune instrumentation, I question how suitable it would be.

We've also added a thermocouple to keep track of the internal pot temperature, looking for a measure of what is happening at subzero extraction temperatures, when the vacuum gauge becomes practically worthless.

We've yet to use bottom heat, other than to de-ice, because the current local market is primarily for wax and that is what the beta tester wanted from their product.

I'll report back after the first cancer oil run at full temperature, but as we both know, heat more than quadruples the recovery speed, until you hit negative pressures. It is recovering cold that is the measure of how well it works in our process.

We've found that even with 2.5 lb tubes, it requires much column heat or we get long recovery times.

 

[rb extractors]

well yes, adding an optical bundle is a nice option, but way too much given what needs to be done, which is to allow you to see what is going on in the spool.

yeah, the gauge at cold extractions is useless, hence the ports

It really depends on what we are making as to whether or not we add bottom heat or not. On really good material, we still run the whole system cold. Of course that is where the Haskel would shine! ahhhh, to have 3 phase power at my house

 

[HighStateToke]

Here is a section from the MK IV page on GW' site, followed by Grey Wolf's answer. I presume there was some miscommunication as I fail to see how welding the injection attachments to a concentric reducer would function any differently than having a separate 6" spool to weld to, assuming the concentric reducer is there to stay.
Thanks

"SPR, is the 2inch x 6″ spool necessary for the 2 lines coming out? or can i weld these 2 lines into the reducer, thus not needing the 2″ x 6″?

Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on January 13, 2014 at 10:29 AM

Not sure I understand what you mean, but if you mean adding them to the concentric reducer, then no it won’t work the same."

 

[HighStateToke]

Double post, excuse me.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Here is a section from the MK IV page on GW' site, followed by Grey Wolf's answer. I presume there was some miscommunication as I fail to see how welding the injection attachments to a concentric reducer would function any differently than having a separate 6" spool to weld to, assuming the concentric reducer is there to stay.
Thanks

"SPR, is the 2inch x 6″ spool necessary for the 2 lines coming out? or can i weld these 2 lines into the reducer, thus not needing the 2″ x 6″?

Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on January 13, 2014 at 10:29 AM

Not sure I understand what you mean, but if you mean adding them to the concentric reducer, then no it won’t work the same."

What that means, is that the Mk IV is the largest of the portable extractors, and is designed to accommodate from a 2" to a 4" column.

If I had used a concentric reducer, instead of the 2" spool, only a 4" column would fit, and a separate injection tee would be required for the 2", and 3", requiring hose changes in a pressurized butane line, or a drain and recovery operation before switching sizes.

 

[Gray Wolf]

well yes, adding an optical bundle is a nice option, but way too much given what needs to be done, which is to allow you to see what is going on in the spool.

yeah, the gauge at cold extractions is useless, hence the ports

It really depends on what we are making as to whether or not we add bottom heat or not. On really good material, we still run the whole system cold. Of course that is where the Haskel would shine! ahhhh, to have 3 phase power at my house

Not sure I follow you on the optic bundle thing. Do you have other explosion proof options to share, which will allow me to use calibrated instrumentation?

Obviously you could mount both the calibrated light source and and the sensor to the sight glass, but the calibrated light source isn't petite. The light detector also requires electrical wires anyway, so why not a trim explosion proof optic fiber bundle instead.

 

[hawper]

Been running an MKIII and working good, but lots of column changes. Just got a 2"x36" column, and changed the collection pot to 6"x12" to hopefully process more material. Also added a sight glass.

However, I seem to be having trouble running it the standard method. When I flood it takes a long time to get to the sight glass (~60 seconds), but I can't seem to get the butane to run clear, even with multiple washes. I have a feeling I don't have enough butane in my tank so that it's not flooding all the way through.

Any suggestions/info on modifying the MKIII for use with bigger columns?

 

[rb extractors]

60 seconds is a long time. more than likely you don't have enough butane in your tank. keep 10 to 15lbs in it if you can.

you can't run any bigger columns without causing problems.

rarely would you have clear butane. you have to balance get enough oil, not exposing the material to butane too long, and reclaim times. I stopped running cycles a long time ago, but I run a larger version of what you use.

 

[HighStateToke]

Rb, you are over flooding once, correct? If so, how is that holding up for you? I would assume that requires a much larger volume of butane.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Been running an MKIII and working good, but lots of column changes. Just got a 2"x36" column, and changed the collection pot to 6"x12" to hopefully process more material. Also added a sight glass.

However, I seem to be having trouble running it the standard method. When I flood it takes a long time to get to the sight glass (~60 seconds), but I can't seem to get the butane to run clear, even with multiple washes. I have a feeling I don't have enough butane in my tank so that it's not flooding all the way through.

Any suggestions/info on modifying the MKIII for use with bigger columns?

A little tooooo much column for efficient recovery using a 6" diameter spool, you would be better off going to a larger surface area collection tank, rather than a deeper one.

60 seconds is a long flood for a 2" X 36" column. How cold are you running your butane? How much butane are you running in your tank?

If you still have a 1/4" vent line, consider going to 3/8".

Which pump are you running and what size is your recovery hose.

I don't look for clear butane, I look for absence of amber color.

 

[HighStateToke]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]20 vs 150 mesh viton gaskets? I know 20 are what most use but any implications with using 150's? I plan to use qualitative filters as well. Would be nice to find mesh gaskets fine enough to be able to eliminate the filter papers as well...someone please chime in if you are aware of some

Also, I've noticed some using shorter dip tubes(something that interests me as I would love to avoid having to remove product from them) How much shorter can I go without sacrificing my pump? With a 10"x12" collection tank.

Having trouble finding a 1.5" tri clamp X 3/8 npt adapter..brewer's has everything but 3/8. May have to use a 1/2" return tube.

GW-what is the purpose for the compression fitting above the 1.5"x6" column on the MK IV?
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[Gray Wolf]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]20 vs 150 mesh viton gaskets? I know 20 are what most use but any implications with using 150's? I plan to use qualitative filters as well. Would be nice to find mesh gaskets fine enough to be able to eliminate the filter papers as well...someone please chime in if you are aware of some View Image

Also, I've noticed some using shorter dip tubes(something that interests me as I would love to avoid having to remove product from them) How much shorter can I go without sacrificing my pump? With a 10"x12" collection tank.

Having trouble finding a 1.5" tri clamp X 3/8 npt adapter..brewer's has everything but 3/8. May have to use a 1/2" return tube.

GW-what is the purpose for the compression fitting above the 1.5"x6" column on the MK IV?
[/FONT]

The lighter weight screens sometimes plug and tear if there is too great a pressure difference across them, but otherwise work fine.

I've equalized ostensibly recovered 4" columns sitting over night before removing them, by opening the dump valve between them and the vacuum in the lower tank, and blown the contents of the column through the screen, but no problems so far on smaller ones.

A single face filter can never replace a depth filter in surface area. As soon as a simple face filter starts to filter out material, it starts to plug and soon will no longer pass fluid at existing pressures.

If you desire greater filtration, place Whatman lab filters on top of the screen, but don't take away the wadded up filters that do most of the work and protect them.

The shorter it is, the less efficient, but I try keep the liquid level at least six inches below the pump intake after a full dump, and the dip tubes close to the bottom, so that they are submerged during most of the vent and dump cycles, thus avoiding splatter.

The issue with how close they are to the bottom raises its ugly head, when running multiple columns into the same pot, or running super enriched material that fills the pot with cotton candy.

They are typically about 2.5" off the bottom, so there is some margin to raise them, but the closer you get to 6", the more liquid you will suck into the recovery system.

Yeah, I've used the 1/2" end cap to FNPT adaptor with a 1/2 X 3/8 reducer up to this point, or just made them in 3/8" myself. WolfWurx ordered their 3/8" adapters custom made in China, which I predict you will see more of from OEM's.

A half inch return tube will also work if you go that route, but the stiffer tube will be harder to work with in such a short length.

The compression fitting is for a 1/4" X 29" tubular Type J or K thermocouple, to keep track of internal tank temperature.

It can be replaced by or moved up another 6" for installation of the pressure relieve valve that WolfWurx installs on every turnkey unit, though not in the basic parts kit.

You can obtain the thermocouples with weather head custom made from Omega.

The valve assembly can be had at $439 from Swagelok under their Skunk Pharm Research part number of SKUPHA-001, or buying the individual pieces, which are a SS-R4m8F8-BU-SETA R-Series Proportional relief valve, protected from vacuum by a SS-CHF8-1/3 CH Series, Poppet check valve.

Any of ya'll manufacturers, whom plan to sell in a regulated market, should expect to meet ASME codes for pressure vessels sooner or later.

Since the lid thickness to meet 3X the highest pressure that may be reached with multiple royal screw ups, could exceed the sealing capacity of at least the larger tank lids, a pressure relief valve is the easiest solution.

The one listed has provisions to vent any discharge to another collection tank under vacuum for subsequent recovery, or to a safer location using a long hose.

 

[Young Bull]

So I finally got a chance to run my terp for the first time yesterday. I had some 6 month old trim from some shwaggy outdoor mids. There was still a bunch of fan leaves in it and stuff... not good material, in fact stuff I bet most people wouldn't run but someone just gave it to me and its been in my freezer ever since so I figured if I was gonna mess something up on my first run I would rather do it with my more worthless stuff.

I'm running a MKIIIA with a 36" column, a sight glass, the new shower mod, a 12" x 6" base, and the mega flow hose. I believe everything else was according to the original design. I've got about 8 lbs of butane in my tank that's been chilling in a deep freezer.





I had 2.5 lbs of material and managed to pull about 2.5% out of it. I wasn't really sure what to expect. Does that seem about accurate? On every 1/2 lb tube I ran 2 overflows, 2 dumps, and one shower.

I burped my tank before some runs and I didn't before others, and I'm not sure if that was the cause, but I couldn't really seem to find a pattern, some column fills took only 30 seconds and others took up to 2 minutes for the first bottom up flood. All of the tubes were packed to the same density.

It also seems like dumping didn't work the way I expected sometimes after I opened the dump valve I would see the pressure jump from -10 up to 10 but I wouldn't see the butane moving down in my sight glass for possibly a few minutes, it was almost like it wasn't moving at first. And at the rate it moved I calculated it took about 8 - 15 minutes per 36" tube to dump all the way down, does that seem normal?

I can't wait until I get a chance to run some better stuff and see something that doesn't look like mountain dew in my sight glass hahaha. This is only a hobby for me and my own personal use and I don't get to much hobby time unfortunately.



thoughts?

 

[Gray Wolf]

So I finally got a chance to run my terp for the first time yesterday. I had some 6 month old trim from some shwaggy outdoor mids. There was still a bunch of fan leaves in it and stuff... not good material, in fact stuff I bet most people wouldn't run but someone just gave it to me and its been in my freezer ever since so I figured if I was gonna mess something up on my first run I would rather do it with my more worthless stuff.

I'm running a MKIIIA with a 36" column, a sight glass, the new shower mod, a 12" x 6" base, and the mega flow hose. I believe everything else was according to the original design. I've got about 8 lbs of butane in my tank that's been chilling in a deep freezer.

View Image

View Image

I had 2.5 lbs of material and managed to pull about 2.5% out of it. I wasn't really sure what to expect. Does that seem about accurate? On every 1/2 lb tube I ran 2 overflows, 2 dumps, and one shower.

I burped my tank before some runs and I didn't before others, and I'm not sure if that was the cause, but I couldn't really seem to find a pattern, some column fills took only 30 seconds and others took up to 2 minutes for the first bottom up flood. All of the tubes were packed to the same density.

It also seems like dumping didn't work the way I expected sometimes after I opened the dump valve I would see the pressure jump from -10 up to 10 but I wouldn't see the butane moving down in my sight glass for possibly a few minutes, it was almost like it wasn't moving at first. And at the rate it moved I calculated it took about 8 - 15 minutes per 36" tube to dump all the way down, does that seem normal?

I can't wait until I get a chance to run some better stuff and see something that doesn't look like mountain dew in my sight glass hahaha. This is only a hobby for me and my own personal use and I don't get to much hobby time unfortunately.

View Image

thoughts?

The idea behind he added top rinse, is that when you open the bottom dump, instead of opening the vent valve, you open the top rinse valve, and rinse all the enriched butane out of the system with fresh butane.

After that dump/rinse, the flood valve is closed and the vent valve opened. At that point, you have only gravity clearing the column, because both the pot and the vent line from it are under positive pressure until most of the butane is recovered.

 

[Young Bull]

The idea behind he added top rinse, is that when you open the bottom dump, instead of opening the vent valve, you open the top rinse valve, and rinse all the enriched butane out of the system with fresh butane.

After that dump/rinse, the flood valve is closed and the vent valve opened. At that point, you have only gravity clearing the column, because both the pot and the vent line from it are under positive pressure until most of the butane is recovered.

So you run your top down rinse at the beginning of all dumps? How long do you run the shower for and how do you tell when your tube is completely dumped? I kind of want to put a sight glass at the bottom of my tube as well..

 

[Gray Wolf]

So you run your top down rinse at the beginning of all dumps? How long do you run the shower for and how do you tell when your tube is completely dumped? I kind of want to put a sight glass at the bottom of my tube as well..

I only run one dump, and rinse the material in conjunction with that single dump.

I'm currently using time, because thus far available sight glasses are not rated for the pressure they can see when enclosed between the two isolation valves, and things heat up. We are working on developing a sight glass suitable for that application.

The Terpenator systems tell you how long it takes to flood a column, regardless of how you pack it, by simply timing how long it takes to overflow when flooded from the bottom. We simply flood one column volumns worth of butane through in a rinse, after dumping the columns.

 

[icdog]

I added a sight glass to the top of my mkiiia with the top flush connections. I have been using the normal running procedure. When I'm done all the floods and am at -10, I open the vent valve and then the dump valve. The sight glass is usually about half full for quite a few minutes after the dump valve is fully open. So far it only empties when I close either the vent valve or the NEW valve at the top of the column.
At this point I do the top down flush and I time it for a few seconds less then it took to do a flood.

GW is it better to dump first and then flush and then open the vent valve? Or do you think it matters either way? I thought the point of the flush was to get everything out of the column.

When you say things heat up for the sight glass, is this when you are adding heat to the column to recover?
Or is there some point when doing normal flooding and the vent valve and dump valves are closed there can be heat to crack the sight glass?

 

[Young Bull]

I added a sight glass to the top of my mkiiia with the top flush connections. I have been using the normal running procedure. When I'm done all the floods and am at -10, I open the vent valve and then the dump valve. The sight glass is usually about half full for quite a few minutes after the dump valve is fully open. So far it only empties when I close either the vent valve or the NEW valve at the top of the column.
At this point I do the top down flush and I time it for a few seconds less then it took to do a flood.

GW is it better to dump first and then flush and then open the vent valve? Or do you think it matters either way? I thought the point of the flush was to get everything out of the column.

When you say things heat up for the sight glass, is this when you are adding heat to the column to recover?
Or is there some point when doing normal flooding and the vent valve and dump valves are closed there can be heat to crack the sight glass?

Yeah I have been using the new upper vent valve instead of the old lower one on the lid and it seemed to lower faster for me if I left the vent valve closed when I had the dump valve open. It is hard to say because it is so reactive when you open the vent valve but it didn't seem like it moved down very much when it was open.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I added a sight glass to the top of my mkiiia with the top flush connections. I have been using the normal running procedure. When I'm done all the floods and am at -10, I open the vent valve and then the dump valve. The sight glass is usually about half full for quite a few minutes after the dump valve is fully open. So far it only empties when I close either the vent valve or the NEW valve at the top of the column.
At this point I do the top down flush and I time it for a few seconds less then it took to do a flood.

GW is it better to dump first and then flush and then open the vent valve? Or do you think it matters either way? I thought the point of the flush was to get everything out of the column.

When you say things heat up for the sight glass, is this when you are adding heat to the column to recover?
Or is there some point when doing normal flooding and the vent valve and dump valves are closed there can be heat to crack the sight glass?

I open the flood valve in conjunction with opening the dump valve. I then open the vent valve, after I close the flood valve.

When the valves are closed on both sides of the sight glass, and the column is full of butane, it expands considerably with heat.

Both exploding sight glasses were from the operator closing the valves and then losing track of what they were doing, while medicated and yacking with someone else.

 

[rb extractors]

did you say exploding sight glass?????