Water Cooled Growers Unite!

[budleydoright]

I'm curius what you think the Chillking/Banks units have in them?
I have discussed this many times with the manufacturer of the heat exchangers and this is the most complex discussion I have had.
I have a cuz that is a refrigeration guy so tools and knowledge aren't a problem. I'm not suggesting that this is for everyone. I just don't get the same value from a purpose built unit unless the manufacture is in my town, which they are not. Now a Goodman, Carrier or Trane dealer can be found everywhere. That is why I feel more comfortable building mine from repurposed parts and having all of the modifications external to the unit. Plus like I said I can get it done for about $1500. bucks. I'm currently looking at a 5ton nordyne condenser for under a grand brand new.

Like I said, I know just enough about this to get it done!

 

[Ez Rider]

I'm curius what you think the Chillking/Banks units have in them?
I have discussed this many times with the manufacturer of the heat exchangers and this is the most complex discussion I have had.
I have a cuz that is a refrigeration guy so tools and knowledge aren't a problem. I'm not suggesting that this is for everyone. I just don't get the same value from a purpose built unit unless the manufacture is in my town, which they are not. Now a Goodman, Carrier or Trane dealer can be found everywhere. That is why I feel more comfortable building mine from repurposed parts and having all of the modifications external to the unit. Plus like I said I can get it done for about $1500. bucks. I'm currently looking at a 5ton nordyne condenser for under a grand brand new.

Like I said, I know just enough about this to get it done!

The chillking is a window mount a/c which has been modified to operate at the correct evaporative/condensing pressures to function as a chiller. The banks is an outdoor condensing unit, same principle. Without this "balancing" of operating pressures, you don't get maximum performance. That's the only point I'm making. I'm sure a knowledgeable tech can sort it out. I'm looking into it myself. I have all the tools too, but most people don't. I'm thinking it's a matter of modifying/changing the refrigerant metering device, but I'm not positive. Hopefully I can speak with an expert about it tomorrow.

I live in a major city, with lots of hvac-r salvage yards and independent supply houses , and I know a few people too. Running down a deal on a used small industrial chiller/ahu just seems easier to me. Most of the salvage guys smoke, so barter is always possible. Sometimes I forget we're not all living in the same city/situation. Mea culpa.

If you're going to go with a new a/c condenser, see if you can find a "dent and scratch" model. I picked up a nice 5ton for my mom's house that way. It had a big crease in the sheet metal, where they had hit it with a forklift, cosmetic damage only. The $1500 unit became a $500 "dent and scratch" with full warranty, and the dent is facing a wall where it can't be seen. Most supply houses have "dent and scratch" specials if you ask. You may get real lucky and find an actual chiller.

 

[budleydoright]

If you're going to go with a new a/c condenser, see if you can find a "dent and scratch" model. I picked up a nice 5ton for my mom's house that way. It had a big crease in the sheet metal, where they had hit it with a forklift, cosmetic damage only. The $1500 unit became a $500 "dent and scratch" with full warranty, and the dent is facing a wall where it can't be seen. Most supply houses have "dent and scratch" specials if you ask. You may get real lucky and find an actual chiller.

That's exactly what I'm looking for! a 500 dollar new unit!
I know the first one we did, we charged it while it had a typical load on it and he charged it up until a particular temperature was reached at a point on the copper lines going into and out of the evaporator.

My point about local is simply that I don't live in CO where hydroinnovations is located. Service would require shipping for me.

I will definitely do a thread on this if I go this route. I may just go easy and stick a split in there.

 

[Ttystikk]

That's exactly what I'm looking for! a 500 dollar new unit!
I know the first one we did, we charged it while it had a typical load on it and he charged it up until a particular temperature was reached at a point on the copper lines going into and out of the evaporator.

My point about local is simply that I don't live in CO where hydroinnovations is located. Service would require shipping for me.

I will definitely do a thread on this if I go this route. I may just go easy and stick a split in there.

You don't need Hydro Innovations in your backyard to have access to effective repair. A reputable HVAC mechanical shop well know what to do, just make certain that the person who works on it has had water chilling experience.

The unit itself is just as Ez Rider described it. It's a modified Frigidaire unit, so the evaporator side is inside a pigtail waterline instead of an air to air radiator. Different head pressure (lower, if memory serves, but I have no numbers) of Freon inside and that's the extent of the modifications.

The advantage remains; it comes out of your house and into your trunk with a buddy's help, so no one needs to know where it's installed to service it. A bigger AC or minisplit can't do that without busting the Freon seal.

 

[budleydoright]

This is the style in the chillking banks units. I have sourced out the same units they use.

 

[Ez Rider]

This is the style in the chillking banks units. I have sourced out the same units they use.

The type of heat exchanger you use isn't the issue, as long as it's an actual chiller type exchanger.

Like Ttystikk said, the chiller works on different head(and suction) pressures than a residential a/c is designed to operate at. These pressures being correct is the key to the machine operating at PEAK efficiency. Banks and chillking are modifying the unit to compensate for this. I've been busy harvesting, and haven't had time to talk to my expert yet, so I'm not sure exactly how they do it. I've never actually had either one right in front of me, and I've never been motivated/bored enough to open up mine(eco-plus commercial grade) because it's in an awkward spot.

I'm not poking holes in your plan Budley. I'd like to see you wind up with the best possible machine you can. I'm positive you(or your guy) can do it with the correct controls. I will speak to my expert when I'm a little less busy.

 

[budleydoright]

I'm not poking holes in your plan Budley. I'd like to see you wind up with the best possible machine you can. I'm positive you(or your guy) can do it with the correct controls. I will speak to my expert when I'm a little less busy.

I'm starting to think you don't believe me when I tell you I know just enough about this to get it done. Getting it done means a fully functioning chiller that works exactly like the one used for inspiration!

That item in my last post is the brand, and one of them is the same exact model used in a Chillking Banks 5t chiller.

 

[Ez Rider]

I'm starting to think you don't believe me when I tell you I know just enough about this to get it done. Getting it done means a fully functioning chiller that works exactly like the one used for inspiration!

That item in my last post is the brand, and one of them is the same exact model used in a Chillking Banks 5t chiller.

I am now convinced you know exactly what you're doing

 

[TooHighTider]

Does anyone here or their HVAC friends have any knowledge on the solar assisted ac units. They use vacuum tubes to take some workload off of the compressor to save electricity.

I've seen some on ebay and alibaba but don't know much about them.

I'm interested to see if they really work and are reliable. I'd like to convert one of the window unit types into a water chiller.

I've seen home size units as well, but I'm interested in the window unit types.

Thanks

 

[budleydoright]

Have never seen anything like that. Refrigeration that is produced with heat is typically an amonia type refrigerant. Not real common but getting more popular due to solar.

 

[TooHighTider]

I've looked around on the net and couldn't find any information.

The only info seems to be on the websites that are trying to sell them and you know how honest sales people can be about their product.

I asked a question on a website that I have gone to for years (builditsolar), a DIY kind of website, and they didn't have an answer. They just said that vacuum tubes were pretty fragile or something like that.

I'm really interested in this if anybody has any direction to point me in.

Thanks

 

[Ttystikk]

Fragile vacuum tubes for solar cooling, and I live in an area prone to hail and high winds. No bueno! Fortunately, it's dry here so swamp chilling is highly effective and very affordable.

 

[Ttystikk]

Today, my 2 Ton ChillKing window mount unit FAILED. It's only 9 months old!

Warranty process has already been started; I will keep you all up to date on how my claim is treated.

I'm not dead in the water; because this HAS HAPPENED BEFORE WITH CHILLKING, I have a second, rebuilt 2 Ton ChillKing window mount unit! It's currently handling chilling chores until the first one gets fixed.

It failed in MARCH? IN COLD WEATHER? WHILE IT SAT INSIDE ALL WINTER AND NEVER SAW SUB FREEZING TEMPERATURES?! I will be very interested in the diagnosis...

 

[Ez Rider]

Today, my 2 Ton ChillKing window mount unit FAILED. It's only 9 months old!

Warranty process has already been started; I will keep you all up to date on how my claim is treated.

I'm not dead in the water; because this HAS HAPPENED BEFORE WITH CHILLKING, I have a second, rebuilt 2 Ton ChillKing window mount unit! It's currently handling chilling chores until the first one gets fixed.

It failed in MARCH? IN COLD WEATHER? WHILE IT SAT INSIDE ALL WINTER AND NEVER SAW SUB FREEZING TEMPERATURES?! I will be very interested in the diagnosis...

Usually, it's some chickenshit relay/switch gone bad. $200 to diagnose, $2 to fix. I've seldom seen a hermetic compressor go bad. I'd go after it with my multi-meter. There's very little that can actually go wrong with your unit. Does chillking cover the shipping?

Having a backup chiller is sweet! If mine goes down, I'll buy a new one while I'm waiting on parts for the other. I believe in having spares for all equipment. Shit never breaks at 11am on monday, it's usually more like 11pm on saturday. The chiller is the only thing I don't have a spare of. I am able to repair it myself(certified), which simplifies matters in case of a breakdown, but I still want a spare. $1K insn't much to invest for piece of mind anyway.

 

[Ttystikk]

EzRider, your guess seems to fit the facts thus far. They'll tell me what's wrong with it tomorrow and as long as it isn't the compressor, it should be ready for me Thursday.

Yes, I have a 'spare' 2 Ton ChillKing window mount unit- the truth is that I'll need them both as temperatures warm. I had an AC tech BREAK one last summer, and I got the second one while waiting for the first to get fixed. The warranty wrangle took far longer than the repair...

Meanwhile, Colorado has COLD tapwater 8 months of the year, so I used cold water in my cooling system for two weeks to bridge the gap. Backups for backups...

 

[Ttystikk]

Hydro Innovations CUSTOMER SERVICE UPDATE

Hydro Innovations CUSTOMER SERVICE UPDATE

I told y'all I'd shoot straight about how Hydro Innovations is taking care of me.

They called me back within the hour with several options to proceed; bring it in, or have any of several authorized reps do a service call. They explained that ChillKing is not an in house brand, it's another separate company with whom Hydro Innovations did a lot of business when they were based in Texas. One of the reasons they now build all of their own chillers, even the smaller ones like mine, is because they were not happy with the number of service calls these units generated. They stopped doing business with ChillKing some several years ago, and so the warranty period they were responsible for has run out on all units that got sold.... but some sat in inventory at retail shops, and ended up in the hands of people like me.

Rather than attempt to wash their hands of the whole thing, they've chosen instead to back the original parts only warranty AND diagnose the problem gratis if I could get it to them. If it's a cheap fix like a capacitor, it will be a done deal. If it's the compressor, they'll work with the manufacturer- the unit has a five year warranty from date of manufacture... April of 2010! Yeah, this thing sat around in inventory for a minute before it came home with me last summer!

I called friends until I got ahold of a pal with a van- and I got a tour of their very spacious and complete facility, got a peek at several projects they've got in the works- great stuff!- and came away with some extremely fascinating news about their new in-house Banks brand of specialty built chilling systems. More on that soon, too.

In short, they had the chance to bounce the ball back to ChillKing and sweep it under the rug- and instead, they've handled it themselves from half court for three points.

I'll let ya know what the diagnosis is when they call me.

 

[Ttystikk]

Hydro Innovations Boulder facilities tour!

Hydro Innovations Boulder facilities tour!

I went to Hydro Innovations today and was treated to quite a tour of facilities and equipment. For those who show interest, I'll be happy to get into detail, but here's the upshot of the visit;

Water chilling for small commercial or home use is now a reality, AND adding a hot water circuit to replace your furnace/hot water/facility heating system is on the list of STANDARD OPTIONS. Do you have any idea of the potential of 'water cooled process chilling'? This unit- complete with a warranty that's obviously taken seriously by everyone who works there, their brand or not, will pay for itself with that hot water circuit alone!

It gets better; if your hot water needs are sporadic, and most are, this unit AUTOMATICALLY dumps excess heat into the outside air whenever the hot water circuit can't keep up. That's just such an awesome slam dunk I'm not sure why anyone would ever choose a traditional furnace, AC and water heater again!

So the 'waste' heat from your grow is now readily available to use for everything from hot running water to radiant heat floors, heated driveways, water heated hot tub, outdoor aquaponic tanks in any season besides summer, greenhouses, etc etc etc.

Here's another thing that hot water will do; heat your grow room at night so dehuey can continue around the clock. Usually done with an electric heater, this approach drastically improves efficiency by reusing waste heat instead of another 800-1500W of power, while maintaining control over the room's climate better than ever.

The cold water circuit can chill your house as well as your op, and why shouldn't we be as comfortable as our leafy ladies? If you prefer cold water aquaponics, the cold circuit has you covered through hot summer months. It also covers room cooling, dehuey, climate control in living and working spaces, RDWC- and I'll even rig up a tub with a cold coil and some water and it will chill beer and soda to 45f too! Polar bear contests in July, anyone? LOL

 

[Ez Rider]

EzRider, your guess seems to fit the facts thus far. They'll tell me what's wrong with it tomorrow and as long as it isn't the compressor, it should be ready for me Thursday.

Yes, I have a 'spare' 2 Ton ChillKing window mount unit- the truth is that I'll need them both as temperatures warm. I had an AC tech BREAK one last summer, and I got the second one while waiting for the first to get fixed. The warranty wrangle took far longer than the repair...

Meanwhile, Colorado has COLD tapwater 8 months of the year, so I used cold water in my cooling system for two weeks to bridge the gap. Backups for backups...

If I ran my frescas dtw for 2 weeks, the water cost would be close to 1K, water ain't cheap in so-cal.

Sounds like you're being taken care of on the warranty. It's so nice to run into people who do business the RIGHT way. I would like to know the diagnosis. I'm betting a capacitor or a relay.

 

[Ttystikk]

If I ran my frescas dtw for 2 weeks, the water cost would be close to 1K, water ain't cheap in so-cal.

Sounds like you're being taken care of on the warranty. It's so nice to run into people who do business the RIGHT way. I would like to know the diagnosis. I'm betting a capacitor or a relay.

I did not run the water full blast, far from it, yet I still averaged 1000 gallons a day. It cost me about $100 extra, but I only do it as a last resort.

They ended up doing a very thorough repair, from replacing the oil filter for the compressor and cleaning the very dirty compressor section to replacing the cap and adjusting head pressure. They told me it was so bad it looked like I'd been sold a used unit instead of a new one.

They charged me NOTHING. Parts was covered under warranty, but someone spent several hours going through my machine, making sure it was performing at its peak efficiency for me.

That, folks, is how you earn a customer! What cements the deal is that I haven't found another company that builds better water chilling equipment for our specific industry needs. Durability, efficiency, flexibility, low cost, and of course taking care of me when I need it all point to these people as the hands down class of the field.

If a thousand clams power Ton of cooling sounds expensive, consider that operating cost is roughly 1/3 of AC at a given heat load, plus being able to handle multiple spaces that are all on independent schedules, Plus it does your dehuey, PLUS it can optionally put those BTus into a hot water circuit, saving the customer potentially ask the money they might otherwise spend heating everything from their house to hot water to the hot tub to greenhouses, aquaponics tanks, etc etc.

Air just will not adequately move your BTus, especially not in high altitude, arid climates like Colorado. Using water opens the door to energy savings conventional air based systems simply aren't capable of at any practical price. Once water is used to move heat and cold around, the environment is idea for a fuel cell installation, which kicks the overall efficiency level up yet another notch.

When all is said and done, I believe that using all of these ideas together can reduce overall indoor cultivation costs by at least 2/3 per unit of yield.

 

[mcnasty]

I've been looking into water cooling since I really don't want to run my electricity bill up much higher. Do you guys have any links for products other than hydro innovations? I've been unable to find much searching.


My hope was to keep my air cooled hoods and use water cooling for the room. I have a well that runs cold year round, I'd just drain the water back into my well.