budleydoright
Member
Too hot and dry on the insides of them when they're on but when they're off no doubt plus cold condensation dripping on plants at night is an invite for PM.
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Water Cooled Growers Unite!
- Thread starter toohighmf
- Start date
Too hot and dry on the insides of them when they're on but when they're off no doubt plus cold condensation dripping on plants at night is an invite for PM.
That's how I see it. Besides, I only need a 15-20 degree temp difference for my icebox to effectively cool the air. I figure ~75f is where I want my tent to be(lights on), so if my water is chilled to ~55f, I should be fine for cooling my air, but safe from going under the dewpoint. I'm not in a sealed room situation(nor is it feasible), so humidity isn't really a problem anyway. The only time it's humid around here is in the summer, and my central a/c takes care of that.
I've got to take a look at making a temperature or time controlled bypass for the icebox though. Got to go through some catalogs...
budleydoright
Member
http://www.ebay.com/itm/All-Purpose...583?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6d13ed9f
I have had good results with this exact unit. read out is only in celcius but once it's set you can forget!
Looks perfect for controlling a 120v 3way valve...thanks.
Ttystikk
Member
The fact that the inner chamber around the bulb isn't sealed is news to me- and makes it a no brainer to stay above dewpoint. That's why I keep asking questions of people who run the gear; I learn stuff! Thanks for the insight.
Glad to help
Here's a few pics of the ends. The glow gives you a clear idea of the gaps.
Any other questions...feel free to ask.
poindexterous
Member
Yeah fresca/best-coast screwed up in the beginning with the dual gasket ends, mine corroded very, very badly, and then paying to fix their mistake, not to mention all the time and energy to rebuild them, irritated me some. However the new uni-gasket ends have been maintenance free for years now, so I'll forgive them for a little product design trial and error.
The guy at fresca/best-coast suggested running them without the end covers(opposite the socket), he said only a minor amount of heat would escape, as most is absorbed via the surrounding water. This may be a good idea if your coolant water isn't so cool, my early coolant rez was undersized thus the water got up to 90 deg F with all lights on plus water cooled CO2 gen. I had a couple high quality HPS 1000 bulbs fail at what seemed unusually low hours, thought maybe they weren't cooled enough, who knows. Ends covers off may have saved them. Now I keep the water cooler via an outdoor rez thus keep the end covers on.
I still think the end units and gasket could be much better designed, and thought of building my own, though it's not on the top of my to-do list. The nipple on the uni-gasket is paper thin, thus I reenforced it and made very sure the coolant water can never make contact with the aluminum body.
Anyway it's all good and fun. Love the water cooled concept despite little evolution in the available products. 1/2" hose has a charm over 6" or 8" duct.
P
The guy at fresca/best-coast suggested running them without the end covers(opposite the socket), he said only a minor amount of heat would escape, as most is absorbed via the surrounding water. This may be a good idea if your coolant water isn't so cool, my early coolant rez was undersized thus the water got up to 90 deg F with all lights on plus water cooled CO2 gen. I had a couple high quality HPS 1000 bulbs fail at what seemed unusually low hours, thought maybe they weren't cooled enough, who knows. Ends covers off may have saved them. Now I keep the water cooler via an outdoor rez thus keep the end covers on.
I still think the end units and gasket could be much better designed, and thought of building my own, though it's not on the top of my to-do list. The nipple on the uni-gasket is paper thin, thus I reenforced it and made very sure the coolant water can never make contact with the aluminum body.
Anyway it's all good and fun. Love the water cooled concept despite little evolution in the available products. 1/2" hose has a charm over 6" or 8" duct.
P
budleydoright
Member
Well I may end up ordering those parts. Seems like everyone using frescas kinda quit talking about them, which made me believe we all suffered the same fate. With a positive review from Poindexter on the long term reliability of his and the fact that I have 3 off them and a chiller sitting on a shelf, I think I'll try to fire them up soon.
My mono-gasket units have been flawless for 2 years now. The dual gaskets worked fine for me too(1 1/2) years. The powder coating was gone when I got mine(used), but the aluminum ends will only "rot" if you let the cooling water fall out of the 7.5-8.0 ph range. This is in the instructions, and I'm told it's why they won't replace the ends for free. I know a guy who's been running the dual gasket model for 6 years with no problem except the powder coating coming off.
If I had more space, I'd go to an air handler instead of the frescas. For running 2k in a 4x8 tent the frescas are unbeatable. Instead of a bunch of 6-8" flex-duct running all over to pull cool air and dump hot air, I've got 2, 1/2" lines running out the window. I do run an intake and exhaust, but it's all contained inside the tent.
If you get the new ends, get new tension rods too. Aligning the two tubes on the mono-gasket while tightening the rods can be a bit fiddly. Get a friend to help. Once you have it back together and holding water, don't ever take it apart again! I pump CLR and silica sand through mine to clean out the insides between runs. Takes about 1/2hr if I leave the lights in place.
budleydoright
Member
That's all good info. 2 of my units came from sunlight supply and there were absolutely no instructions with them, and as I mentioned being told not to worry......
I did love the silence! All this discussion about water cooling has me looking at a 4-5 ton chiller and a couple of air handlers. I can build the chiller for about 1000-1500 depending on what I pay for the condensing unit. There's no doubt dropping water lines around my space is much easier than refrigerant lines. My space is never static, it changes and evolves regularly as we grow. The ability to reconfigure the air handlers at anytime is a real plus.
FWIW, sunlight supply pretty much SUCKS BALLS.
4-5ton chiller? You ain't playing games, especially in a flip flop. I'd scour e-bay. You may find a great deal on a professionally built chiller( you can find ahu's too). DIY chillers loose a lot of efficiency because an a/c heat exchanger doesn't work well in water. Unless you change out the heat exchanger, you'll lose 25% BTU capacity...at least. The colder you set it, the worse it will get. The new exchangers are affordable, but you'll need to braze the new one in. This mean evacuating the refrigerant as well. You'll also need some sort of watertight vessel for the new exchanger. This is what chillking basically does to "make" their window units.
After weighing the pros and cons, I opted for a ready built unit. It costs a little more, but between turn-key, and a 2 year warranty, it's way worth it. Remember, e-bay can be your best friend.
budleydoright
Member
Oh, I would be buying a condesing unit without a evaporator and cutting in a chiller coil and all of the needed temp controls. It would be pretty much like the Banks unit except I would likely mount the chiller coil on the outside of the unit. Less work.
I'm not running a flip just 10-12k in the high desert.
The "condensing unit" IS your chiller. The chiller vessel has an "evaporative coil" inside, which in conjunction with the condensing coil/fan chills the water. All of this is part of the actual chiller unit. You pump the chilled water to an ahu/fan-coil in your grow space which contains a water coil and a fan. The chiller is run at a set temp, usually ~48F. The fan-coil's fan runs when cooling of the space is called for. When cooling isn't called for, you by-pass the water back to the chiller/tank. This is just the basics...
I'm not sure I understand what you're wanting/trying to do.
budleydoright
Member
There are 2 parts, the condensing unit (hot side) and the evaporator (cold side). A Banks chiller is a condensing unit from a window ac or a split. with a refrigerant to water evaporator coil inside. It is likely this type:
But may be this type:
I will be using the coil type and instead of taking the condensing unit apart to stuff it inside, I will just attach it to the refrigerant lines and mount it outside of the condenser.
It will look something like this:
Trust me, I know just enough about this to get it done! lol
But may be this type:
I will be using the coil type and instead of taking the condensing unit apart to stuff it inside, I will just attach it to the refrigerant lines and mount it outside of the condenser.
It will look something like this:
Trust me, I know just enough about this to get it done! lol
Attachments
Your pics aren't showing...could you hold the keyboard a little closer to your mouth?
budleydoright
Member
Your pics aren't showing...could you hold the keyboard a little closer to your mouth?
1
Attachments
I see your pics now. I got to go pick up my lunch, but I'll get back to you in a bit.
You've got a few different things going here.
Your first pic appears to be a plate type heat exchanger. Water and refrigerant flow through in separate channels, cooling the water. This is part of the chiller, the "chiller vessel".
Your second pic is of a coil-type heat exchanger. There are two coils, one with water, one with refrigerant. The refrigerant will remove heat from the water as they flow, cooling the water. Again, this type of coil would act as the "chiller vessel" I'm talking about. If you already have a chiller, either of these might make a good paper-weight.
This is what I mean by water chilled ahu http://www.aerosysinc.com/DCW.php The fan is the only moving part. The water is pushed by a properly sized pump. This ahu will also dehumidify when the blower is running.
Your third pic appears to be a stand alone chiller. With a properly sized pump (with by-pass), it would feed an ahu like the one I linked. DIY is cool to a point, but if all the components aren't sized right, the system won't work right. On the scale you're talking, a pro rig will quickly pay for itself, especially if you can devise a method to use the waste heat.
I'm not an expert, but I do know a little. Happy to help anyone CHILL
budleydoright
Member
Actually sizing the components is quite easy. You buy a 4 ton condensing unit and cut in a 4 ton evaporator and buy a 4 ton air handler or a combination of air handlers.
What you refer to as a chilling vessel, is aka as a refrigerant to fluid evaporator/heat exchanger.
All the same, it really isn't rocket science. Will have to adjust the refrigerant as most condensers are filled to handle a 15ft line set. and this will be less than a foot.
The last one I made worked very well. Many of the coil manufactures can advise you on which pieces to use.
What you refer to as a chilling vessel, is aka as a refrigerant to fluid evaporator/heat exchanger.
All the same, it really isn't rocket science. Will have to adjust the refrigerant as most condensers are filled to handle a 15ft line set. and this will be less than a foot.
The last one I made worked very well. Many of the coil manufactures can advise you on which pieces to use.
I understand where you're coming from, and I agree to a point. You can solder up a brazed-plate or tube-in-vessel heat exchanger to an a/c condenser of the same nominal btu's, give it enough water flow, and it will chill water admirably.
It will not work as well as a purpose built chiller of the same btu rating. The a/c condenser is designed to operate with an evaporator(gas) temp of ~45F. The chilled water evaporator(heat exchanger) is designed to operate at ~35F(gas). One is a/c, the other is refrigeration. All a/c and refrigeration work off of specific temperature/pressure relationships. It ain't rocket science, but it is physics.
You can further modify the a/c condenser to function as efficiently as a real chiller condenser(as chillking and others do), but at that point you're reinventing the wheel IMHO. You also need tools,equipment, and skills most don't have.
The whole point of chilling is to save money. Sometimes you have to spend some first. I look at my chiller as an investment, not an expense. I've had it less than a year, and I'm sure it's paid for itself.
