Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[JediMasterVon]

Kozmo- First, FF is not the best choice. It is not really organic as they advertise. Alot to get into but you could have made a better choice by mixing your own with stand alone ingredients and had much better luck. I tend to trust only what I put into the mix.

FF comes out of the bag a bit hot so add compost tea (EWC, Molasses and water) atleast once a week to provide micro organisms to digest the nutrients. You don't need to mix it and it would be best if you placed it into containers that will be used for the grow cycle so it will sit undisturbed.

Are you using Blumats?

If not these are the ones you should use.

Are you running a no till?

V

 

[BurnOne]

Why does it have to be soilless? Can't I have a organic soil mix?

Absolutely. It's called soiless because peat and coir are not soil. Also, you can bring in some nasty stuff within soil you dig up outside. Best to sterilize it with heat before using it.
Burn1

 

[h.h.]

Cooking soil is just letting it sit so that the microbes have an opportunity to break down the hotter ingredients before use. Basically raw ingredients supplying nitrogen. Blood meal, guano, manure...A quality premixed soil does not need to cook. Finished compost does not need to be cooked.

Cornmeal will help accelerate compost.

 

[anferneybra]

Fox farms is owned by Monsanto.

There is a clear label on the back of these new ocean forest bags that says the ingredients may cause cancer. Loving it. They also removed the natural and organic label.

Here is my current buffet:

6 - 1.5 cu ft bags of roots organic original soil
2 - 50 L biobizz light mix
2 - 30 lb bags of wiggle worms
5 lbs - blood meal, fish bone meal, bat guano high in phosphorus
3 lbs - rock phosphate
1 lb - kelp meal, alfalfa meal
1 cup - dolomite lime, azomite, epson salt
1/2 cup - elemental, powdered humic acid from BioAG

All mixed together into a large pile to cook for at LEAST 14 days, 30-45 days best to let it mellow out. The first 14 days will be the thermogenic period, followed by a cooling period. Re-mix the pile every 2 weeks to ensure aeration and moisture content.

Next experiment will be to reuse this same recipe of soil that grew my crop, by re-amending it. ROLS I guess.

I am currently running this recipe on 130 plants in 10 gallon pots, totally killing it. Yield is almost on par with my synthetic runs. Quality however, is much higher. Things just look wet with resin.

I water tons of basic MM teas on this stuff and then just fresh RO water. Cheers!

Any critiques on the recipe are welcome, as this is obviously a modified super soil nothing is concrete.

I believe that cooking or creating a thermogenic pile when making your own soil is needed.

T

 

[Team.Lift]

http://greenthumbcity.com/category/soil/

This is a little snippet on the fox farm, they are claiming it is still family owned. I am researching now, I would like to find some definitive answers on that, because they should be removed from grow shops all together if this is the case.

foxfarmfertilizer.com has proprietor name and claims to be a family business.

 

[dank.frank]

Fox farms is owned by Monsanto.

I don't care what other forums do...but on ICmag - ESPECIALLY in the organic section of the site...

We DO NOT make baseless claims or repeat hearsay as truth.

Sited sources for this...???



dank.Frank

 

[Team.Lift]

Dank.frank, I still have yet to find anything serious.

I'm kinda guessing this is bong room gossip.

 

[JediMasterVon]

I use native soil in my mixes with no adverse effects. I have never had to sterilize it and would not want to because I use it for the micro organisms it contains.

V

 

[2tm23]

Hi there

I`m reusing my soil. Initially I had like 120L of used soil (Plagron Light Mix used with Green Planet nutrients, organics). I mixed all the ingridients like blood meal and all for the total of 720L of total soil I was to have after harvest into that 120L. Than something happend and I had to move house and decided I wont need that much soil (also didn`t have where to store so much) and got rid of around 200-300L of used not mixed with that 120L soil. Rest was mixed which gave me around 500L of recycled soil with ingridients for 720L and obviously soil is too hot now but plants are already in it. They look ok but grow slowly so my question is should I let them be or do a little bit of flush to make the soil not that hot? Could someone advise me please?

 

[Kozmo]

Clearing the soiled air

Clearing the soiled air

Kozmo- First, FF is not the best choice. It is not really organic as they advertise. Alot to get into but you could have made a better choice by mixing your own with stand alone ingredients and had much better luck. I tend to trust only what I put into the mix.

FF comes out of the bag a bit hot so add compost tea (EWC, Molasses and water) atleast once a week to provide micro organisms to digest the nutrients. You don't need to mix it and it would be best if you placed it into containers that will be used for the grow cycle so it will sit undisturbed.

Are you using Blumats?

If not these are the ones you should use.

Are you running a no till?

V

I fear I must use what soil I have. It's zero degrees here for quite a while. My thoughts in going into the soil were to mix them all in equal parts in a plastic cement mixing tub(brand new and sterile). Then take four seed heater matts and bury them in the mix and let sit for three to for weeks. Now that I have been told to use tea I wil, making sure to keep the soil moist over this time.
I hope I can get some level of approval. If that be if its was scaled on a 1-10 I'm hoping for a 7. As of comments of late I feel it would be a 5.

As far as bluematts... I had no idea what they were till now. If your talking about a watering system for the plants, my flowering room is a aquaponic system. The plants will be watering themselves accept go the weekly tea they will be receiving for obvious benefits. If you mean I should keep my soil moist with this system then okay I can do that. Regardless my veg/clone room will be a 2x4 tent and this watering system sounds real good for that.

The plans for the grow is always experimental. I have air-pots 5.5 gal. For the mothers and 2-3 gal. Airpots for the SOG type grow I will be doing in the flower room. I am not looking for large plants. One big central cola will do. I have little head room and have four LED lighting fixtures. Sorry got off track... The soil will go where it will stay. A "no till run". I have no idea what that is. But I hadn't planned on tilling in anything. Just thought I could use the soil for what it was worth and dispose in the garden or park next to my house. Although I am very open to suggestions and will not be buying FF products and be ammending my own soils from here on out.

Thank you for your thoughts and kindness

 

[anferneybra]

Ok after a couple calls to my local reps and a major distributor in sunlight they have assured me that Fox Farms has indeed NOT been acquired. I apologize for the slander.

However, when a company makes drastic changes to what used to be a great product, changes the label to a possible cancer causing product. I get concerned...

You can see how the 2 things go hand in hand, changing a major label and then the rumor of being bought out by a terrible conglomerate.

Either way, they won't be getting any more soil sales from myself.

T

 

[Kozmo]

Puke

Puke

Ok after a couple calls to my local reps and a major distributor in sunlight they have assured me that Fox Farms has indeed NOT been acquired. I apologize for the slander.

However, when a company makes drastic changes to what used to be a great product, changes the label to a possible cancer causing product. I get concerned...

You can see how the 2 things go hand in hand, changing a major label and then the rumor of being bought out by a terrible conglomerate.

Either way, they won't be getting any more soil sales from myself.

T

I swear I was going to throw up when I read that...

Peace

Please check out me in the introduce yourself forum.

 

[silver hawaiian]

I was at the store just now, checked the back of the bag.. It's got the generic "This product contains substances known to the state of California to cause cancer.."

..it goes on to state "We do not add these substances to our products, but they are present in the ingredients we use."

Big difference in those two sentences vs. having been acquired by Monsanto and "it causes cancer."

So, aside from a standard Surgeon General warning from California (where it's produced, and where anything is produced that has even the slightest remote odds of being carcinogenic is similarly labeled), what are the other "drastic changes" to the product?

(I'm genuinely curious - I've not bought a new bag of dirt in years)

 

[dank.frank]

It's some what funny as MANY fine dust or particles in organic / natural soil amendments are hazardous to our health...take silica for example via diatomaceous earth. DON'T breathe the stuff!

It's why I always wear gloves and a respirator when mixing soils or working with organics. ALWAYS.

-----

As far as changes in the FFOF in particular - and I can't even really find 100% confirmation on this, but I believe they have an east coast production facility now as well. The difference would be in what the soil is constructed of - composted redwood vs composted pine...and pine is not the superior option by any means.

But again, I can't really state that as fact either...but seems I recall that being the case. I've never called them to get clarification on the matter...

But I know MANY east coasters that were using FFOF made the switch to Roots Organic as everyone was experiencing the same set of plant issues in FFOF and had not changed any aspect of their garden. When they switched to Roots, it was back to their regularly scheduled program - so SOMETHING had to have changed at some point with their (FF) soils - at least on the east coast.



dank.Frank

 

[JediMasterVon]

I fear I must use what soil I have. It's zero degrees here for quite a while. My thoughts in going into the soil were to mix them all in equal parts in a plastic cement mixing tub(brand new and sterile). Then take four seed heater matts and bury them in the mix and let sit for three to for weeks. Now that I have been told to use tea I wil, making sure to keep the soil moist over this time.
I hope I can get some level of approval. If that be if its was scaled on a 1-10 I'm hoping for a 7. As of comments of late I feel it would be a 5.

As far as bluematts... I had no idea what they were till now. If your talking about a watering system for the plants, my flowering room is a aquaponic system. The plants will be watering themselves accept go the weekly tea they will be receiving for obvious benefits. If you mean I should keep my soil moist with this system then okay I can do that. Regardless my veg/clone room will be a 2x4 tent and this watering system sounds real good for that.

The plans for the grow is always experimental. I have air-pots 5.5 gal. For the mothers and 2-3 gal. Airpots for the SOG type grow I will be doing in the flower room. I am not looking for large plants. One big central cola will do. I have little head room and have four LED lighting fixtures. Sorry got off track... The soil will go where it will stay. A "no till run". I have no idea what that is. But I hadn't planned on tilling in anything. Just thought I could use the soil for what it was worth and dispose in the garden or park next to my house. Although I am very open to suggestions and will not be buying FF products and be ammending my own soils from here on out.

Thank you for your thoughts and kindness

FF will work but it is not the 'organic' many of us strive for. You are however going in the correct direction. In the far past under a different name I too used FFOF when it first came out for a blinking moment and found that it is best 'cycled' and re-amended to reach the level of what one expects.

No till..........when the containers whatever the size are left in place and at the end of the previous plants cycle you replant directly into that same container. At this time you will only top dress with what ever you feel the next cycle of plants may need if anything. Keep the containers mulched on the surface to help retain surface moisture as the greater amount of life is in the upper most part of the soil.

Please describe your aquaponic set up for us. I am interested to hear what you are running.

As far as Blumats.........I would never grow without them again.

I will give you a 7 for now. A 10 for effort.

V

 

[Kozmo]

FF will work but it is not the 'organic' many of us strive for. You are however going in the correct direction. In the far past under a different name I too used FFOF when it first came out for a blinking moment and found that it is best 'cycled' and re-amended to reach the level of what one expects.

No till..........when the containers whatever the size are left in place and at the end of the previous plants cycle you replant directly into that same container. At this time you will only top dress with what ever you feel the next cycle of plants may need if anything. Keep the containers mulched on the surface to help retain surface moisture as the greater amount of life is in the upper most part of the soil.

Please describe your aquaponic set up for us. I am interested to hear what you are running.

As far as Blumats.........I would never grow without them again.

I will give you a 7 for now. A 10 for effort.

V

Let me take this opportunity to let you know a little about my grow.

1. Two 200 watt SOL by HGL and Two Black Star 240UV by Lighthouse Hydro. I'm adding in eight 23Watt 5000k (1600 Lumens) Daylight CFL's to promote growth(and hopefully a little heat).
A. I plan on having these sit over a 3 foot by 9 foot bed(3'x9'). One Sol on one end and then the two Blk Stars then the SOL on the other end. The SOL' are supposed to have a 3'x3' footprint. I am covering the middle 3'x3' with the Black Stars.
B.The CFL's will run across the front and rear as side lighting.

2. I Have 5.5 gal. and 2.2 gal. airpots which will be filled with the soil mix that will include equal parts: Fox Farm Ocean forest potting soil, Fox farm original planting mix, Light warrior seed starter, black gold potting soil, and chunky perlite.
A. The bottom of the airpots will sit in the 3'x9' grow bed which is full of hydroton.

3. This "grow bed" is part of an aquaponic system. It is the Drainage table in which the water from the Fish tank will be pumped up to and drained out of(back into the fish tank).
A. This will be my watering method but I do plan on watering once per week with a compost tea. My Tea system is from "Keep it Simple, inc.
B. I have purchased the "Keep it simple 5-gallon Tea brewing system with extended life motor. simplify-tea.com

4.My seed stock is small but I cherish it: 6 white rhino from BC bud depot, 4 Pakistan Chitral Kush Feminized from Cannabiogen, and one Grand Daddy Purple Kens Kush from a friend.

5. I have a cloning machine and a 2'x4' tent with an 8 bulb 4' long T5 light fixture for my Veg area.

I am currently in grow room construction in a basement. Ran my power to it's own 20 amp circuit breaker. Putting outlets on sidewalls and ceiling. I have mortared and painted the block. I insulated, framed, plastic wrapped,drywalled, painted again, and put an appropriate white reflective material on the walls. I have ran duct work and it is prof. sealed. The area is 10'x7'x7'hight. I am putting in pond liner currently for a 200 gallon fish basin which sits on the concrete surrounded by the floor decking. The grow bed(3'x9') will be suspended on all four corners by pulleys directly over the fish. The two Black Star LED's by Lighthouse Hydro and two SOL series 200 watt LED's by hydrogrow(please don't judge me) will also be hung on pulley's. I have two penguin bio filters for keeping a healthy ecosystem. I have a Ehiem canister filter for the biological benefits and circulating the water to the grow area. An submersible pump is also used for circulation and generating heat for the water. Variouse air pumps are in the design throughout to add oxygen for the system.

I feel like I'm forgetting a couple things but that should give you an idea.

I know a picture is worth a thousand words but I am not computer savvy and can not figure how to upload pics into a photo album here on ICMAG. I have a Mac if that even matters.

Thanks for the 7



Kozmo

P. S. You can't smoke effort

 

[silver hawaiian]

LOL at can't smoke effort

 

[Kozmo]

Humer

Humer

LOL at can't smoke effort

Checked out your grow with the blumat's silver. Nice! Had to come back and edit my post to put that P. S. in there. Hope Jedi knows I appreciate the Atta Boy. Saw your from Hawaii and feel for you about prices. My friends tell me when they visit Hawaii from Alaska the price of smoke is through the roof.

 

[Kozmo]

What's the consensus on sunshine mix #4?

 

[redclover]

I guess this is where I can post my mix...I have a 'super coco' that worked very well on the first run. Little more watering than a peat based mix, but the roots were explosive. I had to reamend rock dusts that I forgot...dur. I also had lots of amendments I wanted to just get rid of too. Any advice would be appreciated.

1 x VERY rich EWC
2 x coco
1/2 x rice hulls
1/2 x lava rock
10% biochar

per cu ft:
1 cup kelp, alfalfa, neem, potash, fish bone, gypsum, dolo, blood meal, high n guano, crab shell, bentonite, calphos, and 2 cups oyster shell.

4 cups basalt/glacial rock

Should I expect steam coming from this hotness? Anything I should add or cut out next time?