Pollen chucking, very basic questions

[turnip brain]

HA! finally got my 50 posts and can post a new thread here... Happy happy.

I have started reading some of the detailed threads here about breeding, but I become more confused than enlightened. I am not really looking to become an expert geneticist, only to have a grow this season that nets me seed for future grows.

So I hope it's not too impudent to start a new thread with my own selfish beginner questions specific to what I want to do.

-My growing and breeding goals are very small: This season to produce enough smokeable crop for myself for the year. This is easy, as I need very very little quantity, but the other aspect is to also produce seed for future years.

-I ordered Pakistan chitral kush 10 reg seeds and figure I am bound to get a couple males, so want to produce some seed for future years.

So first question: Will breeding this strain with itself from same pack of seeds produce good seed, or does this kind of inbreeding cause any deterioration in quality of the next generation? I read basics about inbreeding but remain quite confused about this. Don't know how inbred it already is, and another breeder's PCK apparently has genetic problems from inbreeding.

second question: On another thread, a member here argued that potency is the same with or without seed in the bud. My own single anecdotal experience shows me otherwise. Please discuss.

-Third and final question: What's a good strategy to grow some bud for seed and some unpollinated bud for consumption in a single season with limited space? Choose a single plant to pollinate and leave another plant for smokeable bud, or try to partly pollinate a couple different ones for more diversity in next generation seed?

(I'll add here that I have space, seasonal and plant count limitations. I prefer to grow partly outside, potted plants on the porch to be able to save electric costs for lighting, but that my location is super high elevation with extremely short growing season so plan to start seedlings indoors, grow through part of summer outside, then carry plants in and out to tailor lighting hours to provoke flowering. Did this last year, and worked beautifully. I can stage a couple of overlapping grow cycles, but it would be very difficult to isolate pollinated and un pollinated plants from each other due to space restrictions

Thanks for the consideration!!!

 

[WelderDan]

You don't have to pollinate the whole plant, only a bud or two will net plenty of seed. A few seeds in a solitary bud won't kill potency. Seeding the entire plant is another story since the plant does use valuable energy producing a lot of seed, and yield is also affected. Use all the females and males you get to get the most genetic diversity. Use an artist brush to selectively pollinate a lower bud on each female. Easy peasy. Plenty of seed, plenty of seedless smoke.

I do this all the time. I get all the seed I want without seeding the entire plant, and I still enjoy seedless weed.

 

[turnip brain]

You don't have to pollinate the whole plant, only a bud or two will net plenty of seed. A few seeds in a solitary bud won't kill potency. Seeding the entire plant is another story since the plant does use valuable energy producing a lot of seed, and yield is also affected. Use all the females and males you get to get the most genetic diversity. Use an artist brush to selectively pollinate a lower bud on each female. Easy peasy. Plenty of seed, plenty of seedless smoke.

I do this all the time. I get all the seed I want without seeding the entire plant, and I still enjoy seedless weed.

Excellent!

 

[Claude Hopper]

Welder Dan has got it down good.

A plus with less seeds is that they are bigger!

 

[BredForMeds]

less seeds = bigger? were did u learn this? kuz ive had plants give me 100s of seeds.. and they were huge. an others with a few seeds and they were tiny.. this is a genetic trait .. and or could be from different places on plants.. if in buds.. usually are smaller.. then the ones on the stem were ur first pistil and calyxs display wen sexing.

but ive seen a plant with big and small seeds on the same plant. some in buds. some along the main stem..

im going to have to say. GENETIC .

 

[Claude Hopper]

I get some very large seeds when I lightly dust, as seen here with a Golden Tiger that has less than .5% of flowers pollinated:

The original seeds from Ace were small (They were good seeds. I have had 100% germination) I'll post a pick of both in a few weeks and there will be a significant size difference from the original breeder's seed.

Yes, there is an average size for a given plant based on genetics for a given plant. But this size can be manipulated by the grower taking advantage of the fact that the largest strain on a plants resources is in supplying the oils and proteins that go into their seeds.

 

[BredForMeds]

any big breeders want to fill us in ?

 

[BrassNwood]

1st question.. Inbreeding the same strain.. A non issue on your 1st try ..
2nd question.. potency of seeded bud.. Your only going to pollenate 1 lower branch again not an issue
3rd question.. Ahhhh the good part.. Who What When and Where
As I'm a newbee at breeding I'll just run down what I've done so far and you can pick and choose what seems useful..

Planted 4 seeds back in mid Nov.. Took clones as usual when the plants hit 2 feet tall just a day or 2 before I flower..
Flowered out the seedlings and wound up with 4 boys.. the 1st to show I chopped the whole top off the plant set in a cup of water in a transparent box getting sunlight from a window.. This is the one I'm taking pollen from as it ripens.. I can hold a baggie under him about once a day now and tap him for a pollen drop..
I take that baggie outside to a pre trimmed lowest branch on my 4th week flowered girl and put that branch end in the bag and shake..
I've cut off the fans and trimmed off all but the top 4 buds on that branch.. Zipping the bag as shut as possible to limit contamination of the rest of the plant..

I'll let you know how it all works out.. Should get it done as it's both a ton of reading and direct advice from some smart cookies I've met..
The one step I didn't use was cutting the pollen with some flour for better distribution.. Didn't have any handy..

I'll likely toss the 2nd male at this point as I'll have a hard enough time tracking 1 lineage and just keep the single boy as a repeating veg clone for possible further stud use..

 

[aridbud]

"but ive seen a plant with big and small seeds on the same plant. some in buds. some along the main stem..

im going to have to say. GENETIC ".

BINGO! Genetics, my friend.

 

[Sunfire]

Seems like all your answers are here. Crack seeds, take clones, flower seeds, keep all seeds and clones numbered accordingly. Select best 2 or 3 males and females. Watch males, right before sacs open cut the branches and put in cup of water over a piece of glass or black plastic with a white paper bag over it all to allow breathing and no condensation to contain any pollen drift. White bag lets light into bag as branches need 12/12 to keep dropping pollen. After two weeks collect and apply pollen to lower branches. Apply pollen with brush, qtip or finger in room with no draft, bag theto branch and leaveI over night to control pollen drift. Or cut 10 parts cornstarch to 1 part pollen, place mixture in bag put bag over big leafed nugs, seal open end of bag and vigorously shake leave bag overnight. Take bags off while spraying water or pollinated nugs to kill unused pollen and control pollen drift. You can use 1female and 1 male to further inbreed or more to preserve genetics. Potency will not be effected.

 

[sodalitas]

Interesting thread!

 

[TimeKeeper]

Seems like all your answers are here. Crack seeds, take clones, flower seeds, keep all seeds and clones numbered accordingly. Select best 2 or 3 males and females. Watch males, right before sacs open cut the branches and put in cup of water over a piece of glass or black plastic with a white paper bag over it all to allow breathing and no condensation to contain any pollen drift. White bag lets light into bag as branches need 12/12 to keep dropping pollen. After two weeks collect and apply pollen to lower branches. Apply pollen with brush, qtip or finger in room with no draft, bag theto branch and leaveI over night to control pollen drift. Or cut 10 parts cornstarch to 1 part pollen, place mixture in bag put bag over big leafed nugs, seal open end of bag and vigorously shake leave bag overnight. Take bags off while spraying water or pollinated nugs to kill unused pollen and control pollen drift. You can use 1female and 1 male to further inbreed or more to preserve genetics. Potency will not be effected.

Good info here. You don't need to keep the males in 12/12 to keep dropping pollen. Once they start most males can be put back into 18/6 and they will keep dropping.

 

[Bass Akwards]

Questionable Procedure

Questionable Procedure

Planted 4 seeds back in mid Nov.. Took clones as usual when the plants hit 2 feet tall just a day or 2 before I flower..
Flowered out the seedlings and wound up with 4 boys.. the 1st to show I chopped the whole top off the plant set in a cup of water in a transparent box getting sunlight from a window.. This is the one I'm taking pollen from as it ripens..

Using the first male to show might not be a good idea.

You're not giving yourself a chance to benefit from diversity.

Until you can compare the size and number of pollen sacks to a brother, you have no way of knowing how it compares to them. You also don't know whether it's an odd-ball pheno, or even how it's aroma compares.

It's a much better procedure to flower-out all the males, and pollinate with a mixture of all. There's no telling whether "good" or "less good" traits are found in, or can be pssed on frpm, any of them.

If seeds for future harvest is the point, having the benefit of a larger, wider, gene pool makes it much easier to make selection at any time later, from a much larger number, without risk of inbreeding depression or "hermie weed".

 

[turnip brain]

Have been away, great to come home and see these new replies! Thanks All.

Now about time to start germing!

 

[EastCoastHaze]

@ TURNIP: heres a link to breeding 101 from someone i respect to the fullest. im sure you will find some good info in this link from CaptCrip. I had a fellow member send me this link so im just sharing the knowledge.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=212637

E.C. Haze

 

[Sunfire]

Just to share my experience, whoever says use a paintbrush and paint the pollen on, doesn't grow frosty herb. It turns into a sticky mess and you tear calyx silia (hairs) off which nulls your pollen at ion attempt. Use a qtip and tap pollen over the buds, much easier and cleaner and effective.

 

[Betterhaff]

Just to share my experience, whoever says use a paintbrush and paint the pollen on, doesn't grow frosty herb. It turns into a sticky mess and you tear calyx silia (hairs) off which nulls your pollen at ion attempt. Use a qtip and tap pollen over the buds, much easier and cleaner and effective.

I use both. When I’m pollinating outdoors I use Qtips as it’s easier and I generally am using different pollens to make several crosses. I’m not so concerned about over spray since the plants are bigger and I’m only pollinating selective branches. A few extra seeds here and there are not that big of deal. The seeds I’m after are on the branches I pollinated.

Indoors I have small set-ups so I’m dealing with smaller plants. That’s when I use an artist’s brush, I have more control over what I’m pollinating. And yes the brushes do get gummied up, I have to rinse them in alcohol to get all the resins off. I do pull off some stigmas now and again but not enough to be a big deal, but I will re-pollinate over the course of a few days to a week to make sure I get a good set.

 

[MJPassion]

I prefer the Q tip tap, myself.
I've yet to get much overspray, indoors or out.

Last chuck was ID.
I had 27 small plants started on 12/12.
I only wanted pollen on 2 of those plants & I wanted them well pollenated.
I had my pollen in a baggy & I did the dip n tap over the two ladies I wanted to hit.
Mind you, all air movement was off. I was the only thing shifting the air around in the room during the procedure. Well, there might have been a couple flys in there too.

Anyway, I allowed the room to sit, more or less, stagnant for about 15-20 minutes. Then I went in and sprayed all the plants with RO water.

I happily got a couple hundred beans from those 2 lucky ladies & only 6 beans from the remaining 25 plants.

 

[SKUNK420]

I plan on pollinating some plants and flowering them under 100w T-5.
Question is does the amount of light/wattage matter when producing seeds?

 

[Sunfire]

It's a question of ultimate energy. Yes more energy being given to the plants will allow them to mature more seeds more quickly.