any kiss users have exp. with veg+bloom

[PetFlora]

There was a time when I hoped v + b would make up for less than quality lighting. It won't!

BUT, when combined with quality lighting, and reasonable RH/temps, it is magical

PLUS, I don't go higher than ~800-1000 ppms for only first week after bud set, then back <800s, on the way down to flush. Meaning?

It's extremely cost effective as well

 

[rives]

i would use maxi for veg and mothers tho until transplant into flowering media

I'm curious why you think this, Frank. I've been using V+B in my mom cabinet @ EC 1.2 with good success for a long time now - why would you use maxi over V+B for this?

PF - those ppm figures are at .5?

 

[bskl76]

Why bother?

Why bother?

Why bother?

Nice rives, so u can maintain high ec during late flower without extra nitrogen. U may get denser flowers, less cost wid maxi after week 3? Same ease of use wid 1 part & save some cheese. Just a thougt

 

[jayjayfrank]

its not about maintaining high EC during late flower

i only say GH Maxi because its EVERYWHERE and i get my V+B shipped so sometimes i get low or might run out and Maxi is cheap and just a stop gap.

you can end up with a life time of maxi for how cheap it is before a grower might decide to try other things at which point talking them into some DIRTY just for flower and let them keep using maxi on moms just for $$$ sake

i got a whole box of GH stuff thats been sitting a year, some of its probably gone bad...

 

[bskl76]

Yes JJ, it's not about maintaining high ec in late flower.

So u can maintan any level of ec widout dealing with the xtra nitrogen v-b has in mid to late flower. Thought maybe u could tweak vb feed schedule a little

 

[bskl76]

Hey JJ, I've read the whole thread. When using vb, ur suppose to start dropping ec after week 3 or u will get foxtailin because of higher nitrogen it has as oppose to most other nutes. I know the flowering plants need nitrogen but certain (ammonical) nitrogen is not good in late flower. I believe Vb has more ammonical than maxi. So I was curious if u replaced vb after week3 with maxi & continued with ur feed schedule what the outcome or ur opinions on tht would be? I have not used vb but always checking out nutes. Only reason mentioned maxi is because it's a 1part kiss nute.

Imo their is no 1part nute tht fits every situation.

 

[bskl76]

Vb nitrogen

Vb nitrogen

Not only does it have more nitrogen than maxipad but I believe 2x more ammonical nitrogen. Thts why u have to start dropping ec after 3rd week. Tht ammonical nitrogen stays in the plant a lot longer than nitrate. I know the vb has extra fulvic, aminos, silica but just wanted ur opinions on what I'm sayin. Thanks

 

[dansbuds]

Hey JJ, I've read the whole thread. When using vb, ur suppose to start dropping ec after week 3 or u will get foxtailin because of higher nitrogen it has as oppose to most other nutes. I know the flowering plants need nitrogen but certain (ammonical) nitrogen is not good in late flower. I believe Vb has more ammonical than maxi. So I was curious if u replaced vb after week3 with maxi & continued with ur feed schedule what the outcome or ur opinions on tht would be? I have not used vb but always checking out nutes. Only reason mentioned maxi is because it's a 1part kiss nute.

Imo their is no 1part nute tht fits every situation.

i agree , there is to much nitrogen in the V&B to run it high after the 3rd week .& have had the foxtailing because of it .
I love the V&B for clones & veg !!! can't ask for a more simple or complete formula for veg . but i don't like dropping the feed that much after the 3rd week in flower or so with longer running strains . most of mine go 70 days or more to finish to my liking . plus i really like what canna does for my girls in flower , the cannazyme & PK13/14 is a nice combo to build buds . but thats my opinion on it .

 

[PetFlora]

I have seen 2 different EC to ppm conversions

I go by 1 EC=500ppm

Measuring PPM/EC/TDS
TDS is the measuring of the amount of salts in a solution. For alot of applications the amount of salt is indicitive of the levels of other stuff in a solution. TDS/PPM meters sold for gardening and aquariums figure the amount of salt in Parts Per Million by measuring the Electrical Conductivity of the solution under test. So a PPM/TDS meter is a EC meter that converts the EC value into PPM values. There are alot of descriptions online about why and how to measure PPM/TDS or EC so google for them if you want alot more details.

EC is a measure of Electrical Conductivity from two probes 1cm apart. 1 EC is = 1 microsiemens, to convert from EC to siemens multiply by 1E-6. EC can be converted to PPM by multiplying by 500. PPM can be converted to EC by dividing by 500. To convert from siemens to Ohms is s=1/ohms, you can also go the other way and do ohm=1/s for siemens to ohms. Siemens is also known as Mhos, which comes from ohm written backward.
The number 500 used to convert between PPM and EC is called the Conversion Factor. Different salts will have different conversion factors because some conduct better or worse than others. NaCl's is 500, this seems to be the most common standard used, and is what was used for the calibration solutions.
If EC/PPM is just measuring the Conductance (or resistance) then why not use a volt/ohm meter directly?? Because they pass DC current thru the probes and you cannot measure conductivity of salts with DC current because it will rip the molecules apart, and since the molecules are what conducts the electricity you get a constantly changing reading that is useless. Overcome this by using an AC signal. If the frequency is high enough (>1khz it seems) the molecules dont have time to move apart before they are pulled in the opposite direction. Sort of like how high DC current will throw a person off of it, where as AC forces them to hold on and get shocked to death or something.

I'm curious why you think this, Frank. I've been using V+B in my mom cabinet @ EC 1.2 with good success for a long time now - why would you use maxi over V+B for this?

PF - those ppm figures are at .5?

 

[jayjayfrank]

ill say this, what ever magic salt is in V+B it shows the most between week 3-7, the plants just look healthy compared to the GH flora stuff, mind you my closet isnt paradise...

i run upto 1.4EC in week 3 then back down to 1.2EC in week 4 at which point stretch usually stops(on 65 day strain) and then ramp up a bloom booster and ramp down the v+b while maintaing a 1.0-1.2 EC and then slowly take that down to 0.2-0.4EC till harvest

my tounge gets numb just thinking about 2.5EC

 

[Caravaggio]

V+B does NOT recommend The Dirty for Veg and that came directly from the owner Chris.

Food for thought.

 

[PetFlora]

Rives pictures speak for themselves. V+B is potent even at 1 EC/500ppm, which is ~ where I go after 4th week of bud set. Keep in mind I am growing Sat dom in my Extreme High Performance Rez, so ~ 80 days in flower.

Here's mine as of yesterday

View attachment 255144 View attachment 255145 View attachment 255146

Not only does it have more nitrogen than maxipad but I believe 2x more ammonical nitrogen. Thts why u have to start dropping ec after 3rd week. Tht ammonical nitrogen stays in the plant a lot longer than nitrate. I know the vb has extra fulvic, aminos, silica but just wanted ur opinions on what I'm sayin. Thanks

 

[bskl76]

Thanks Dansbuds

Thanks Dansbuds

Thanx dan for givin every1 info on vb feed schedule after week3! I read evry page of this thread & it totally made sense to me when u got foxtailing cause u weren't dropping ec after week 3 cause higher nitro ratio & ammonium nitro than other nutes. On top of tht u had some sativa dom strains & in my experience r more sensitive to ammonical nitrogen in mid/late flower. Thts why I was wondering if any1 has switched to any other nutes after week3? I have used h&g in past & roots excel has been in the supplement cabinet since it came out but new gold bottle is not what it use to be.

The main reason hrvb caught my eye was because of the "xtra supplements". Fulvic, L aminos & silica, which I use. Reading early in the thread nute analysis of the vb didn't meet some of the min. in macro nutrients. No further info on % of supplements in vb except I believe some1 mentioned 30ppm silica & more could be added. Whenever I use silica I immediately notice it on plants leaves. Can some1 who used hrvb tell me after using nute did they notice the silica immediately on the plants or did it take awhile?? R the leaves hard to pull off? I'm just tryin to gauge how much xtra supplements r in vb to justify xtra cost for me.

Hey JJ, the magic stuff in veg bloom must be the silica if ur plants r not in ideal conditions. I'm sure ur aware plants in hotter environment u must feed less as oppose to same strain in perfect conditions.

Thanks every1 on ur feedback!

 

[bskl76]

Rives pic speak for themselves but every1 wants more!

Rives pic speak for themselves but every1 wants more!

Rives pictures speak for themselves. V+B is potent even at 1 EC/500ppm, which is ~ where I go after 4th week of bud set. Keep in mind I am growing Sat dom in my Extreme High Performance Rez, so ~ 80 days in flower.

Here's mine as of yesterday

View attachment 255144 View attachment 255145 View attachment 255146

Yes petflora, rives pics r beautiful & I never said they weren't. IMO, most of us r striving for better, thts why most r on this website!

Petflora, ur a master hydro technician & ur attention 2 detail is awesome! Those r beautiful girls & I knew they were sativa dom. Soon as I seen them. Thts why I suggest, if I may using maxipad/other nute with lower nitro ratio & less ammonical nitro % after week 3. It's been my experience sativa dom r more sensitive to nitrogen & especially ammonical nitrogen in mid/late flower. U will get more leaf if the levels r high in mid/late flower. I know u like to tinker, please consider it.

 

[bskl76]

Vb potency

Vb potency

Hey petflora, fwiw did read on there website all nutes were made with the highest quality pharmaceutical grade/ food/ technical grade ingredients. Maybe tht will explain its potency.

 

[rives]

Hey bsk - you've obviously got some good information & an interesting perspective, but at least for me, your posts being written in "texting english" are hard to follow. I find myself skipping through them, which is a shame because you make good points. Just something to consider.

 

[PetFlora]

Now you know why I swear by them, and why 3.0 EC or 1500 ppms is pushing it. Hell, I get just the right amount of leaf tip burn at ~800. I leave it there until buds set then 2 bumps to ~ 1100 for one week, then begin backing down

Hey petflora, fwiw did read on there website all nutes were made with the highest quality pharmaceutical grade/ food/ technical grade ingredients. Maybe tht will explain its potency.

 

[PetFlora]

That's a pretty hot tip. Thanks.

Would the high N have anything to do with late to the party calyxes, or is that just another sat characteristic?

Now, what the hell is maxipad... got a link?

Yes petflora, rives pics r beautiful & I never said they weren't. IMO, most of us r striving for better, thts why most r on this website!

Petflora, ur a master hydro technician & ur attention 2 detail is awesome! Those r beautiful girls & I knew they were sativa dom. Soon as I seen them. Thts why I suggest, if I may using maxipad/other nute with lower nitro ratio & less ammonical nitro % after week 3. It's been my experience sativa dom r more sensitive to nitrogen & especially ammonical nitrogen in mid/late flower. U will get more leaf if the levels r high in mid/late flower. I know u like to tinker, please consider it.

 

[dansbuds]

lol Maxipad = maxibloom

 

[organiclover]

I have been feeding full strength later than normal as i was under feeding during veg because of a broken EC meter. I did not experience any abnormal foxtails. V+B feed chart does not rec walking down the food until the last 3 weeks. It has been my experience that my 10 week cash cropper feeds heaviest weeks 3-7 then I walk it down from there. I would say this has not been an issue for me during my first two runs. Growing in peat I feed, feed, and then flush (0.8EC) then repeat.