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George Zimmerman vs. DMX in a boxing match

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
OK, I do think you were referring too teens doing dumb teenager stuff,you did it again in this post. My point was being a teenager is irrelevant he's responsible for his actions despite whatever the rest of the world is doing or think is hip.So I think we actually agree here,im going to stop talking about what he did in the past.
The knockout game is a great example of how self defense is warranted guns or no guns. Although treyvon was not looking for a fight he did turn around to confront Zimmerman and punched him first.This is my understanding of the event taken from another forum. I think the distance he walked to his dads apartment before turning is debatable but a moot point.
View Image



Correct me if im wrong ,but isn't that the job of neighborhood watch ,to look out for suspicious people ? and from the looks of things on the map they really were not that close to each other before the physical altercation he could of made it inside.




Well he shouldn't have turned around to go toward Zimmerman too.The law states it covers people who have a legal right to be there,i'm not sure if visiting is a legal right to be on the property but ill go with it for now.Then Zimmerman ,I have to question how the watch program works, like if he had a designated time to patrol or they just report stuff when they see it,because they live around there. If he did have the right to be there then they are both covered.

It would seem they both were covered,the error would be turning around to assault someone instead of going inside.





This is not entirely accurate. See my previous comment and map.



Your right they have no authority so the only thing they can do is profile. Maybe your beef is with neighborhood watch.There is going to be someone else doing that job.

The neighborhood watch program has a web site with their guidelines posted right on it

http://www.nnwi.org/

Here is an description from their homepage

National Neighborhood Watch Institute (NNWI) is the premier national supplier of Neighborhood Watch materials. NNWI was the provider of the Sanford Florida sign seen so prominently in recent news coverage.

Our Participants Handbook states, "Always remember that your responsibility is to report crime. Do not take any risks to prevent a crime or try to make an arrest. The responsibility for apprehending criminals belongs to the police/sheriff."

Neighborhood Watch participants act as additional eyes and ears for law enforcement.
They do not take the law into their own hands.
We Look Out For Each Other is our motto.

Click here to view or purchase our 32 page Participants Handbook.

I have no beef with neighborhood watch, my beef is with people who think belonging to such a program elevates them to a level of authority over others.

As for the issue of age, yes I'm saying teens do dumb teenager stuff but I never said or implied that excused him from wrong doing. What I said and implied was that using that Martin did dumb teenager stuff against him posthumously in court was wrong as it had nothing to do with what happened with him that night. It was also wrong because since it came up after he was dead he never had a chance to even defend himself against the inferences made from that dumb teenager stuff. That night though he was doing nothing wrong until he was confronted by Zimmerman.

As for the actual fight all we have to go on is Zimmerman's account. When the fight occurred the phone became disconnected so the girl on the phone didn't hear the fight. She did apparently hear what happened just moments before the fight and from that testimony it sounded like George made the first physical contact. All the other witnesses were uncertain of who the aggressor was and who the victim was and none of them witnessed the onset of the fight each of them only saw from the point they were on the ground or after Martin had already been shot, Martin of course is dead and therefore can't give his version. I'm not inclined to just happily accept the account of the person who might be going to prison for life if it happened differently because his account is likely going to be designed to avoid prison, especially since there was nobody able to conclusively dispute his account.

As for the map there is no testimony I can find from Jeantel (Dee Dee) Rachel that conclusively puts Martin at the house he was staying at. The closest I could find was an interview conducted by the police where she indicates Martin tried to run from Zimmerman and at one point said he claimed to have lost him but then soon after said that Zimmerman was coming closer to him. There is no testimony that supports the path indicated by the map where it shows Martin had gotten so far from Zimmerman and then went back. Given the position you've been taking it's my opinion you got this from a site that was supportive of Zimmerman and someone created this map to paint a picture more favorable to Zimmerman. This also matches what was going on in public discussion of this case. It wasn't until long after the events of that night that people began claiming Martin made it to the house he was staying at and then circled back. If this was a known fact revealed there would have been questions to Jeantel as to if she knew why Martin decided to go back and confront Zimmerman after having escaped him. Since she was on the phone with him until the fight happened. So I'm not clear how you can challenge the accuracy of my account of reported testimony when there is no testimony that supports your account.

As for authority and rights and what neighborhood watch people can do it's not profile. In fact I bet if I bought their 32 page handbook I'd find information in it warning against profiling people, that's the job of people trained to do it and even then it's generally frowned upon. All a neighborhood watch volunteer has the authority to do is watch and report. I doubt there will be someone else doing the job since it's not a job but a volunteer gig. Also Zimmerman was a self appointed neighborhood watch captain which means nobody else was doing it because "captains" are general appointed by whomever organizes the neighborhood watch for a given neighborhood. So for Zimmerman to be a self appointed captain means there was no neighborhood watch there until Zimmerman decided there should be and therefore now that he no longer lives there people probably continued to not get involved just like before.
 

OrganicBuds

Active member
Veteran
Really, an argument about Trayvon and Zimmerman? Bottom line, Zimmerman has been proven innocent in a court of law. Case closed.
 
B

BredForMeds

George Zimmerman should be hunted down and tortured for months.. hes a disgrace to this country.. and a even bigger loser kuz of his tiny dick syndrome.. I need to protect my wife.. that I beat the shit out of and smash her phone so she cant call 911. haha hes just a loser that got picked on.. and now thinks hes a hero...

George Zimmerman should have stayed in his car until the police arrived.. hes not a cop.. and that's not his job.. then he got his lil bitch ass beat up . and pulled a gun kuz hes a PUSSY,, and killed this kid..

and yes im white.. and not racist one bit.. I just hate PEOPLE not COLORS.

people are ignorant.. stupid.. uninformed.. under educated.. and since the 80s kids have been spoiled little bitches.. with no resposibilites.. no respect for anyone.. not even themselves.. and then ontop of all this.. the school system fails.. the economy is falling .. and the government has more power then ever?... why do u think the school budgets are fucked.. why do you think we go to war ? for drugs and oil.. in 1 way or another.. and WAR MAKES MONEY.. and lots of it. for the select 1 %..

the money we spend fightin the war on drugs.. could be spent more on education. .and the more educated the kids are the less likely to use drugs.. instead of fighting for a middle class for EVERYONE.. THE GOVERNMENT IS HELPING THE RICH GET RICHER AND POOR STAY POOR.. and the MiddleCLASS is GONE.

BUT YOU GET WAT YOU VOTE FOR. people need to get up.. and stand up for what they believe in. and not just 1 person.. ALL OF US... people need to realize that the GOVERNMENT GAINS POWER .. ONLY BECAUSE WE ALLOW THEM TO.

we need to UNITE as a COUNTRY.. that was supposed to be the best country in the WORLD.. which now.. it is not even fucking close..

just remember.. when u see immigrants and foreigners.. or blacks or whites.. that WE ALL CAME HERE FROM SOMEWERE ELSE.. that's what made this country the BEST. fuck racisism that's what the gov wants.. fuck following everythin the government has to say.. fuck the news channels.. if u want real news .. don't get your news from MAINSTREAM MEDIA.. that's GOVERNMENT MEDIA.. censored.. and full of lies and bullshit..

sorry for the rant..

but this LOSER Zimmerman . should be 6 feet under.. not making money off killing any younger teenager.. wether black or white.. they should allow the parents to chose what happens.. or let them be the ones to kill him themselves.. that's justice..

and anyone who thinks Zimmerman was right for what he did.. let that shit happen to your kid.. and then tell me ..

kuz that could have been avoided if this country didn't go around telling everyone we are in such danger.. and we need to tell on our neighbors.. and we need to be wanabe cops of our neighborhoods..

he was taking the law into his own hands.. this kid trayvon shouldn't have been killed for walking around on a shitty day.. I think Zimmerman would have killed any BLACK MAN OR KID in the area during the time he was out there hes a LOSER and anyone who thinks DIFFERENTLY is RACIST.
 

OrganicBuds

Active member
Veteran
:beat-dead

Bred4meds - I just can't take your post seriously. If you want to make an educated post, try to spell a little better. Also, try to use facts instead of speculations.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Really, an argument about Trayvon and Zimmerman? Bottom line, Zimmerman has been proven innocent in a court of law. Case closed.

No he was not proven innocent he just wasn't proven guilty. One can still be guilty as sin and not be convicted in court if the state fails to present a compelling case as happened in this case.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
:beat-dead

Bred4meds - I just can't take your post seriously. If you want to make an educated post, try to spell a little better. Also, try to use facts instead of speculations.

You would do well to follow your own advice since saying Zimmerman was proven innocent is just your opinion and not an actual fact.
 

OrganicBuds

Active member
Veteran
No he was not proven innocent he just wasn't proven guilty. One can still be guilty as sin and not be convicted in court if the state fails to present a compelling case as happened in this case.

Really? He wasn't found innocent? I thought you followed this case, you talk like you know everything about it?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/u...rdict-trayvon-martin.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
He was found innocent of 2nd degree murder
Acquitted of manslaughter

You would do well to follow your own advice since saying Zimmerman was proven innocent is just your opinion and not an actual fact.

No, it's a fact. He was found innocent by a jury of his peers in a court of law.


The same court of law that locks up people on this forum?

Your point?

Yes, the same court of law that locks up people on this forum. It's also called the American judicial system and the law of the land.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
George Zimmerman should be hunted down and tortured for months.. hes a disgrace to this country.. and a even bigger loser kuz of his tiny dick syndrome.. I need to protect my wife.. that I beat the shit out of and smash her phone so she cant call 911. haha hes just a loser that got picked on.. and now thinks hes a hero...

George Zimmerman should have stayed in his car until the police arrived.. hes not a cop.. and that's not his job.. then he got his lil bitch ass beat up . and pulled a gun kuz hes a PUSSY,, and killed this kid..

and yes im white.. and not racist one bit.. I just hate PEOPLE not COLORS.

people are ignorant.. stupid.. uninformed.. under educated.. and since the 80s kids have been spoiled little bitches.. with no resposibilites.. no respect for anyone.. not even themselves.. and then ontop of all this.. the school system fails.. the economy is falling .. and the government has more power then ever?... why do u think the school budgets are fucked.. why do you think we go to war ? for drugs and oil.. in 1 way or another.. and WAR MAKES MONEY.. and lots of it. for the select 1 %..

the money we spend fightin the war on drugs.. could be spent more on education. .and the more educated the kids are the less likely to use drugs.. instead of fighting for a middle class for EVERYONE.. THE GOVERNMENT IS HELPING THE RICH GET RICHER AND POOR STAY POOR.. and the MiddleCLASS is GONE.

BUT YOU GET WAT YOU VOTE FOR. people need to get up.. and stand up for what they believe in. and not just 1 person.. ALL OF US... people need to realize that the GOVERNMENT GAINS POWER .. ONLY BECAUSE WE ALLOW THEM TO.

we need to UNITE as a COUNTRY.. that was supposed to be the best country in the WORLD.. which now.. it is not even fucking close..

just remember.. when u see immigrants and foreigners.. or blacks or whites.. that WE ALL CAME HERE FROM SOMEWERE ELSE.. that's what made this country the BEST. fuck racisism that's what the gov wants.. fuck following everythin the government has to say.. fuck the news channels.. if u want real news .. don't get your news from MAINSTREAM MEDIA.. that's GOVERNMENT MEDIA.. censored.. and full of lies and bullshit..

sorry for the rant..

but this LOSER Zimmerman . should be 6 feet under.. not making money off killing any younger teenager.. wether black or white.. they should allow the parents to chose what happens.. or let them be the ones to kill him themselves.. that's justice..

and anyone who thinks Zimmerman was right for what he did.. let that shit happen to your kid.. and then tell me ..

kuz that could have been avoided if this country didn't go around telling everyone we are in such danger.. and we need to tell on our neighbors.. and we need to be wanabe cops of our neighborhoods..

he was taking the law into his own hands.. this kid trayvon shouldn't have been killed for walking around on a shitty day.. I think Zimmerman would have killed any BLACK MAN OR KID in the area during the time he was out there hes a LOSER and anyone who thinks DIFFERENTLY is RACIST.

I agree with the sentiment but hunting him down and torturing him is no better then what he did to Treyvon. Unfortunately the state allowed itself to be bullied into over reaching when they charged him. Had the charge been more reasonable such as reckless endangerment or something like that rather then 2nd degree murder he likely would have been found guilty since those charges are less difficult to prove. Now he has been acquitted and can't be tried again due to laws against double jeopardy. All we can hope for now is for karma to balance the scales. Which it likely will and appears to be happening already given the trouble he's had since he was acquitted.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Really? He wasn't found innocent? I thought you followed this case, you talk like you know everything about it?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/u...rdict-trayvon-martin.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
He was found innocent of 2nd degree murder
Acquitted of manslaughter



No, it's a fact. He was found innocent by a jury of his peers in a court of law.




Yes, the same court of law that locks up people on this forum. It's also called the American judicial system and the law of the land.

No he was not found innocent, he was not found guilty. Which while seeming the same is not the same as being found innocent. Had they proven that someone else killed Treyvon then you could say he was found innocent.
 

OrganicBuds

Active member
Veteran
Strait up bro, your wrong. Google it. Have a nice day.

Yes Zimmerman killed T M
Yes he was innocent of second degree murder
Yes he was acquitted of manslaughter.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Strait up bro, your wrong. Google it. Have a nice day.

Straight up bro, you need to relax and allow others to freely express their opinions just like you are expressing yours rather then trying to prolong the argument by trying to force your opinion on others.

Amazingly the link you post as proof of your assertion that he was found innocent never once says he was found innocent. Unlike you they seem to realize that being found not guilty is different then being found innocent and as such they only say he was not found guilty. Not once in your proof do they say he was found innocent. Maybe a remedial course in reading comprehension would be something worthwhile for you to pursue?
 

stihgnobevoli

Active member
Veteran
you guys are arguing semantics, or rather you're arguing semantics OrganicBuds.

he was found not guilty, he was not found innocent. anyone with half a brain can tell he stalked and shot trayvon even after being told to back off. he shot trayvon martin and trayvon martin died. those are FACTS!

he was acquitted aka the jury didn't find him responsible. for trayvons death. that's just technical jargon bullshit. doesn't change the facts of the matter which are as HE even admitted himself. he followed the kid, shit got fuzzy, and then he shot the kid and the kid died. the end.
 

bentom187

Active member
Veteran
As for the map there is no testimony I can find from Jeantel (Dee Dee) Rachel that conclusively puts Martin at the house he was staying at. The closest I could find was an interview conducted by the police where she indicates Martin tried to run from Zimmerman and at one point said he claimed to have lost him but then soon after said that Zimmerman was coming closer to him. There is no testimony that supports the path indicated by the map where it shows Martin had gotten so far from Zimmerman and then went back. Given the position you've been taking it's my opinion you got this from a site that was supportive of Zimmerman and someone created this map to paint a picture more favorable to Zimmerman. This also matches what was going on in public discussion of this case. It wasn't until long after the events of that night that people began claiming Martin made it to the house he was staying at and then circled back. If this was a known fact revealed there would have been questions to Jeantel as to if she knew why Martin decided to go back and confront Zimmerman after having escaped him. Since she was on the phone with him until the fight happened. So I'm not clear how you can challenge the accuracy of my account of reported testimony when there is no testimony that supports your account.

As for authority and rights and what neighborhood watch people can do it's not profile. In fact I bet if I bought their 32 page handbook I'd find information in it warning against profiling people, that's the job of people trained to do it and even then it's generally frowned upon. All a neighborhood watch volunteer has the authority to do is watch and report. I doubt there will be someone else doing the job since it's not a job but a volunteer gig. Also Zimmerman was a self appointed neighborhood watch captain which means nobody else was doing it because "captains" are general appointed by whomever organizes the neighborhood watch for a given neighborhood. So for Zimmerman to be a self appointed captain means there was no neighborhood watch there until Zimmerman decided there should be and therefore now that he no longer lives there people probably continued to not get involved just like before.

bentom187
I think the distance he walked to his dads apartment before turning is debatable but a moot point.


This map I believe was constructed from zimmermans video when he did the walk through with the police.

George Zimmerman Walks Through Trayvon Martin Killing In Gated
[YOUTUBEIF]X_2NeMrGCvg[/YOUTUBEIF]

The site I got it from was more concerned with the political fall out and the violence caused by race baiting by the media. They didn't view it in favor of one or the other that's why I think zimmermans account was acceptable, also because it would be the account of events used in court.

For reference this is the testimony of Rachel jenteal I watched. I cant link them all. I also take them to be true.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN TRIAL WITNESS RACHEL GEANTEL
[YOUTUBEIF]AR1VabQYLKQ[/YOUTUBEIF]

If what he says is true he did what the handbook told him to do and requested a officer.


I see no difference if the police were to do it though they don't have any authority to kill but they do it anyway with the catch all defense of "officer safety". I have seen many times online, police write a policy regarding something and make it their priority to ignore it,for example quotas, also recording abuse in public www.copblock.org it happens all the time now that they are militarized.

Now since their are no other accounts of events that could confirm what happened we can only go with what is presented by the witnesses.I think excluding one as true over the other is not going to reveal the truth which is more important than race or at least it should be but there are a lot of politicians who sensationalize these events in order to prosper from them, they offer social political revolution, regardless of the fact its not justice and cant change anything that's why they were dragging stand your ground laws through the mud in the news, without caring if the defense was even using that or not. They used self defense as a defense.

http://www.gzlegalcase.com/
We believe those who look at the facts of the case without prejudice will see that it is a clear case of self-defense
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
This map I believe was constructed from zimmermans video when he did the walk through with the police.

George Zimmerman Walks Through Trayvon Martin Killing In Gated
[YOUTUBEIF]X_2NeMrGCvg[/YOUTUBEIF]

The site I got it from was more concerned with the political fall out and the violence caused by race baiting by the media. They didn't view it in favor of one or the other that's why I think zimmermans account was acceptable, also because it would be the account of events used in court.

For reference this is the testimony of Rachel jenteal I watched. I cant link them all. I also take them to be true.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN TRIAL WITNESS RACHEL GEANTEL
[YOUTUBEIF]AR1VabQYLKQ[/YOUTUBEIF]

If what he says is true he did what the handbook told him to do and requested a officer.


I see no difference if the police were to do it though they don't have any authority to kill but they do it anyway with the catch all defense of "officer safety". I have seen many times online, police write a policy regarding something and make it their priority to ignore it,for example quotas, also recording abuse in public www.copblock.org it happens all the time now that they are militarized.

Now since their are no other accounts of events that could confirm what happened we can only go with what is presented by the witnesses.I think excluding one as true over the other is not going to reveal the truth which is more important than race or at least it should be but there are a lot of politicians who sensationalize these events in order to prosper from them, they offer social political revolution, regardless of the fact its not justice and cant change anything that's why they were dragging stand your ground laws through the mud in the news, without caring if the defense was even using that or not. They used self defense as a defense.

Why do you keep trying to insert race into it? I never said it was a matter of race nor do I believe it was a matter of race. I think Zimmerman was an overzealous homeowner and the profiling was more to do with Martin's age then his race based on the fact that previous break-ins in the community were connected to teenagers.

If Zimmerman was following the neighborhood watch rules he would never have gotten out of the vehicle and followed. The rules clearly say to call the police and then let them handle it from there. In reality though the Neighborhood Watch Captain thing is a red herring as Zimmerman was not operating as a neighborhood watch captain at that moment, he was returning home from running errands at a local store. It's my feeling the whole "Neighborhood Watch Captain" thing was something thrown out there to suggest Zimmerman was performing his duty at the time and had some semblance of authority. To be honest he's a piss poor neighborhood watch captain. As a neighborhood watch captain he should know the neighborhood and the street addresses like the back of his hand. I find it laughable that as a neighborhood watch captain he had to walk to the street to figure out the address to tell police to come to. Also a good neighborhood watch captain should know who is living or staying in their community so as to not think someone who has a right to be there is trespassing.

As for the map, if in fact it is based off of George's walk thru (which I've seen the video of, then that map is definitely bogus since at the point Martin allegedly made it to where he was staying and then circled back, Zimmerman, by his own testimony had lost sight of Martin. So he couldn't possibly have known how far Martin had travelled or where he traveled to.

As for the police, yes they do in fact have the authority to kill or use deadly force. IF they had no authority to kill what would be the point in allowing them to carry a gun?

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Deadly+Force

In police jargon, deadly force is also referred to as shoot to kill. The Supreme Court has ruled that, depending on the circumstances, if an offender resists arrest, police officers may use as much force as is reasonably required to overcome the resistance. Whether the force is reasonable is determined by the judgment of a reasonable officer at the scene, rather than by hindsight. Because police officers can find themselves in dangerous or rapidly changing situations where split second decisions are necessary, the judgment of someone at the scene is vital when looking back at the actions of a police officer.

As for Jeantel's testimony if you take it as true then I take it you also take it as true when she says she couldn't identify anything of the neighborhood in the picture and that all she had to go on was Martin saying he was near the back of the house and not actually at the back of the house? Unfortunately since that was said by Martin and Martin is dead and Jeantel didn't even know which house was the one Martin was staying at, we actually have no way of knowing just how near, near is and therefore no way of knowing exactly how far Treyvon had traveled. Saying you are near something is relative. If I had walked say a distance of a mile to the store and was returning home and was within 100 yards of my home, I might say to someone on the phone that I am near my house and yet I'd still be the length of a football field away.
 

bentom187

Active member
Veteran
Why do you keep trying to insert race into it? I never said it was a matter of race nor do I believe it was a matter of race. I think Zimmerman was an overzealous homeowner and the profiling was more to do with Martin's age then his race based on the fact that previous break-ins in the community were connected to teenagers.

If Zimmerman was following the neighborhood watch rules he would never have gotten out of the vehicle and followed. The rules clearly say to call the police and then let them handle it from there. In reality though the Neighborhood Watch Captain thing is a red herring as Zimmerman was not operating as a neighborhood watch captain at that moment, he was returning home from running errands at a local store. It's my feeling the whole "Neighborhood Watch Captain" thing was something thrown out there to suggest Zimmerman was performing his duty at the time and had some semblance of authority. To be honest he's a piss poor neighborhood watch captain. As a neighborhood watch captain he should know the neighborhood and the street addresses like the back of his hand. I find it laughable that as a neighborhood watch captain he had to walk to the street to figure out the address to tell police to come to. Also a good neighborhood watch captain should know who is living or staying in their community so as to not think someone who has a right to be there is trespassing.

As for the map, if in fact it is based off of George's walk thru (which I've seen the video of, then that map is definitely bogus since at the point Martin allegedly made it to where he was staying and then circled back, Zimmerman, by his own testimony had lost sight of Martin. So he couldn't possibly have known how far Martin had travelled or where he traveled to.

As for the police, yes they do in fact have the authority to kill or use deadly force. IF they had no authority to kill what would be the point in allowing them to carry a gun?

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Deadly+Force



As for Jeantel's testimony if you take it as true then I take it you also take it as true when she says she couldn't identify anything of the neighborhood in the picture and that all she had to go on was Martin saying he was near the back of the house and not actually at the back of the house? Unfortunately since that was said by Martin and Martin is dead and Jeantel didn't even know which house was the one Martin was staying at, we actually have no way of knowing just how near, near is and therefore no way of knowing exactly how far Treyvon had traveled. Saying you are near something is relative. If I had walked say a distance of a mile to the store and was returning home and was within 100 yards of my home, I might say to someone on the phone that I am near my house and yet I'd still be the length of a football field away.

Your right i'll leave race out of it ,even though it could be argued its what is fueling a lot of outrage in the public.

I'm really confused on how someone is disliked and hated for profiling teenagers if there was reports of teens breaking in houses around there then his concern was completely justified.I also have the question what does a thief teenager look like in the dark compared to a innocent one ?

The distance is a moot point the dilemma is in turning to confront him stating "you have a problem ? well you have one now" and punching him. Thats what makes him guilty of assault and zimmermans self defense justified weather he was a homeowner there or a security guard self defense is always your right.
Following people isn't a crime, I could see any number of people doing the same thing out of concern for their neighbor.

The police are just people they were born like you and I. If I have no authority to kill anyone except in self defense , how could I enumerate that power to a government ? the answer is you cant ,and the point of them being armed is because extortion is a dangerous profession. Ill stop there because its a way longer post than what's appropriate for the subject we were discussing.
 

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