I've got some spots/burning on upper leaves

[Ez Rider]

I'm 22days into flower, and my plants suddenly developed these burns/spots. When I watered last night, I'm sure this wasn't there. Here's some pics of upper leaves I culled:

And heres a bottom leaf for comparison:

They'd been getting a little pale on top, but I figured it was from being too close (~12") from the 1K's. I run water-cooled lights, and sometimes forget to raise them enough as the plants grow. I noticed the spots today when the lights came on. That's when I realized I was only 12" from the light. I've raised the light to 2' above.

FWIW: I'm running h&g coco's line, ~1.6ec, ~5.8ph. I use ro water, and add .7g/gal epsoms for Mg.

I'm thinking this is just from condensation (from watering last) night, coupled with close lights. However, second opinions would be appreciated.

 

[vostok]

if in Doubt flush with 3 times the volume of the pot, with Ph neutral, air temperate water, allow to recover overnight or 1x day in dim light no nutes for 2 weeks or until you see an active recovery
Note the red stems ..keep an eye on your night time temps maintain 75f/25c as close as you can

 

[Ez Rider]

if in Doubt flush with 3 times the volume of the pot, with Ph neutral, air temperate water, allow to recover overnight or 1x day in dim light no nutes for 2 weeks or until you see an active recovery
Note the red stems ..keep an eye on your night time temps maintain 75f/25c as close as you can

I don't think they need a flush, and flushing coco with plain water in mid grow isn't the best plan. It's messes with the cation bank.

My lights out temp are usually ~67F, lights on ~77F. What's the problem? I'm growing two strains, and only the more densely foliaged one is having the problem I posted on.Both do have purple leaf stems though.

Unfortunately, I'm in a tent, and the lights cant go any higher. 18" over the taller strain, and now 24" with the one I posted(after raising). They're not going to stretch any more(day 22), so hopefully I'll get by.

Of the taller plants, the ones that sit directly under the bulb are noticeably paler, but growing well. Of the plants I posted on, it was also the ones closest to the bulb that were mainly affected. I think alot of it is from nighttime transpiration building up on dense foliage.

 

[Midnight Tokar]

From the pics it looks like not enough P and too much N.

 

[Ez Rider]

From the pics it looks like not enough P and too much N.

How would I remedy? I've seen some people say h&g has too much N for flower, but nobody saying it lacks in P. Lockout maybe?

 

[MrGoodBudz]

I grow everything in coco. Feed daily. Flush weekly in veg with RO and bi weekly in flower RO. Your pics look like the onset of buildup/lockout IMO

 

[Ez Rider]

I grow everything in coco. Feed daily. Flush weekly in veg with RO and bi weekly in flower RO. Your pics look like the onset of buildup/lockout IMO

I'm watering every 2 days on larger plants, every 3 days on smaller. I'm in 3 1/2gal pots, probably a little too big. Tall plants are are ~38" small are ~27". Ihave been feeding every time for the last 4 weeks or so. I'll have to look at runoff ec next watering.

When you say "flush" do you mean plain ph'ed(RO) water, or water with mild nutes and cal/mg? I had terrible results using plain(RO) ph'ed water in mid grow.

 

[MrGoodBudz]

I'm watering every 2 days on larger plants, every 3 days on smaller. I'm in 3 1/2gal pots, probably a little too big. Tall plants are are ~38" small are ~27". Ihave been feeding every time for the last 4 weeks or so. I'll have to look at runoff ec next watering.

When you say "flush" do you mean plain ph'ed(RO) water, or water with mild nutes and cal/mg? I had terrible results using plain(RO) ph'ed water in mid grow.

Your not applying nutes into the system often enough. Every 2 or 3 days is not enough. Coco drops off with the heavy metals fast like my hydro systems do. Ie magnesium iron ect. The method of thinking I use when feeding/mixing for my plants in coco is frequency rather than intensity. If your nutes are balanced you can and should wet through the coco every day. Also the idea is to not have your plants in pots larger than necessary to become mostly dry everyday. I grow in 3 gallon pots. 3-4ft plants fully mature. heavily topped/trained. 6 plants per light. I don't ph my RO water for the flush. The idea is the water is so pure that if your ph is already correct in the rootzone. The RO water will instantly become that ph the moment of contact with the medium. Ever notice it takes very very little ph up/down to ph straight Ro water?

 

[RetroGrow]

Have never used H&G nutes, so am not familiar with the formula. Having said that, I would never use RO water with coco. No calcium. Tap water has the calcium you need for coco. If that formula has calcium in it, you can disregard this comment, however, in my experience, tap water is always better with coco, not to mention it's free. To me, using RO water is an urban myth, except for flushing. I also prefer Maxibloom, K.I.S.S. method, over any coco nutes. Check out the K.I.S.S. thread. Other than that, your lower leaves look very dark green, suggesting over feeding, which might explain nute burn on the upper leaves, which are getting more light, hence more photosynthesis. Flushing can't hurt, as someone else suggested I would try it on one plant first and see if there's improvement. If so, continue flushing the rest.
For your next grow, you might want to consider Hempy buckets with coco. Hempy buckets outperform any kind of pot by a wide margin. 2 or 3 gallon Hempy buckets will produce huge plants, and watering/feeding daily to runoff has given me the best result, as the rez is re-oxygenated daily, and the roots love fresh oxygen.

 

[MrGoodBudz]

I don't understand how anyone can grow and maintain beneficials without purifying your water. I mean think about what that 200-400 ppm really is in there? Not to mention the harmful chloramines that dramatically stunt growth on all levels. My plants get calcium from my nutrient regiment. I don't need tap water for calcium.

 

[RetroGrow]

Simple. Let water stand for 24 hours and all chlorine dissipates. Chlorine does not harm plants. In fact they need it. RO water is the ultimate snake oil. I know an honest hydro store owner, and although he sells RO machines, even he admits freely that tap water is superior. Your statement about the chloramines that "dramatically stunt growth on all levels" is TOTAL BS. Also, your previous statement that he is not applying nutrients enough is more BS. It's obvious from the pictures that the plants are over fed. In addition, although I often use bennies, there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that they work in coco. In fact many hydro growers (coco is a hydro medium) add chlorine to their rez to keep it free from nasties, and they scoff at the idea of bennies. You need to do a lot more reading. The "advice" you are giving is bad. Chlorine is an essential nutrient for plants, hence it's inclusion in most nutrients.

 

[MrGoodBudz]

Simple. Let water stand for 24 hours and all chlorine dissipates. Chlorine does not harm plants. In fact they need it. RO water is the ultimate snake oil. I know an honest hydro store owner, and although he sells RO machines, even he admits freely that tap water is superior. Your statement about the chloramines that "dramatically stunt growth on all levels" is TOTAL BS. Also, your previous statement that he is not applying nutrients enough is more BS. It's obvious from the pictures that the plants are over fed. In addition, although I often use bennies, there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that they work in coco. In fact many hydro growers (coco is a hydro medium) add chlorine to their rez to keep it free from nasties, and they scoff at the idea of bennies. You need to do a lot more reading. The "advice" you are giving is bad. Chlorine is an essential nutrient for plants, hence it's inclusion in most nutrients.

Well damn dude. Didn't mean to offend you with my ignorance. I was talking about chloramines NOT chlorine. Chloramines do not disepate like chlorine. And are extremely harmful to your beneficials. And you must not have read my previous statement you are narrating my posts. First thing I said was "I grow everything in coco. Feed daily. Flush weekly in veg with RO and bi weekly in flower RO. Your pics look like the onset of buildup/lockout IMO" so yes. We were both right he is going in to strong on the mix. As I said before you. I also said "frequency not intensity" this is where a dialed nute regiment comes in.

Here's a shot of my veg at home

 

[MrGoodBudz]

More veg

 

[MrGoodBudz]

One of my flower rooms at home

 

[MrGoodBudz]

One of my flower rooms at work

 

[MrGoodBudz]

Some recently curing Ron burgundy from my personal grow

 

[Midnight Tokar]

Simple. Let water stand for 24 hours and all chlorine dissipates. Chlorine does not harm plants. In fact they need it. RO water is the ultimate snake oil. I know an honest hydro store owner, and although he sells RO machines, even he admits freely that tap water is superior. Your statement about the chloramines that "dramatically stunt growth on all levels" is TOTAL BS. Also, your previous statement that he is not applying nutrients enough is more BS. It's obvious from the pictures that the plants are over fed. In addition, although I often use bennies, there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that they work in coco. In fact many hydro growers (coco is a hydro medium) add chlorine to their rez to keep it free from nasties, and they scoff at the idea of bennies. You need to do a lot more reading. The "advice" you are giving is bad. Chlorine is an essential nutrient for plants, hence it's inclusion in most nutrients.

RO water may or may not be "snake oil" it depends on why you use it. My tap water is very hard, lots of calcium and minerals. The only way I can use it is to dilute it with RO occasionally to get some minerals from it (I don't really need them in my organic mix though) RO water costs me 25 cents a gallon at the grocery store. I have everything the plants need in my mix and know what I'm getting from the RO water (nothing).

I'm not really worried about the PH of my tap with my organic soil. The chloramine/chlorine also doesn't worry me. Organic "material" neutralizes the chlorine, simply put a tablespoon of molasses in a bucket of your water and aerate it.

 

[Ez Rider]

My lights aren't on yet, so I don't know if they're looking worse, better, or the same. When the lights come on, I'll run some low ec feed through a few and see what the runoff looks like. I'm thinking I'll add the epsoms, and 3ml a+b, nothing else, probably around 300ppm input. I was measuring runoff regularly, but got lazy about it.
Thanks to everyone

I'll be back with the runoff #'s in 5 or 6 hours.

 

[Ez Rider]

I believe being too close to the light was the main culprit. I raised the light to 24", and haven't seen any more spots/burns on the affected plants. The plants color is improving too. These plants seem to be insisting on a small yield in any event. I'm only ay day 27 of 12/12, but it's pretty obvious that one strain is quite a bit heavier than the other. I'm hoping the little girls will EXPLODE, but I'm not holding my breath.


The larger plants haven't shown any signs of trouble, except for a little paleness on the middle row. These plants have the light at ~17" above the canopy, with no room to raise the lights. Fucking tent. It's only the girls directly under the bulb, that show a little pale(see pic).

Foreground is nice green front row, middle is plant directly under bulb, back is also nice and green. These are the larger plants. Nice thick flowers all around too:yay:

The size/strain difference is really noticeable. The big girls are ~3.5', the little ones more like 2'.
Since raising the light, I've stuck with regular feeding strength, and everything's been fine. From now on, I'll have to really work at keeping the lights 24" from the canopy.